Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Refridge- updates?
| Refridge- updates? [message #356751] |
Tue, 14 July 2020 08:05  |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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So I have I believe is the original or close replacement refridge that had its cooling unit replaced just before I bought the coach 20 years ago, man time flies! I’ve been wanting to do a update on it to allow some boondocking with it for a week or more if needed. I’ve done some research on the topic and am finding that some newer high end RV’s are apparently going all electric. I did find one all electric fridge that could be a replacement that had a 7amp start up and a 1 amp when cooled down power draw. I take it that the swing back to electric is the efficiency of the cooling units along with some solar panel support to recharge. I know this has been debated before but if the more expensive rv units are using all electric now for some benefit over propane I assume. Anybody know why they are going that way?
Thanks,
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: Refridge- updates? [message #356752 is a reply to message #356751] |
Tue, 14 July 2020 08:18  |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
Karma: -6
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I think there are 2 reasons.....one people are expecting bigger fridges so we see the huge double door units in them and the OEMs are trying to get away from propane in order to avoid re-certification requirements for the end user.
Also alot of insurance and states do not allow the propane to be burning while your driving so how do you cool that big fridge unless it's hydro powered and your rolling for 12 jours....
Im not sure about your areas either but in mine there is only one place that fills RV tanks the rest are gone or only have the bbq tank swaps.
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
[Updated on: Tue, 14 July 2020 08:19] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Refridge- updates? [message #356776 is a reply to message #356773] |
Tue, 14 July 2020 15:04 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
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ICBC.....Insurance Company British Columbia in Canada for one. Says to turn off all propane appliences before towing.
There is also a note in another US document that says it is illegal to enter a gas station with your propabe appliences working....you must shut them off before entering the gas station lot and also cannot restart them on the gas station lot. (Wonder how many do that or even think about it)
I bet you that if your insurance found out during an accident investigation that the fire or explosion was caused by the use of a propane rv applience while driving you'd probably have a denied claim. Has anyone asked their insurance if they would be covered if using a propane applience while driving?
1stu@97381.com, Emery wrote on Tue, 14 July 2020 14:42
> On Jul 14, 2020, at 7:18 AM, 6cuda6--- via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I think there are 2 reasons.....one people are expecting bigger fridges so we see the huge double door units in them and the OEMs are trying to get
> away from propane in order to avoid re-certification requirements for the end user.
>
> Also alot of insurance and states do not allow the propane to be burning while your driving so how do you cool that big fridge unless its hydro
> powered and your rolling for 12 jours….
Please name just one!
>
> Im not sure about your areas either but in mine there is only one place that fills RV tanks the rest are gone or only have the bbq tank swaps.
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
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Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: [GMCnet] Refridge- updates? [message #356777 is a reply to message #356776] |
Tue, 14 July 2020 15:56 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Ah yes, I.C.B.C. What a racket they have going. I have a bunch of friends
in B.C., they universally all dislike that company.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 1:04 PM 6cuda6--- via Gmclist
wrote:
> ICBC.....Insurance Company British Columbia in Canada for one. Says to
> turn off all propane appliences before towing.
>
>
> There is also a note in another US document that says it is illegal to
> enter a gas station with your propabe appliences working....you must shut
> them
> off before entering the gas station lot and also cannot restart them on
> the gas station lot. (Wonder how many do that or even think about it)
>
>
> I bet you that if your insurance found out during an accident
> investigation that the fire or explosion was caused by the use of a propane
> rv applience
> while driving you'd probably have a denied claim. Has anyone asked their
> insurance if they would be covered if using a propane applience while
> driving?
>
>
> 1stu@97381.com, Emery wrote on Tue, 14 July 2020 14:42
>>> On Jul 14, 2020, at 7:18 AM, 6cuda6--- via Gmclist wrote:
>>>
>>> I think there are 2 reasons.....one people are expecting bigger
> fridges so we see the huge double door units in them and the OEMs are trying
>>> to get
>>> away from propane in order to avoid re-certification requirements for
> the end user.
