Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Victron Isolators
| Victron Isolators [message #359608] |
Mon, 19 October 2020 17:30  |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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So I'm considering moving to a higher output alternator on my coach, and was looking into updating my battery isolator along with it, and I came across these:
https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-isolators-and-combiners/argo-fet-battery-isolators
Apparently, unlike most isolators (including the one I currently run) where you see around a .7 volt drop in charging current, the Victron isolators show only around a .1 volt drop. I'm by no means an electrical expert (if it can't e fixed with a hammer, you have an electrical problem) but apparently FET based isolators do not cause a drop in voltage the way a standard diode based isolator does, but will still allow constant charging unlike a switching based isolator....
Anyone running one of these or have any experience with Victron?
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: Victron Isolators [message #359610 is a reply to message #359608] |
Mon, 19 October 2020 17:49  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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The .7 volt drop is unimportant in a GMC as the alternator automatically adjusts for it. If you had a system without remote sensing like a 1 wire alternator, then the voltage drop might be important. Save your money.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Victron Isolators [message #359613 is a reply to message #359608] |
Mon, 19 October 2020 18:08 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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|
Mark,
I'm curious about why you want to replace the isolator with a more
expensive, more electronically complicated one? If the rated current
capacity of your current isolator is equivalent to or greater than that of
your planned alternator, the 0.7 VDC forward drop of the diodes should not
be a significant concern -- few isolators fail even after 40+ years. Of
course, your replacement alternator MUST have a voltage feedback monitoring
capability. Unless, of course, you supplement, or replace the isolator
with a combiner.
You specifically mentioned Victron, which seems to dominate the MOSFET
isolator market. There's an interesting statement in their product
description: "Battery isolators may not be the best way to go if you are
designing a new system...". They don't go on to specify the "best way",
but I suspect it might be an isolator because of its bidirectional
capabilities. At any rate, if you compare the prices of Victron isolators
and combiners, you'll find the combiners to be more economical -- about 1/2
the cost.
Was it me, I'd keep the old isolator and hang a combiner across its battery
terminals. I personally have run only combiners for about 10 years,
specifically Yandinas. I did have a couple of the 100A units fail, at
least once apparently from lightning. I've run the 135A for about 5 years
with no further trouble. (It's interesting to note that the C100 Yandina
was originally labelled the C50. Competitive pressure from similarly rated
products forced Yandina Marie Foster, inventor of the combiner, to
re-designate them as C100 -- probably unwisely.)
Ken H.
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 6:31 PM Mark Sawyer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> So I'm considering moving to a higher output alternator on my coach, and
> was looking into updating my battery isolator along with it, and I came
> across these:
>
>
> https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-isolators-and-combiners/argo-fet-battery-isolators
>
> Apparently, unlike most isolators (including the one I currently run)
> where you see around a .7 volt drop in charging current, the Victron
> isolators
> show only around a .1 volt drop. I'm by no means an electrical expert (if
> it can't e fixed with a hammer, you have an electrical problem) but
> apparently FET based isolators do not cause a drop in voltage the way a
> standard diode based isolator does, but will still allow constant charging
> unlike a switching based isolator....
>
> Anyone running one of these or have any experience with Victron?
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Victron Isolators [message #359614 is a reply to message #359613] |
Mon, 19 October 2020 18:11 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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OOoops! "but I suspect it might be an isolator because of its
bidirectional capabilities. " should, of course, have read "...a combiner
because..."!
Ken H.
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 7:08 PM Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Mark,
>
> I'm curious about why you want to replace the isolator with a more
> expensive, more electronically complicated one? If the rated current
> capacity of your current isolator is equivalent to or greater than that of
> your planned alternator, the 0.7 VDC forward drop of the diodes should not
> be a significant concern -- few isolators fail even after 40+ years. Of
> course, your replacement alternator MUST have a voltage feedback monitoring
> capability. Unless, of course, you supplement, or replace the isolator
> with a combiner.
