Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Inverter for Microwave
| Inverter for Microwave [message #360602] |
Mon, 07 December 2020 18:58  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Does anyone have a recommendation for an inverter that will power the microwave + a little? I'd prefer quality over price and I don't need much as I still have golf cart lead acid batteries in the back, so no need to power the Las Vegas Strip.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: Inverter for Microwave [message #360615 is a reply to message #360609] |
Tue, 08 December 2020 12:04  |
mghamms
Messages: 466
Registered: March 2016
Location: Ware, Massachusetts
Karma: 2
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What about charging?
I would look at a inverter charger to make things simple.
Install next to your breaker box and wire it into the outlets you want to power.
Use heavy DC wire and near the battery.
I think I used 14ft each red and black 00 multi-strand wire.
I've got a bigger version of this:
Tripp Lite 1250W PowerVerter RV Inverter/Charger with Hardwire Input/Output
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
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| Re: Inverter for Microwave [message #360620 is a reply to message #360602] |
Tue, 08 December 2020 15:45 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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+1 on the inverter/charger option... We have one and would not consider anything else as the features such as power share, equalization charge function and bulk charging are very nice to have.
Also, if you plan on having the coach for a while and spending a little extra for quality as you say, I would go for an inverter/charger that can support lithium charging in case you decide to go that way in the future....
I have my eye on one of the Victron inverter/chargers that were mentioned in that presentation by Jerry Works I saw someone post up here recently....
http://gmcws.org/blog/lithium-battery-presentation-gmcws-2019-fall-rally/
I believe they come in 2K and 3K watt versions.... 2K would probably be adequate for what you are planning, but again, if your plans are to have the coach for a while, the difference in price between the 2K and the 3K is not all that much....
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: Inverter for Microwave [message #360624 is a reply to message #360602] |
Wed, 09 December 2020 06:59 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Just some info on the TrippLite Powerverter series.
We used a number of these at radio tower sites to provide backup 120VAC power from batteries during power outages. They are a nice all-in-one package with automatic transfer switch. They will also provide extended higher power than rated output for short term loads.
-However they are not pure sine-wave output while in inverter mode. This was not a concern to us as all the "expensive sensitive electronics" they were powering had switch-mode power supplies. Not sure what "sensitive electronics" all the RVer's are worried about, but this was over $100K in simulcast First-Responder communications equipment.
-They will not properly charge a "loaded battery". A loaded battery is what we have in our coaches. The converter charges the battery while also providing power to the other 12V house appliances (lights, furnace, fridge, water pump etc). The Tripplite expects to see only a battery and charges based on voltage and output current. I confirmed this with Tripplite and so we installed a 120V to 12VDC power supply to run the 12V equipment.
I suspect if you were to load the battery, the Tripplite charger system would read the higher current as indicating the battery was still charging. I never asked about this.
-It also is not rated to charge a LiFePo4 battery (unless I missed that on their website)
Here is a pure sine wave Inverter/Charger/Transfer switch that has a mode to charge a loaded battery and can charge LiFePo4 as well has a solar charger input. Note that batteries are best charged Unloaded.
https://samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=605
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter for Microwave [message #360629 is a reply to message #360628] |
Wed, 09 December 2020 09:21 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Some microwave and inductive cooktops are very sensitive to the waveform
(shape). Not all pure sinewave advertised inverters will do the job. These
appliances control output by changing the trigger point on the wave and
duty-cycle, not just the duty-cycle. If the waveform does not contain the
trigger point the unit does not work properly.
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:11 AM Matt Colie via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I have a different beef with Tripp-lite.
>
> I too have used them as a supplier for inverters and line conditioners
> over the years.
>
> Not all that long ago I bought a UPS for a rather critical application
> (our own housenet). As expected, it lasted about 5 years before it failed
> the
> regular test because the battery in it was shot. So, you replace the
> gelcell, right? Well, it was a bear to decase and when I did, I broke a
> connector. (This should not happen!) I contacted Tripp-lite to ask about
> a replacement connector and the reply was that the unit was never intended
> to be serviced and no information would be provided. This was not a cheap
> unit. It was and still is the last Tripp-lite anything I have purchased.
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL,
> GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum
> Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter for Microwave [message #360634 is a reply to message #360629] |
Wed, 09 December 2020 10:35 |
mghamms
Messages: 466
Registered: March 2016
Location: Ware, Massachusetts
Karma: 2
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The trip-lite I bought is a modified wave form. Works the microwave and TV no problem.
The only thing that didn't work was a new electric blanket. The have a safety device on the plug that for some reason wants to see a sine wave.
So I bought one that coverts ac to dc. little stupid to change dc to ac and back to dc but it works.
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
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| Re: Inverter for Microwave [message #360635 is a reply to message #360602] |
Wed, 09 December 2020 10:45 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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While I have not looked recently, I want to say some of the Victron inverters have a function where it monitors the incoming power supply (say from your genset) and if it senses the load is high, it will automictically reduce the current being consumed to charge the batteries. Then, if needed, it will actually augment the generator by adding additional power pulled from the batteries...