>>>
>>> Also alot of insurance and states do not allow the propane to be
> burning while your driving so how do you cool that big fridge unless its
>>> hydro
>>> powered and your rolling for 12 jours….
>> Please name just one!
>>>
>>
>>> Im not sure about your areas either but in mine there is only one
> place that fills RV tanks the rest are gone or only have the bbq tank
>>> swaps.
>>> --
>>> Rich Mondor,
>>>
>>> Brockville, ON
>>>
>>> 77 Hughes 2600
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: Refridge- updates? [message #356778 is a reply to message #356751] |
Tue, 14 July 2020 16:47 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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You won’t get any argument about the intent of insurance companies and they’re tactics but I do see the point of having a open flame at a gas station. So I see the concern there. Guess that would be the place for a 3-way refridge then. Anyhow, kinda wondering what my amp draw is now on this electric? Saw 3 amp estimate somewhere on the forum at one time.
I’ll dig a bit more to see what it takes to stand up solar. My local RV dealer said he had a portable solar panel setup for his trailer. It just always concerns me those can grow feet pretty easily.
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: Refridge- updates? [message #356795 is a reply to message #356751] |
Wed, 15 July 2020 09:38 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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I’ve gone out and took a picture of my fridge compressor I have and it looks like its a Sawafugi SK-615m compressor. Anyone have any info on its power consumption? Been searching online and not turning up that one.
Thanks,
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: Refridge- updates? [message #356797 is a reply to message #356751] |
Wed, 15 July 2020 10:28 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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The most expensive RV rigs can handle an electric load on the solar panel system. They have a lot of roof for more panels to create the needed power. Most of those units also carry a large number of batteries to support the extra load needed for the large refrigerators.
The GMC does not have a lot of roof to offer space for excess solar panels. Thats not to say it cant be done but then the GMC does not have a lot of space for the amount of batteries needed for the storage of the power from the panels.
3 way RV friges came with the thought that Propane is used when camping with no outside hookups. When traveling, you would shut down the propane and run on the 12vdc power. You are fine with the engine running but when you stop you must not run on 12vdc because the heater will drain the battery.
When hooked up to shore power the 120vac runs the frige just fine. Either the 120vac to the frige itself or your charging system for the coach batteries usually can handle the load with no problem.
The old original GMCs used electric motors on the friges. It was old tech and I am guessing was used for travel mode. Most of my reading indicated that the GMC Motorhomes were not intended for more than a couple days use and camping does not come up often in the ads.
Today the technology is getting better, though I think the friges still need to work on more efficiency.
The Shop in Indiana can repair your frige or convert it to an electric (with a motor). The power used is said to be low, I thought I read abour 3 amp start and lower running load, would have to check that out. There is a you tube vid that shows the conversion unit and the installation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yte1V3CkDrw
conversion back to the original amonia/water system can also be accomplished.
Most of those that live in their RVs use smaller electric (motor type system) chests with their solar arrays and get by just fine. No propane used for frige at all.
This is one of those subjects that you really have to go out and do research, especially if you are planning to buy a new frige, you have to have the right RV, the right solar power system, battery supply for an electric, otherwise a 3 way may be the choice to go.
slc
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
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| Re: [GMCnet] Refridge- updates? [message #356802 is a reply to message #356797] |
Wed, 15 July 2020 11:52 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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I have had Dometic Americana II Refrigerators in 2 out of the 3 coaches we have owned. They are 2-way (120VAC & LP) and yes I run the propane on when going down the road (20+years). Only time that I have turned it off is if we are going to go thru any tunnels or use a ferry. As per Leon at National RV Refrig. I turn mine on in the spring and turn it off in the fall and maybe one in the middle of the summer to defrost. There were several years that it never got turned off as we basically used the coach year round when we went to FL & AZ for the winter.
The Avion that we own is getting a 120VAC Refrigerator with its own inverter(2000W) and 4 golf carts batteries. I have tested before we took it out and it really doesn’t run that often and we don’t make a habit of opening that much when driving down the road and we can also run the generator is need be.