>
> You specifically mentioned Victron, which seems to dominate the MOSFET
> isolator market. There's an interesting statement in their product
> description: "Battery isolators may not be the best way to go if you are
> designing a new system...". They don't go on to specify the "best way",
> but I suspect it might be an isolator because of its bidirectional
> capabilities. At any rate, if you compare the prices of Victron isolators
> and combiners, you'll find the combiners to be more economical -- about 1/2
> the cost.
>
> Was it me, I'd keep the old isolator and hang a combiner across its
> battery terminals. I personally have run only combiners for about 10
> years, specifically Yandinas. I did have a couple of the 100A units fail,
> at least once apparently from lightning. I've run the 135A for about 5
> years with no further trouble. (It's interesting to note that the C100
> Yandina was originally labelled the C50. Competitive pressure from
> similarly rated products forced Yandina Marie Foster, inventor of the
> combiner, to re-designate them as C100 -- probably unwisely.)
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 6:31 PM Mark Sawyer via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> So I'm considering moving to a higher output alternator on my coach, and
>> was looking into updating my battery isolator along with it, and I came
>> across these:
>>
>>
>> https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-isolators-and-combiners/argo-fet-battery-isolators
>>
>> Apparently, unlike most isolators (including the one I currently run)
>> where you see around a .7 volt drop in charging current, the Victron
>> isolators
>> show only around a .1 volt drop. I'm by no means an electrical expert
>> (if it can't e fixed with a hammer, you have an electrical problem) but
>> apparently FET based isolators do not cause a drop in voltage the way a
>> standard diode based isolator does, but will still allow constant charging
>> unlike a switching based isolator....
>>
>> Anyone running one of these or have any experience with Victron?
>> --
>> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
>> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
>> Howell Injection,
>> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
>> Fort Worth, TX
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Victron Isolators [message #359617 is a reply to message #359613] |
Mon, 19 October 2020 20:13 |
Marsh Wilkes
Messages: 155
Registered: January 2004
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Ken,
To steal a thread.
Did you get your AC taken care of?
What was wrong?
Marsh Wilkes
Perry Fl
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson via Gmclist
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 7:08 PM
To: GMC Mail List
Cc: Ken Henderson ; Mark Sawyer
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Victron Isolators
Mark,
I'm curious about why you want to replace the isolator with a more
expensive, more electronically complicated one? If the rated current
capacity of your current isolator is equivalent to or greater than that of
your planned alternator, the 0.7 VDC forward drop of the diodes should not
be a significant concern -- few isolators fail even after 40+ years. Of
course, your replacement alternator MUST have a voltage feedback monitoring
capability. Unless, of course, you supplement, or replace the isolator
with a combiner.
You specifically mentioned Victron, which seems to dominate the MOSFET
isolator market. There's an interesting statement in their product
description: "Battery isolators may not be the best way to go if you are
designing a new system...". They don't go on to specify the "best way",
but I suspect it might be an isolator because of its bidirectional
capabilities. At any rate, if you compare the prices of Victron isolators
and combiners, you'll find the combiners to be more economical -- about 1/2
the cost.
Was it me, I'd keep the old isolator and hang a combiner across its battery
terminals. I personally have run only combiners for about 10 years,
specifically Yandinas. I did have a couple of the 100A units fail, at
least once apparently from lightning. I've run the 135A for about 5 years
with no further trouble. (It's interesting to note that the C100 Yandina
was originally labelled the C50. Competitive pressure from similarly rated
products forced Yandina Marie Foster, inventor of the combiner, to
re-designate them as C100 -- probably unwisely.)
Ken H.
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 6:31 PM Mark Sawyer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> So I'm considering moving to a higher output alternator on my coach, and
> was looking into updating my battery isolator along with it, and I came
> across these:
>
>
> https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-isolators-and-combiners/argo-fet-battery-isolators
>
> Apparently, unlike most isolators (including the one I currently run)
> where you see around a .7 volt drop in charging current, the Victron
> isolators
> show only around a .1 volt drop. I'm by no means an electrical expert (if
> it can't e fixed with a hammer, you have an electrical problem) but
> apparently FET based isolators do not cause a drop in voltage the way a
> standard diode based isolator does, but will still allow constant charging
> unlike a switching based isolator....