A nice feature, particularly if you have a smaller 4K genset as our coach does...
Not sure if that is a feature offered by others, but from what I remember, Victron was the only inverter I saw when researching this a while back...
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter for Microwave [message #360637 is a reply to message #360628] |
Wed, 09 December 2020 10:39 |
Marsh Wilkes
Messages: 155
Registered: January 2004
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Back in the 90's I bought a Tripp-lite inverter for my service truck.
I planed to use it for charging drill batteries and running a florescent
light. The inverter promptly burned up a new Skill charger, I called
Tripp-lite,
they said tuff and by the way don't try to run a florescent light with it. I
called
Skill they replaced the charger even though I told them what happened. Turns
out it was a square wave inverter, not even a modified square wave, which
manufacturers have the audacity to call modified sine wave inverters. I
avoid
Tripp-lite like the plague! Running the microwave with a good sine wave
inverter
should be possible, someone knows what ovens and inverters will play well
together,
I don't, wish I could be of more help.
Marsh (rarely post) Wilkes
Perry Florida
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie via Gmclist
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 10:10 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Cc: Matt Colie
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Inverter for Microwave
I have a different beef with Tripp-lite.
I too have used them as a supplier for inverters and line conditioners over
the years.
Not all that long ago I bought a UPS for a rather critical application (our
own housenet). As expected, it lasted about 5 years before it failed the
regular test because the battery in it was shot. So, you replace the
gelcell, right? Well, it was a bear to decase and when I did, I broke a
connector. (This should not happen!) I contacted Tripp-lite to ask about a
replacement connector and the reply was that the unit was never intended
to be serviced and no information would be provided. This was not a cheap
unit. It was and still is the last Tripp-lite anything I have purchased.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes
with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter for Microwave [message #360641 is a reply to message #360635] |
Wed, 09 December 2020 11:12 |
Olly Schmidt
Messages: 1265
Registered: February 2014
Location: Germany and Scottsville, ...
Karma: 8
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On 09.12.20 17:45, Mark Sawyer via Gmclist wrote:
> While I have not looked recently, I want to say some of the Victron inverters have a function where it monitors the incoming power supply (say from
> your genset) and if it senses the load is high, it will automictically reduce the current being consumed to charge the batteries. Then, if needed, it
> will actually augment the generator by adding additional power pulled from the batteries...
>
> A nice feature, particularly if you have a smaller 4K genset as our coach does...
I have a Victron Energy in my 23' and love it. You can specify what the
maximum load to the outside should be (between 1 and 16A on my model),
and it will supply the additional need from the battery. This is great
especially on campgrounds with limitations on how much load you can put
on their outlets. Those few seconds a lot of stuff needs a higher load
is taken care of by the inverter, and after that, the batteries are no
longer taxed. I like it a lot.
--
Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP KeyID: 0x4196BF22
'76a 26' Eleganza II - Virginia, US
'73 23' Sequoia - Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
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Best regards
Olly Schmidt
PGP Key ID: 0x18a9 3a1f 4196 bf22
'76a Eleganza II, VA
'73 Sequoia, SH, Germany
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter for Microwave [message #360651 is a reply to message #360635] |
Wed, 09 December 2020 12:56 |
Zandr Milewski
Messages: 12
Registered: September 2020
Karma: -1
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Junior Member |
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The 1kw Kisae I have in my Westfalia does half of that, anyway. It will
reduce charging to stay below a pre-set limit on shore power current.
Load sharing between shore power and battery is harder, but doesn't seem
terribly likely in our use case..
On 12/9/20 08:45, Mark Sawyer via Gmclist wrote:
> While I have not looked recently, I want to say some of the Victron inverters have a function where it monitors the incoming power supply (say from
> your genset) and if it senses the load is high, it will automictically reduce the current being consumed to charge the batteries. Then, if needed, it
> will actually augment the generator by adding additional power pulled from the batteries...
>
> A nice feature, particularly if you have a smaller 4K genset as our coach does...
>
> Not sure if that is a feature offered by others, but from what I remember, Victron was the only inverter I saw when researching this a while back...
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter for Microwave [message #360659 is a reply to message #360637] |
Wed, 09 December 2020 18:12 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
Karma: 10
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Marsh Wilkes wrote on Wed, 09 December 2020 11:39I called Skill they replaced the charger even though I told them what happened. Turns out it was a square wave inverter, not even a modified square wave, which manufacturers have the audacity to call modified sine wave inverters. I avoid Tripp-lite like the plague! Running the microwave with a good sine wave inverter should be possible, someone knows what ovens and inverters will play well together, I don't, wish I could be of more help.