There are 2-way & 3-way Refrigerators that one of the power sources was 12VDC. Note here that the majority if not all RV refrigerators require a 12VDC circuit to operate the controls.
National RV Refrigeration in Shipshewana, IN is a known expert on RV and LP refrigerators. If you want to convert you can call them 260 768-7059. Ask for Leon. Also has a good site. WWW.fixyourfridge.com
J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 29.5’ Stretch
75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:28 AM, slc via Gmclist wrote:
>
> The most expensive RV rigs can handle an electric load on the solar panel system. They have a lot of roof for more panels to create the needed power.
> Most of those units also carry a large number of batteries to support the extra load needed for the large refrigerators.
>
> The GMC does not have a lot of roof to offer space for excess solar panels. Thats not to say it cant be done but then the GMC does not have a lot of
> space for the amount of batteries needed for the storage of the power from the panels.
>
> 3 way RV friges came with the thought that Propane is used when camping with no outside hookups. When traveling, you would shut down the propane and
> run on the 12vdc power. You are fine with the engine running but when you stop you must not run on 12vdc because the heater will drain the battery.
> When hooked up to shore power the 120vac runs the frige just fine. Either the 120vac to the frige itself or your charging system for the coach
> batteries usually can handle the load with no problem.
>
> The old original GMCs used electric motors on the friges. It was old tech and I am guessing was used for travel mode. Most of my reading indicated
> that the GMC Motorhomes were not intended for more than a couple days use and camping does not come up often in the ads.
>
> Today the technology is getting better, though I think the friges still need to work on more efficiency.
> The Shop in Indiana can repair your frige or convert it to an electric (with a motor). The power used is said to be low, I thought I read abour 3 amp
> start and lower running load, would have to check that out. There is a you tube vid that shows the conversion unit and the installation.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yte1V3CkDrw
>
> conversion back to the original amonia/water system can also be accomplished.
>
> Most of those that live in their RVs use smaller electric (motor type system) chests with their solar arrays and get by just fine. No propane used
> for frige at all.
>
> This is one of those subjects that you really have to go out and do research, especially if you are planning to buy a new frige, you have to have the
> right RV, the right solar power system, battery supply for an electric, otherwise a 3 way may be the choice to go.
>
> slc
>
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Refridge- updates? [message #356803 is a reply to message #356776] |
Wed, 15 July 2020 12:18 |
stu@97381.com, Emery
Messages: 232
Registered: June 2020
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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> On Jul 14, 2020, at 2:04 PM, 6cuda6--- via Gmclist wrote:
>
> ICBC.....Insurance Company British Columbia in Canada for one. Says to turn off all propane appliances before towing.
>
Are you towing your GMC?
>
> There is also a note in another US document that says it is illegal to enter a gas station with your propane appliances working....you must shut them
> off before entering the gas station lot and also cannot restart them on the gas station lot. (Wonder how many do that or even think about it)
>
>
You said “a lot of insurance and states do not allow the propane to be boring while you are driving”
You stil havn’t name one.
I don’t think any US states hae this in their laws or insurance companies have this in their policies.
There are many refrigerated trucks on the highways.
Emery Stora
> I bet you that if your insurance found out during an accident investigation that the fire or explosion was caused by the use of a propane rv applience
> while driving you'd probably have a denied claim. Has anyone asked their insurance if they would be covered if using a propane applience while
> driving?
>
>
NO. Unless its specific in their policy they cannot deny coverage after the fact.
Emery Stora
> 1stu@97381.com, Emery wrote on Tue, 14 July 2020 14:42
>>> On Jul 14, 2020, at 7:18 AM, 6cuda6--- via Gmclist wrote:
>>>
>>> I think there are 2 reasons.....one people are expecting bigger fridges so we see the huge double door units in them and the OEMs are trying
>>> to get
>>> away from propane in order to avoid re-certification requirements for the end user.