>
> Anyone running one of these or have any experience with Victron?
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Victron Isolators [message #359620 is a reply to message #359617] |
Mon, 19 October 2020 21:33 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Nope, haven't touched it again ... yet ... maybe some day?
Ken H.
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 9:13 PM Marsh Wilkes via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Hi Ken,
>
> To steal a thread.
> Did you get your AC taken care of?
> What was wrong?
>
> Marsh Wilkes
> Perry Fl
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Henderson via Gmclist
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 7:08 PM
> To: GMC Mail List
> Cc: Ken Henderson ; Mark Sawyer
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Victron Isolators
>
> Mark,
>
> I'm curious about why you want to replace the isolator with a more
> expensive, more electronically complicated one? If the rated current
> capacity of your current isolator is equivalent to or greater than that of
> your planned alternator, the 0.7 VDC forward drop of the diodes should not
> be a significant concern -- few isolators fail even after 40+ years. Of
> course, your replacement alternator MUST have a voltage feedback monitoring
> capability. Unless, of course, you supplement, or replace the isolator
> with a combiner.
>
> You specifically mentioned Victron, which seems to dominate the MOSFET
> isolator market. There's an interesting statement in their product
> description: "Battery isolators may not be the best way to go if you are
> designing a new system...". They don't go on to specify the "best way",
> but I suspect it might be an isolator because of its bidirectional
> capabilities. At any rate, if you compare the prices of Victron isolators
> and combiners, you'll find the combiners to be more economical -- about 1/2
> the cost.
>
> Was it me, I'd keep the old isolator and hang a combiner across its battery
> terminals. I personally have run only combiners for about 10 years,
> specifically Yandinas. I did have a couple of the 100A units fail, at
> least once apparently from lightning. I've run the 135A for about 5 years
> with no further trouble. (It's interesting to note that the C100 Yandina
> was originally labelled the C50. Competitive pressure from similarly rated
> products forced Yandina Marie Foster, inventor of the combiner, to
> re-designate them as C100 -- probably unwisely.)
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 6:31 PM Mark Sawyer via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> So I'm considering moving to a higher output alternator on my coach, and
>> was looking into updating my battery isolator along with it, and I came
>> across these:
>>
>>
>>
> https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-isolators-and-combiners/argo-fet-battery-isolators
>>
>> Apparently, unlike most isolators (including the one I currently run)
>> where you see around a .7 volt drop in charging current, the Victron
>> isolators
>> show only around a .1 volt drop. I'm by no means an electrical expert
> (if
>> it can't e fixed with a hammer, you have an electrical problem) but
>> apparently FET based isolators do not cause a drop in voltage the way a
>> standard diode based isolator does, but will still allow constant
> charging
>> unlike a switching based isolator....
>>
>> Anyone running one of these or have any experience with Victron?
>> --
>> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
>> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
>> Howell Injection,
>> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
>> Fort Worth, TX
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Victron Isolators [message #359636 is a reply to message #359633] |
Tue, 20 October 2020 09:23 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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|
The combiner can certainly be placed across the batteries at the isolator
with no danger to either. And the battery boost solenoid, mounted below
the isolator at the "sloped" floorboard is not involved in any way.
Ken H.
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 10:01 AM Robert J. Gogan via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I purchased the Yandinas 100 amp combiner years ago because I wanted my
> generator and shore power to charge the motor battery. I was reluctant to
> install it, fearing that it would damage or adversely affect the isolator.
> Glad to hear someone has successfully used the combiner and left the
> isolator in place except for a lightning strike. Does it still allow the
> dash switch to combine the output of both batteries for engine starting in
> an emergency? As far as I can tell, it should work. Was worried that it
> might blow out the combiner if installed across the red leads at the
> isolator.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Victron Isolators [message #360177 is a reply to message #359608] |
Tue, 17 November 2020 10:53 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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Sorry I took so long to get back to this thread... Got busy with work and some other issues with the coach...