In general people tend to attribute too much importance to square / modified sine / sine inverter specifications. Most electronic devices do not care in any way whatsoever as to the incoming mains waveform because those devices have internal power supplies that immediately rectify the incoming power to DC and then process that DC either in a linear regulator or conversely in a switching supply that chops the DC back up into a form (either DC or AC) they need to use. Those experiencing problems with inverters not getting along with the electrical loads connected to them often experience these problems because of a poorly designed inverter control system, a poorly designed switching power supply in the load, or both. Inverters and switching power supplies have processors that figure out how aggressively to fire their power semiconductors and if these processors are cheap or poorly implemented then they see the instantaneous inrush load and consider it an overcurrent condition and trip offline rather than looking at dI/dt trends. Or they see sagging voltage and overcompensate for it by firing their output semiconductors too aggressively which results in an overvoltage condition.
The square/sine distinction often only results in the load making electroacoustic racket such as whine or buzzing which is only cosmetic in nature.
As with most any product the more expensive ones will have better implementations of control circuits that don't misbehave with overcurrent trips or overvoltage excursions. Sine vs square doesn't have a whole lot to do with it in my opinion based on my 35 years of electrical engineering experience.
Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter for Microwave [message #360676 is a reply to message #360659] |
Thu, 10 December 2020 02:22 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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That is true for a lot of systems but in microwaves and inductive cooktops,
some power supplies rely on moving the trigger point up or down the sine
wave to control the output. I have a cooktop that will not run on most
inverters even some that say they are sine wave.
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4:13 PM Jim Miller via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Marsh Wilkes wrote on Wed, 09 December 2020 11:39
>> I called Skill they replaced the charger even though I told them what
> happened. Turns out it was a square wave inverter, not even a modified
>> square wave, which manufacturers have the audacity to call modified sine
> wave inverters. I avoid Tripp-lite like the plague! Running the microwave
>> with a good sine wave inverter should be possible, someone knows what
> ovens and inverters will play well together, I don't, wish I could be of
> more
>> help.
>
> In general people tend to attribute too much importance to square /
> modified sine / sine inverter specifications. Most electronic devices do
> not care
> in any way whatsoever as to the incoming mains waveform because those
> devices have internal power supplies that immediately rectify the incoming
> power
> to DC and then process that DC either in a linear regulator or conversely
> in a switching supply that chops the DC back up into a form (either DC or
> AC) they need to use. Those experiencing problems with inverters not
> getting along with the electrical loads connected to them often experience
> these
> problems because of a poorly designed inverter control system, a poorly
> designed switching power supply in the load, or both. Inverters and
> switching
> power supplies have processors that figure out how aggressively to fire
> their power semiconductors and if these processors are cheap or poorly
> implemented then they see the instantaneous inrush load and consider it an
> overcurrent condition and trip offline rather than looking at dI/dt trends.
> Or they see sagging voltage and overcompensate for it by firing their
> output semiconductors too aggressively which results in an overvoltage
> condition.
>
> The square/sine distinction often only results in the load making
> electroacoustic racket such as whine or buzzing which is only cosmetic in
> nature.
>
> As with most any product the more expensive ones will have better
> implementations of control circuits that don't misbehave with overcurrent
> trips or
> overvoltage excursions. Sine vs square doesn't have a whole lot to do with
> it in my opinion based on my 35 years of electrical engineering
> experience.
>
>
> --
> Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza II
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter for Microwave [message #360677 is a reply to message #360633] |
Thu, 10 December 2020 07:39 |
Jp Benson
Messages: 649
Registered: October 2011
Location: Fla
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Vern Crawford wrote on Wed, 09 December 2020 10:09Larry,
Keep in mind that microwave ovens are marketed based on their output
wattage power.
Thus a 700W output microwave actually draws about 1100W of power. An 1100W
output microwave draws about 1700W.
The fan, power supply and magnetron draw all that extra power. As pointed out in a recent thread most microwaves run at full power and use an off/on cycle for lower power settings. Microwaves with an inverter power supply are supposed to run continuously at lower power for lower settings.
So yesterday I tested my new Gastrorag 1300 Watt induction cooktop powered by the 1500 watt Aims "Pure Sine Wave" inverter. The cooktop has several power settings ranging from 200 to 1300 watts. At 600 watts and below it used ~800 watts and cycled the power off/on so the average power used matched the setting shown on the cooktop. Power was on continuously at 700 watts and above. Power drawn was ~100 watts above the setting shown on the cooktop. So at max power of 1300 watts the draw was ~1400 watts. The cooktop worked fine at all settings (i.e. the water got hot and then boiled). The cables to the inverter did get warm.
JP
[Updated on: Thu, 10 December 2020 08:04] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Inverter for Microwave [message #360682 is a reply to message #360602] |
Thu, 10 December 2020 10:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I've always used on - line UPSes, and they're all sine wave. All the incoming AC does is provide charge for the batteries, and carry the inverter when they're charged. The supplied equipment never sees a change when the power fails or returns. Consequently it never sees falling voltage or an interruption. A switched UPS must see a failing input to switch to its internal inverter, whose output may eof strange shape(s). Off-line is fine for RV use depending the load, it is never used in critical situations.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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