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| Mission [message #360753] |
Sat, 12 December 2020 16:59  |
LNelson
Messages: 335
Registered: December 2008
Location: Springfield, MO
Karma: 0
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So in my previous thread about painting cabinets and generators, I took at the link posted to the E-II that had all the solar, etc. I was pretty impressed with the ability to run everything from that system. However.....
I consider that if I want to keep my wife happy, if I can cool the coach down at night by running the airconditioning for a few hours courtesy of a genset, then we can sleep away with the windows open. I grew up in tents and pickup campers so to me having to plug-in is silly. When I watched that video yesterday, I thought about some of the decisions made like all electric. I consider my mission to get away from civilization. The GMC needs to get me there and shelter me from the elements, most during the sleeping hours. We don't spend much time inside during the day, unless it is pounding rain, even then I prefer to sit under the awning. I consider that I have three sources of fuel on board. Gasoline for running the engine and the genset. Second is propane. For us, a little goes a long way. It runs the fridge in silence, sucks minimal 12volt power. This fuel also fuels a cooking appliance, even a furnace. And C, I have battery power to run the fridge, some lighting, and some entertainment goodies. My using propane I feel I have eliminated a great load of solar power / battery storage requirements. I have never understood the "all electric" school of thought, in RV's OR Boats.
I am going to install my 3 125w panels on the roof, get my 6kw running smoothly (it runs okay now, just noisy), add two more 6v golf cart lead acid batteries, and...fill up the propane tank and feel that my mission will be successful.
I learn a lot from others. Your "mission" might be different from mine. I am even thinking of finding a gas light. Both my slide in pickup campers had those. (But back then we also kept warm by turning a clay flower pot upside on over a gas burner on "low").....
Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT
[Updated on: Sat, 12 December 2020 17:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mission [message #360754 is a reply to message #360753] |
Sat, 12 December 2020 17:43  |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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When we tent camped, we had some artic rated sleeping bags that zipped
together. The kids had mummy bags, also cold weather rated. We slept on
ensolite pads, then air mattresses. We then migrated to a pickup slide in
10 foot cab over camper on my 1969 Dodge Pickup. No furnace, so we used the
flower pot trick until we got a carbon monoxide detector in the camper. It
went off after I lit the flower pot setup. Never did that again. Migrated
to a tow behind travel trailer behind my Dodge, then upgraded to a cab over
motor home on a Dodge chassis. It had all the bells and whistles, furnace,
3 burner stove with oven, on-board back up batteries, 3 way fridge. But no
onboard generator. Sat a 1500 watt Kawasaki gen set on the back bumper. Had
to be careful not to overload that one. Then came the GMC. The rest is
history. It does everything we ever need. No solar, no T.V. no external
internet. No big stereo. We enjoy our GMC friends when we camp. Spend most
daylight hours away from the coach. How we roll. Your experiences will
vary. But, if you are using that flower pot heating trick, my advice would
be to discontinue it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 3:00 PM Larry Nelson via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> So in my previous thread about painting cabinets and generators, I took at
> the link posted to the E-II that had all the solar, etc. I was pretty
> impressed with the ability to run everything from that system. However.....
>
> I consider that if I want to my my wife happy, if I can cool the coach
> down at night by running the airconditioning for a few hours courtesy of a
> genset, then we can sleep away with the windows open. I grew up in tents
> and pickup campers so to me having to plug is silly. When I watched that
> video yesterday, I thought about some of the decisions made like all
> electric. I consider my mission to get away from civilization. The GMC
> needs to
> get me there and shelter me from the elements, most during the sleeping
> hours. We don't spend much time inside during the day, unless it is pounding
> rain, even then I prefer to sit under the awning. I consider that I have
> three sources of fuel on board. Gasoline for running the engine and the
> genset. Second is propane. For us, a little goes a long way. It runs the
> fridge in silence, sucks minimal 12volt power. This fuel also fuels a
> cooking appliance, even a furnace. And C, I have battery power to run the
> fridge, some lighting, and some entertainment goodies. My using propane I
> feel I have eliminated a great load of solar power / battery storage
> requirements. I have never understood the "all electric" school of thought,
> in
> RV's OR Boats.
>
> I am going to install my 3 125w panels on the roof, get my 6kw running
> smoothly (it runs okay now, just noisy), add two more 6v golf cart lead acid
> batteries, and...fill up the propane tank and feel that my mission will be
> successful.