So Ken: to answer your question, the coach currently has a 100 amp isolator on it.... And I never even thought far enough to look into changing it out for a combiner... Since I want to go with a larger alternator, I only looked into a larger isolator to go along with it....
I'm actually not super knowledgeable about RV electrical systems... Let me back up and describe the system on my coach, and why I am looking to increase the capacity of the alternator...
So the coach currently has a 4K onan, 4 6volt GC2s... One set in front, one in back by the genset... Instead of the stock buzzbox, the coach has a 2500 watt inverter/charger. There is also a perko switch linking the 2 banks together, an isolator as already mentioned and a 100 amp 10SI alternator.
So the reason for me wanting an upgraded alternator was linked to project to add some additional cooling. The coach has a working dash air,(still running R12 but with an updated Sanden SD7 compressor) and a single 15k btu Atwood rooftop AC in the center roof position.
Being in Texas, I had originally planned to add some additional AC capacity to the rear passenger area to keep my kids cool when on the road, without having to fire up the generator and rooftop ac. The plan was to add an additional evap under the fridge area, with the vents pointed to the dinette area. But the more I thought about it, it seemed like a lot of resources (space, $$ and effort) for an AC that can only be used when on the road.
What I ended up doing, is buying this portable spot cooler:
https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/air-conditioning/commercial-portable-ac/portableairconditioners-spotcooler-etl-approved-796000?infoParam.campa ignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhs79BRD0ARIsAC6XpaXpz5tM4f0tGglkxSvjOFqtEaJqsq-q1QuV3jCbn9dAQtdPXK0BGD0aAnqWEALw_wcB
I had switched my propane fridge out for an electric unit a few years ago, and I was able to install this spot cooler in the unused space behind the fridge. It uses the old propane fridge vents to move air over the ac coils, and exhaust the heat outside. It also runs fine on my inverter... Uses about 6-700 watts running. I have a 5" vent in the fridge wall near the door (standard 73 26' layout coach) pointed at the dinette area plumed in to the spot cooler outlet hose.
It's not a huge amount of cooling, but with the dash air on, I can run in the mornings and evenings without firing up the generator and the rooftop unit. It will also stay running on the battery during fuel stops when the engine is shut down, which is kind of nice. And if I need some additional cooling on hot Texas summer days, the 4K onan will run the spot cooler and the rooftop unit simultaneously... And of course I can run both units off of shore power as well. As a bonus, vs a coach with dual rooftop ACs, I was able to leave my front and rear fantastic vents in place.
However, as you may have already figured, it's really maxing out the stock alternator charging when I'm on the road, and I don't really feel comfortable running it for extended periods... So I was looking at changing to maybe a 200 amp alternator... And the current, 100 amp isolator to something larger, along with it.
I welcome any input and am open to suggestions on anything about the current system, or what I am planning with the alternator.
Ken, do you still recommend a combiner over an isolator for what I am running? How about the alternator capacity I am thinking of? Figure 180-200 amp should cover the loads with some excess capacity to spare, without overtaxing the engine or alternator too much. Already running a dual belt alternator pulley.
I'm not set on what alternator to run either... Was looking at some of the upgrades from these guys:
https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/category_3/GM-Alternators.htm
But was also considering adapting a high output alternator out of a late model truck and modifying it to work in my coach...
Again, I would love any thoughts, suggestions or inputs anyone can provide.
Thanks
Mark
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Victron Isolators [message #360178 is a reply to message #360177] |
Tue, 17 November 2020 11:58 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
|
Senior Member |
|
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Mark
We used those in a data center.
The cold air comes out the “snorkel”
Where are you going to put the unit (condenser) to pump the hot air?
Dolph Santorine
DE AD0LF
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
Howell EFI/EBL , Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission
> On Nov 17, 2020, at 11:54 AM, Mark Sawyer via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Sorry I took so long to get back to this thread... Got busy with work and some other issues with the coach...
>
> So Ken: to answer your question, the coach currently has a 100 amp isolator on it.... And I never even thought far enough to look into changing it out
> for a combiner... Since I want to go with a larger alternator, I only looked into a larger isolator to go along with it....