>>>
>>> Also alot of insurance and states do not allow the propane to be burning while your driving so how do you cool that big fridge unless its
>>> hydro
>>> powered and your rolling for 12 jours….
>> Please name just one!
>>>
>>
>>> Im not sure about your areas either but in mine there is only one place that fills RV tanks the rest are gone or only have the bbq tank
>>> swaps.
>>> --
>>> Rich Mondor,
>>>
>>> Brockville, ON
>>>
>>> 77 Hughes 2600
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: Refridge- updates? [message #356807 is a reply to message #356751] |
Wed, 15 July 2020 14:28 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Alright, this has gotten wrapped around a number of different posts, so let me try to run a clearing cycle.
The early GMCs were built with electric refrigeration. These were Norcold (Nocold) units that actually were not any compressor like what you may know. They were a "Swing Motor" that was a piston in a 60Hz resonant system of springs. They actually were motivated by 24V 60hz either from a 120V transformer or a 12VDV multi-vibrator (type of inverter). They were frequency sensitive and purportedly some were damaged by being supplied power from Onans that were off tune. The great advantage that this design had was that there was not any high peak of starting load as with any normal rotary compressor.
They also, unfortunately, must have had limited heat load capacity. Because of this, there was a Service Bulletin to add the side and roof vents like an absorption unit would have to allow better cooling. If the owner complained. (A person joke follows.) This is why some do not have this feature.
The absorption units that have LP, 120 and 12 heaters can chew up your house bank in a flash. I had one in the B-van that my father assembled. I ended up getting from my father but we never got to use it as we might have hoped. This has all the appearance of a better idea than it actually is. What these need (IMHO) is an automatic change over to shift it back to LP when the main engine stops. The DC load is very high and they do not cool as well on DC as on any other. I have heard that others have also noticed this issue.
The 12V compressor units have been in the marine applications for a long time and are not anything new. The actual machine made by Danfoss is a special and has inverter electronics with it. While they do a sort of a soft start, the physics still requires some - just less starting current.
Many of these mega-coaches are all electric. At the Albuquerque Balloons in 2008, I was talking to the owner of such a coach. It has 6ea-8Ds for a house bank and a 5kW(maybe VA) inverter. That was a literal half ton of battery. The coach had no 12VDC house system (he said). The Monday launch was starting and we didn't get to talk again.
We are currently running a 3.5 dorm reefer (about the same as OE size) on a Hazard Fright 750/1500 inverter and a pair of GC2s (now T105). When we have gone to summer music festivals (Evart for other GMCGL), it will be a day and an half before I have to fire up the Onan. This was a very inexpensive alternative and we have both worked it and enjoyed it for years now. Mary actually likes this reefer (that matters a lot) more than both the Nocold and a prior little one that we sold off successfully.
About the refit ordered by the service bulletin, it was done to my coach. The problem is that as installed the reefer was supposed to have air flow available from the living space that would flow under, then behind then out the top of the reefer space. They added the side vent and the roof vent (that still leaks) and modified the shelf above to allow for air flow. Well, we were in Minnesota in October during our first excursion. It was 20°F one night. The new gas heater was beatin' cheecks to try to keep up and there was still very cold air all over the floor. In the morning I discovered the problem. They had not done anything to close off the communication with the living space. I did my best to close off the exterior vents with rags and bread wrappers.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Refridge- updates? [message #356875 is a reply to message #356751] |
Fri, 17 July 2020 07:31 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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At home I have a Norcold DEF788S, a half size 12/24/110volt autoswitching compressor refrigerator. If the Dometic dies, I will get another of these and stack them. One would stay as a refrigerator, and the other would be either refrigerator or freezer as needed. They can be set for either, they are all one compartment. They produce substantially less heat than the Dometic, instead of a roof vent a small vent with a couple of fans would be sufficient although if the roof vent is already there it will suffice. It might be necessary to remove the cabinet below the Dometic to have sufficient height for two, I haven't measured. They autoswitch and will favor 110V if it's available, otherwise they default to 12/24.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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