>
> I learn a lot from others. Your "mission" might be different from mine. I
> am even thinking of finding a gas light. Both my slide in pickup campers had
> those. (But back then we also kept warm by turning a clay flower pot
> upside on over a gas burner on "low").....
> --
> Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
> Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
> now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: Mission [message #360755 is a reply to message #360753] |
Sat, 12 December 2020 18:01 |
cadelec
Messages: 303
Registered: September 2011
Location: Brisbane Australia
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Larry
the all electric thing may be because this is in australia
when we import these to australia we have to remove all Gas appliances and upgrade them to Australian standards
we also have to rewire the coach here australia runs on 240 volt at 50 hz also these were origanlly wired with solid single strand wiring
our wiring standards here require replacing the wire with multistrand cable capable of up to 500 volts insulation
going all electric helps with both the gas and electric problems
Trevor
Brisbane Australia
Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project
[Updated on: Sat, 12 December 2020 18:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Mission [message #360761 is a reply to message #360755] |
Sat, 12 December 2020 20:00 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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cadelec wrote on Sat, 12 December 2020 17:01Larry
the all electric thing may be because this is in australia
when we import these to australia we have to remove all Gas appliances and upgrade them to Australian standards
we also have to rewire the coach here australia runs on 240 volt at 50 hz also these were origanlly wired with solid single strand wiring
our wiring standards here require replacing the wire with multistrand cable capable of up to 500 volts insulation
going all electric helps with both the gas and electric problems
The 12/2 in our coaches is 600 volt rated, just for your information. The NEC didn't allow stranded in RV's, solid was required. Properly installed solid should never cause a problem. The optimum word here is 'properly'.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mission [message #360766 is a reply to message #360758] |
Sun, 13 December 2020 02:26 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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Senior Member |
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On 13.12.20 01:14, James Hupy via Gmclist wrote:
> Don't know if I had been mis-informed or what, but their rules on
> importing vehicles sure sound very restrictive to me.
For Germany the rules are also fairly strict. You need new gas
installation. For the trip over the Atlantic you need to remove the LPG
tank. ALL old A/Cs have to be removed. Not sure about the requirements
for electric wiring.
--
Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
'76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
'73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mission [message #360770 is a reply to message #360769] |
Sun, 13 December 2020 09:44 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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Fortunately, most of the RV's that had aluminum wiring in them have taken themselves off the road. Remember that debacle when the price of copper skyrocketed?
Hal is right regarding the NEC and our coaches (if it has the word “HOME” in it, the NEC claims it), and then there’s the section that calls out how you need to terminate stranded wire, which is not practical in a motorhome.
I am quite pleased with how the romex in my coach has held up…. at least where it was properly installed.
We have the solid copper romex solution because of battling bureaucrats as opposed to what was needed, and once the standards people get their fangs into it, good luck getting them out.
Final note, while cost may have been a small part of the decision to use aluminum windings in the Onan, their literature from the period calls it a feature. Aluminum wire coils make a higher BL factor (Tesla/Meters). It’s why many high end loudspeakers use aluminum voice coils, even when lower mass is not a consideration (subwoofer).
Aluminum is a real mother dog to terminate correctly, which will easily offset any cost advantage in applications with less than a few dozen pounds of the stuff.
Dolph
DE AD0LF
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 26’ ex-PalmBeach
Howell EFI & EBL, Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission
“The Aluminum and Fiberglass Mistress”
|[ ]~~~[][ ][] \
"--OO--[]---O-"
> On Dec 13, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Matt Colie via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Hal StClair wrote on Sat, 12 December 2020 21:00
>> The 12/2 in our coaches is 600 volt rated, just for your information. The NEC didn't allow stranded in RV's, solid was required. Properly
>> installed solid should never cause a problem. The optimum word here is 'properly'.
>> Hal
>
> I personally find this application of the NEC code humorous. As Gerry Work remarked the one time I got to hear him "Think of the GMC as a 40yo truck
> carrying a 40yo house that has been in a 40 year long earthquake." (May not be an accurate quote, but you get the idea.
>
> Now, why do you suppose that both SAE and US Coast Guard require that all wiring be stranded? Could it be vibration? All of the 120VAC wire I have
> put in Chaumière has been stranded (and tinned because that is what I stock).
>
> I am going to have to find my NFPA - NEC book and look that one up. I would bet it is just a misinterpretation of some section about residential
> installations.