>
> I'm actually not super knowledgeable about RV electrical systems... Let me back up and describe the system on my coach, and why I am looking to
> increase the capacity of the alternator...
>
> So the coach currently has a 4K onan, 4 6volt GC2s... One set in front, one in back by the genset... Instead of the stock buzzbox, the coach has a
> 2500 watt inverter/charger. There is also a perko switch linking the 2 banks together, an isolator as already mentioned and a 100 amp 10SI
> alternator.
>
> So the reason for me wanting an upgraded alternator was linked to project to add some additional cooling. The coach has a working dash air,(still
> running R12 but with an updated Sanden SD7 compressor) and a single 15k btu Atwood rooftop AC in the center roof position.
>
> Being in Texas, I had originally planned to add some additional AC capacity to the rear passenger area to keep my kids cool when on the road, without
> having to fire up the generator and rooftop ac. The plan was to add an additional evap under the fridge area, with the vents pointed to the dinette
> area. But the more I thought about it, it seemed like a lot of resources (space, $$ and effort) for an AC that can only be used when on the road.
>
> What I ended up doing, is buying this portable spot cooler:
>
> https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/air-conditioning/commercial-portable-ac/portableairconditioners-spotcooler-etl-approved-796000?infoParam.campa ignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhs79BRD0ARIsAC6XpaXpz5tM4f0tGglkxSvjOFqtEaJqsq-q1QuV3jCbn9dAQtdPXK0BGD0aAnqWEALw_wcB
>
> I had switched my propane fridge out for an electric unit a few years ago, and I was able to install this spot cooler in the unused space behind the
> fridge. It uses the old propane fridge vents to move air over the ac coils, and exhaust the heat outside. It also runs fine on my inverter... Uses
> about 6-700 watts running. I have a 5" vent in the fridge wall near the door (standard 73 26' layout coach) pointed at the dinette area plumed in to
> the spot cooler outlet hose.
>
> It's not a huge amount of cooling, but with the dash air on, I can run in the mornings and evenings without firing up the generator and the rooftop
> unit. It will also stay running on the battery during fuel stops when the engine is shut down, which is kind of nice. And if I need some additional
> cooling on hot Texas summer days, the 4K onan will run the spot cooler and the rooftop unit simultaneously... And of course I can run both units off
> of shore power as well. As a bonus, vs a coach with dual rooftop ACs, I was able to leave my front and rear fantastic vents in place.
>
> However, as you may have already figured, it's really maxing out the stock alternator charging when I'm on the road, and I don't really feel
> comfortable running it for extended periods... So I was looking at changing to maybe a 200 amp alternator... And the current, 100 amp isolator to
> something larger, along with it.
>
> I welcome any input and am open to suggestions on anything about the current system, or what I am planning with the alternator.
>
> Ken, do you still recommend a combiner over an isolator for what I am running? How about the alternator capacity I am thinking of? Figure 180-200
> amp should cover the loads with some excess capacity to spare, without overtaxing the engine or alternator too much. Already running a dual belt
> alternator pulley.
>
> I'm not set on what alternator to run either... Was looking at some of the upgrades from these guys:
>
> https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/category_3/GM-Alternators.htm
>
> But was also considering adapting a high output alternator out of a late model truck and modifying it to work in my coach...
>
> Again, I would love any thoughts, suggestions or inputs anyone can provide.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: Victron Isolators [message #360180 is a reply to message #359608] |
Tue, 17 November 2020 12:58 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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It's drawing in air from the roof fridge vent, and blowing the hot air out the side fridge vent.... I bolted it down with some rubber isolators under the feet, sealed the side against the wall with some foam rubber so all the hot air is channeled out the side vent. Ran the condensate through a hose out through the floor. It's fairly quiet with the unit behind the double fridge wall.
There is just an on/off switch on the unit... No thermostat or anything, so I leave the switch in the on position on the cooler and control it through a light switch mounted in the compartment under the fridge. I hooked up the light switch by splitting the existing outlet in the fridge compartment with the unswitched side going to the fridge, and the switched side going to the AC.
