| Using Lithium house batteries [message #358162] |
Mon, 31 August 2020 17:00  |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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My House batteries are at the end of their life and I need to replace them before the winter traveling season.
A year ago Jerry Work did a presentation at Western States and GMCMI about Modern LiFePO4 lithium batteries with on-board electronic controls for use in our GMC's. Have any of you done this conversion? Which of the three packages did you use? How easy to install? Are you glad you did the Lithium conversion?
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: Using Lithium house batteries [message #358181 is a reply to message #358162] |
Mon, 31 August 2020 21:20  |
JohnS
Messages: 126
Registered: December 2014
Location: Vacaville, CA
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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See my message #356221 dated 29 June 2020.
I installed a Li-BIM early this year, along with a LiFe-Po4 house battery in the rear . Have only been able to make a couple of trips since then but so far am satisfied with it. Particularly like that it will limit the time the alternator will charge a depleted house battery, allowing time for the alternator to cool. Also, when plugged in to shore power, it monitors the engine battery charge state and connects it to the PD-9260 charger.
The Li-BIM has replaced the Isolator, Power Contactor, and Combiner in front, & I left the OEM 60 amp Fuse and Bypass Contactor in back so the original boost function is intact.
A couple of months further in and I am still satisfied with my setup. Had to use the "Boost" function once due to the radio being left on, and it worked ok
John Shutzbaugh, Vacaville, CA, ncserv@aol.com;
78 Buskirk stretch, "What were we thinking?"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Using Lithium house batteries [message #358192 is a reply to message #358162] |
Tue, 01 September 2020 09:31 |
Dave
Messages: 32
Registered: March 2004
Karma: 3
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If you do a lot of dry camping then LiFePO4 lithium batteries are a
great choice. They are lightweight (always a good thing in a GMC).
You can cycle them deep (over 80% of their capacity). They charge
fast while the generator is running (assuming that you have a big
enough charger) so you do not have to run the generator as long to
top the batteries off.
But if you spend most of your time plugged in. Or your GMC spends
most of its time in storage, then LiFePO4 is probably not a good
choice. A set of deep cycle golf-cart batteries are a much better choice.
We use our GMC about six weeks out of the year. Maybe two of those
are dry-camping. I have an electric fridge, inverter (for microwave,
toaster, coffee maker etc.). I have been getting about ten years life
out of each set (4 x 220ah) of golf-cart batteries. I typically use
100Ah/day and run the generator 3-4 hours/day (usually while cooking)
when dry camping.
The key to long battery life is to understand the nature of the
battery that you are using and to keep it within its limits. One of
the best resources I have found on LiFePO4 lithium battery systems is:
http://nordkyndesign.com/category/marine-engineering/electrical/lithium-battery-systems/
This set of articles is targeted toward the marine market but the
issues are pretty much the same when using LiFePO4 batteries in an
RV. I highly recommend reading these articles before spending the
money on a LiFePO4 lithium battery system.
The LiFePO4 batteries are expensive, easily damaged by misuse and
very different than lead acid batteries. For example, leaving them
fully charged shortens their life whereas a lead acid battery is best
kept fully charged. LiFePO4 batteries need to be floated at about a
20-30% charge state if they are not being cycled. Overcharging the
LiFePO4 battery shortens their life whereas a lead acid battery needs
to be overcharged occasionally to keep the cells balanced. LiFePO4
battery chargers sense current to determine when to quit charging the
battery. Lead acid battery chargers sense voltage to determine when
to quit charging the battery.
So my suggestion is to learn as much as you can about LiFePO4 lithium
battery systems and then decide if it is a good fit for the way that
you will be using your GMC...
For now I am keeping the golf cart batteries in the GMC. But I am
working on a bus conversion for full-time off-the-grid use. That one
will have an LiFePO4 lithium battery system installed...
Dave M.
At 06:00 PM 31/08/2020, you wrote:
> My House batteries are at the end of their life and I need to
> replace them before the winter traveling season.
>
> A year ago Jerry Work did a presentation at Western States and GMCMI
> about Modern LiFePO4 lithium batteries with on-board electronic
> controls for use
> in our GMC's. Have any of you done this conversion? Which of the
> three packages did you use? How easy to install? Are you glad you
> did the Lithium
> conversion?
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Dave
Ann Arbor, MI.
73 Sequoia (26'/455/EbH/RwI/ThH/HEI/TBI/160°/3.42/100A/Q55G)
99 Gillig (36' work in progress)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Using Lithium house batteries [message #358197 is a reply to message #358192] |
Tue, 01 September 2020 10:54 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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Dave:
Super insight. Thanks for sharing.
There is a huge difference between LiFePo4 (Lithium IRON) and Lithium Ion batteries.