>
> Mobile Homes use wiring devices that are frightening to me. They self boxed devices that you just shove the romex into and push the box into the
> pre-cut hole in the masonite and call it done.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Mission [message #360777 is a reply to message #360770] |
Sun, 13 December 2020 10:45 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Aluminum makes good aircraft skin, and beer cans. And foil to wrap
leftovers in. But, electrical conductors? Not so much.
Jim Hupy
Salem,Oregon
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020, 7:45 AM Dolph Santorine via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Fortunately, most of the RV's that had aluminum wiring in them have taken
> themselves off the road. Remember that debacle when the price of copper
> skyrocketed?
>
> Hal is right regarding the NEC and our coaches (if it has the word “HOME”
> in it, the NEC claims it), and then there’s the section that calls out how
> you need to terminate stranded wire, which is not practical in a motorhome.
>
> I am quite pleased with how the romex in my coach has held up…. at least
> where it was properly installed.
>
> We have the solid copper romex solution because of battling bureaucrats as
> opposed to what was needed, and once the standards people get their fangs
> into it, good luck getting them out.
>
> Final note, while cost may have been a small part of the decision to use
> aluminum windings in the Onan, their literature from the period calls it a
> feature. Aluminum wire coils make a higher BL factor (Tesla/Meters). It’s
> why many high end loudspeakers use aluminum voice coils, even when lower
> mass is not a consideration (subwoofer).
>
> Aluminum is a real mother dog to terminate correctly, which will easily
> offset any cost advantage in applications with less than a few dozen pounds
> of the stuff.
>
>
> Dolph
>
> DE AD0LF
>
> Wheeling, West Virginia
>
> 1977 26’ ex-PalmBeach
> Howell EFI & EBL, Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission
>
> “The Aluminum and Fiberglass Mistress”
>
> |[ ]~~~[][ ][] \
> "--OO--[]---O-"
>
>> On Dec 13, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Matt Colie via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hal StClair wrote on Sat, 12 December 2020 21:00
>>> The 12/2 in our coaches is 600 volt rated, just for your information.
> The NEC didn't allow stranded in RV's, solid was required. Properly
>>> installed solid should never cause a problem. The optimum word here is
> 'properly'.
>>> Hal
>>
>> I personally find this application of the NEC code humorous. As Gerry
> Work remarked the one time I got to hear him "Think of the GMC as a 40yo
> truck
>> carrying a 40yo house that has been in a 40 year long earthquake." (May
> not be an accurate quote, but you get the idea.
>>
>> Now, why do you suppose that both SAE and US Coast Guard require that
> all wiring be stranded? Could it be vibration? All of the 120VAC wire I
> have
>> put in Chaumière has been stranded (and tinned because that is what I
> stock).
>>
>> I am going to have to find my NFPA - NEC book and look that one up. I
> would bet it is just a misinterpretation of some section about residential
>> installations.
>>
>> Mobile Homes use wiring devices that are frightening to me. They self
> boxed devices that you just shove the romex into and push the box into the
>> pre-cut hole in the masonite and call it done.
>>
>> Matt
>> --
>> Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL,
> GMCES
>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum
> Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>> SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: Mission [message #360781 is a reply to message #360769] |
Sun, 13 December 2020 14:04 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Matt Colie wrote on Sun, 13 December 2020 07:43Hal StClair wrote on Sat, 12 December 2020 21:00The 12/2 in our coaches is 600 volt rated, just for your information. The NEC didn't allow stranded in RV's, solid was required. Properly installed solid should never cause a problem. The optimum word here is 'properly'.
Hal
I personally find this application of the NEC code humorous. As Gerry Work remarked the one time I got to hear him "Think of the GMC as a 40yo truck carrying a 40yo house that has been in a 40 year long earthquake." (May not be an accurate quote, but you get the idea.
Now, why do you suppose that both SAE and US Coast Guard require that all wiring be stranded? Could it be vibration? All of the 120VAC wire I have put in Chaumière has been stranded (and tinned because that is what I stock).
I am going to have to find my NFPA - NEC book and look that one up. I would bet it is just a misinterpretation of some section about residential installations.
Mobile Homes use wiring devices that are frightening to me. They self boxed devices that you just shove the romex into and push the box into the pre-cut hole in the masonite and call it done.
Matt
It isn't a misinterpretation of the code. Boat cable is listed for wet locations, NM-B (Romex) isn't.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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