I thought about remote mounting the on/off switch from the cooler itself on the fridge wall near the door, but did not want to alter the unit in any way while it is still under warranty.
The real drawback to the unit is it is a "single hose" spot cooler.... I could not find a dual hose spot cooler that would fit in that location. Single hose means it is drawing in outside air, using some to run over the condenser, (which is then blown out the side fridge vent) and the rest of the air it pulls in is cooled over the evaporator and blown out into the coach via the 5" vent/hose. On the good side, it puts positive pressure into the coach to keep out exhaust fumes, etc. The bad is as the outside air gets hotter, the cooling capacity drops way off. Basically, it works like your dash unit when it is not on recirculate. Anything over the low 90s, I end up switching on the roof ac and generator anyway, so it is not a huge issue.
Once it is out of warranty, I may see if I can modify the unit to divorce the intake air that runs over the evap from the air going over the condenser. This way it will work like your dash air on recirculate. It will pull in cool air from inside the coach though some sort of intake or return vent, cool it further, and spit that air out into the room instead of tying to cool down hot outside air.
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: Victron Isolators [message #360181 is a reply to message #359608] |
Tue, 17 November 2020 13:31 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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I reread my last post, and it may have been too wordy and confusing, so let me try that again.
I mounted the spot cooler behind my fridge in the fridge compartment with the cold air snorkel blowing out into the room via a vent in the fridge wall by the coach main door. I have an electric fridge, so there is enough room for the spot cooler to fit with a few inches between it and the back of my fridge.
The unit is set up so the fan pulls air in through the roof fridge vent, and blows the hot air out through the side fridge vent. To do this, I sealed up the side of the spot cooler where the hot air comes out against the coach wall with the side fridge vent.
I have the area around my fridge sealed up, so the spot cooler is basically outside the air conditioned space inside the coach.
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Victron Isolators [message #360184 is a reply to message #360177] |
Tue, 17 November 2020 14:29 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mark,
I can only partially answer your questions from experience, but with your
willingness and ability to improvise & experiment, that shouldn't be a
problem. ;-)
The alternators you're considering should certainly handle your load and
they've apparently avoided any mounting problems. My concern would be with
the V-belt drive. I have no experience with double belts, having run
serpentine belts on both the 455 and the 500. Those have performed
perfectly, but I have no idea where to find a reasonably simple and priced
setup for the 455 -- mine was custom from someone else and that on my
Cad500 is my own design. We've got a lot of GMCers running dual V-belts --
they'll advise you whether to expect reasonable performance under twice the
load.
Yandina.com has 200+ Amp combiners, as I'm sure all of the suppliers do. I
tend to recommend those because that's all I've ever used. I was an early
adopter of them and, AFAIK, Yandina Marie Foster, the inventor, was the
only supplier at that time. She (he, at the time) invented it for marine
use on the houseboat/yacht she lived on in Beaufort, SC -- to provide a
little useless information. :-)
Incidentally, there are higher-capacity options to consider vs your
"cooling pack". For example, we had, years ago, a lawyer-GMCer in Alabama
who had no roof air on his personal GMC (his wife, also a lawyer, had her
own personal GMC -- more useless info -- 83 yo's tend to provide that).
He'd had a household unit modified with the evaporator under the sink in
the rear bath of his 23'. I don't know the capacity, but it was probably
15K BTU or better. I no longer remember where he had the condenser and
compressor, but they were concealed somewhere inside (probably to the rear
of the Onan since that's about the only free space).
Please keep us all posted on your progress.
Ken H.
On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 11:53 AM Mark Sawyer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Sorry I took so long to get back to this thread... Got busy with work and
> some other issues with the coach...
>
> So Ken: to answer your question, the coach currently has a 100 amp
> isolator on it.... And I never even thought far enough to look into
> changing it out
> for a combiner... Since I want to go with a larger alternator, I only
> looked into a larger isolator to go along with it....
>
> I'm actually not super knowledgeable about RV electrical systems... Let
> me back up and describe the system on my coach, and why I am looking to
> increase the capacity of the alternator...