Lithium Ion vs Lithium Iron Batteries
The ultimate similarity between all the battery technologies is that if you abuse your battery, it will have a much shorter life.
Dolph
DE AD0LF
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 26’ ex-PalmBeach
Howell EFI & EBL, Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission
“The Aluminum and Fiberglass Mistress”
|[ ]~~~[][ ][] \
"--OO--[]---O-"
> On Sep 1, 2020, at 10:31 AM, Dave via Gmclist wrote:
>
>
> If you do a lot of dry camping then LiFePO4 lithium batteries are a great choice. They are lightweight (always a good thing in a GMC). You can cycle them deep (over 80% of their capacity). They charge fast while the generator is running (assuming that you have a big enough charger) so you do not have to run the generator as long to top the batteries off.
>
> But if you spend most of your time plugged in. Or your GMC spends most of its time in storage, then LiFePO4 is probably not a good choice. A set of deep cycle golf-cart batteries are a much better choice.
>
> We use our GMC about six weeks out of the year. Maybe two of those are dry-camping. I have an electric fridge, inverter (for microwave, toaster, coffee maker etc.). I have been getting about ten years life out of each set (4 x 220ah) of golf-cart batteries. I typically use 100Ah/day and run the generator 3-4 hours/day (usually while cooking) when dry camping.
>
> The key to long battery life is to understand the nature of the battery that you are using and to keep it within its limits. One of the best resources I have found on LiFePO4 lithium battery systems is:
>
> http://nordkyndesign.com/category/marine-engineering/electrical/lithium-battery-systems/
>
> This set of articles is targeted toward the marine market but the issues are pretty much the same when using LiFePO4 batteries in an RV. I highly recommend reading these articles before spending the money on a LiFePO4 lithium battery system.
>
> The LiFePO4 batteries are expensive, easily damaged by misuse and very different than lead acid batteries. For example, leaving them fully charged shortens their life whereas a lead acid battery is best kept fully charged. LiFePO4 batteries need to be floated at about a 20-30% charge state if they are not being cycled. Overcharging the LiFePO4 battery shortens their life whereas a lead acid battery needs to be overcharged occasionally to keep the cells balanced. LiFePO4 battery chargers sense current to determine when to quit charging the battery. Lead acid battery chargers sense voltage to determine when to quit charging the battery.
>
> So my suggestion is to learn as much as you can about LiFePO4 lithium battery systems and then decide if it is a good fit for the way that you will be using your GMC...
>
> For now I am keeping the golf cart batteries in the GMC. But I am working on a bus conversion for full-time off-the-grid use. That one will have an LiFePO4 lithium battery system installed...
>
> Dave M.
>
> At 06:00 PM 31/08/2020, you wrote:
>> My House batteries are at the end of their life and I need to replace them before the winter traveling season.
>>
>> A year ago Jerry Work did a presentation at Western States and GMCMI about Modern LiFePO4 lithium batteries with on-board electronic controls for use
>> in our GMC's. Have any of you done this conversion? Which of the three packages did you use? How easy to install? Are you glad you did the Lithium
>> conversion?
>> --
>> Larry
>> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
>> Menomonie, WI.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> Dave
> Ann Arbor, MI.
> 73 Sequoia (26'/455/EbH/RwI/ThH/HEI/TBI/160°/3.42/100A/Q55G)
> 99 Gillig (36' work in progress)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: Using Lithium house batteries [message #358223 is a reply to message #358162] |
Wed, 02 September 2020 16:16 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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My take on the information I can find is if you are going to let the GMC sit in freezing temperatures, you should look at AGM. LITHIUM batteries are protected through electronics to STOP charging around freezing. If that stop fails, the batteries can literally blow up.
if you are in freezing temperatures, you will be able to use your lithium power but you cannot charge it back up.
the AGMs do not care if it is freezing, they charge at any temp, supply power at any temperature amd are cheaper to purchase.
I got this off of a battery expert on the web.
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
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| Re: [GMCnet] Using Lithium house batteries [message #358404 is a reply to message #358192] |
Tue, 08 September 2020 07:41 |
Jp Benson
Messages: 649
Registered: October 2011
Location: Fla
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Dave wrote on Tue, 01 September 2020 09:31
The key to long battery life is to understand the nature of the
battery that you are using and to keep it within its limits. One of
the best resources I have found on LiFePO4 lithium battery systems is:
http://nordkyndesign.com/category/marine-engineering/electrical/lithium-battery-systems/
Thanks for the link. There's a lot of very good technical info. As the author states:
"This article is part of a series dealing with building best-in-class lithium battery systems from bare cells"
Now it's clear why Battle Born (and other vendors) incorporate a Battery Management System inside the battery case. I'm still curious about the so called memory effect caused by recharging after partial discharge.
JP
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