>
> So the coach currently has a 4K onan, 4 6volt GC2s... One set in front,
> one in back by the genset... Instead of the stock buzzbox, the coach has a
> 2500 watt inverter/charger. There is also a perko switch linking the 2
> banks together, an isolator as already mentioned and a 100 amp 10SI
> alternator.
>
> So the reason for me wanting an upgraded alternator was linked to project
> to add some additional cooling. The coach has a working dash air,(still
> running R12 but with an updated Sanden SD7 compressor) and a single 15k
> btu Atwood rooftop AC in the center roof position.
>
> Being in Texas, I had originally planned to add some additional AC
> capacity to the rear passenger area to keep my kids cool when on the road,
> without
> having to fire up the generator and rooftop ac. The plan was to add an
> additional evap under the fridge area, with the vents pointed to the dinette
> area. But the more I thought about it, it seemed like a lot of resources
> (space, $$ and effort) for an AC that can only be used when on the road.
>
> What I ended up doing, is buying this portable spot cooler:
>
>
> https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/air-conditioning/commercial-portable-ac/portableairconditioners-spotcooler-etl-approved-796000?infoParam.campa ignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhs79BRD0ARIsAC6XpaXpz5tM4f0tGglkxSvjOFqtEaJqsq-q1QuV3jCbn9dAQtdPXK0BGD0aAnqWEALw_wcB
>
> I had switched my propane fridge out for an electric unit a few years ago,
> and I was able to install this spot cooler in the unused space behind the
> fridge. It uses the old propane fridge vents to move air over the ac
> coils, and exhaust the heat outside. It also runs fine on my inverter...
> Uses
> about 6-700 watts running. I have a 5" vent in the fridge wall near the
> door (standard 73 26' layout coach) pointed at the dinette area plumed in to
> the spot cooler outlet hose.
>
> It's not a huge amount of cooling, but with the dash air on, I can run in
> the mornings and evenings without firing up the generator and the rooftop
> unit. It will also stay running on the battery during fuel stops when the
> engine is shut down, which is kind of nice. And if I need some additional
> cooling on hot Texas summer days, the 4K onan will run the spot cooler and
> the rooftop unit simultaneously... And of course I can run both units off
> of shore power as well. As a bonus, vs a coach with dual rooftop ACs, I
> was able to leave my front and rear fantastic vents in place.
>
> However, as you may have already figured, it's really maxing out the stock
> alternator charging when I'm on the road, and I don't really feel
> comfortable running it for extended periods... So I was looking at
> changing to maybe a 200 amp alternator... And the current, 100 amp
> isolator to
> something larger, along with it.
>
> I welcome any input and am open to suggestions on anything about the
> current system, or what I am planning with the alternator.
>
> Ken, do you still recommend a combiner over an isolator for what I am
> running? How about the alternator capacity I am thinking of? Figure
> 180-200
> amp should cover the loads with some excess capacity to spare, without
> overtaxing the engine or alternator too much. Already running a dual belt
> alternator pulley.
>
> I'm not set on what alternator to run either... Was looking at some of
> the upgrades from these guys:
>
> https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/category_3/GM-Alternators.htm
>
> But was also considering adapting a high output alternator out of a late
> model truck and modifying it to work in my coach...
>
> Again, I would love any thoughts, suggestions or inputs anyone can provide.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Victron Isolators [message #360191 is a reply to message #359608] |
Tue, 17 November 2020 18:41 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Mark,
I can answer with some experience. I did electric upgrades for performance cruisers (retired racing sloops). I was warned by the people that built the alternators that I usually bought that 100A @ ~12v was the limit of a single belt. They had two ways around this. One was a remote regulator that could limit the output at a given set point (these were $$$) and the other was to go to a dual belt. The dual sheave is a very available part and using these on a 455 has been very successful in my case. The 23s have the house bank in the front so very little loss and the 27SI alternator is a very robust machine and will put out over its published rating.
So, if you can mount the alternator you are looking at, going to a dual belt is not any big issue.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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