GMCforum
For enthusiast of the Classic GMC Motorhome built from 1973 to 1978. A web-based mirror of the GMCnet mailing list.

Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] More battery discussion
[GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356210] Mon, 29 June 2020 03:09 Go to next message
Gerard Hickey is currently offline  Gerard Hickey   United States
Messages: 53
Registered: June 2019
Karma: 1
Member
I was following the recent discussion about the batteries with a
particular interest. I have now completely replaced the line from the
engine batteries to the house batteries. The line was definitely the
original line installed and the line had not faired very well in the
past 45 years as the line was very corroded and all the insulation was
chipping off. So I am glad that I have the line replaced now.

I also want to thank those that discussed the dangers of charging two
12v batteries in parallel. When I picked up my RV last year it had two
dissimilar batteries for the house batteries. I had planned in all the
rewiring that I am doing to put both in parallel. On first thought it
seemed like a great plan, but I am glad to read the discussion about the
internal resistance of the batteries. Never would have thought about it
from that angle and quite possibly saved me a disaster.

The solenoids at each end of the line appear to be original also. I was
thinking about replacing them also, but then thought about my plans to
replace the battery isolator. I have been looking at replacing it with a
Victron Cyrix-ct or a Li-Bim isolation module (if anyone has any strong
opinions of either, I would love to hear them). In replacing the battery
isolator with current technology is there still any need for the
solenoids? I can not think of a reason but I figured I would ask here of
those of you that are much more knowledgeable about the GMC electrical
system.

One other question also. In the generator compartment above the solenoid
there is a device about 1.5 inches in diameter with two terminals on it.
It appears to me to be a fuse as it appears to be a short between the
terminals. Although I as am writing this I started to wonder if it is
actually a diode to allow current to flow back to the engine compartment
for boosting the current to the starter motor. Can some one identify
this device or confirm my latest suspicion?

--
Gerard Hickey / WTØF IRLP:3067/Echolink:529661
hickey@kinetic-compute.com DMR: 3102272
425-395-4554


_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Re: [GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356214 is a reply to message #356210] Mon, 29 June 2020 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeremy Sanford is currently offline  Jeremy Sanford   United States
Messages: 35
Registered: August 2018
Location: Sacramento CA
Karma: 1
Member
Gerard Hickey wrote on Mon, 29 June 2020 01:09
I
One other question also. In the generator compartment above the solenoid
there is a device about 1.5 inches in diameter with two terminals on it.
It appears to me to be a fuse as it appears to be a short between the
terminals.
That is a 60a circuit breaker designed to protect the house electrical system.

If you get a Li BIM it will replace both the isolator and the front boost solenoid (you would still need the rear boost solenoid).

Jeremy


Jeremy Sanford
Sacramento, CA
1977 Kingsley
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u42733-jsanford.html

 

Re: [GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356216 is a reply to message #356210] Mon, 29 June 2020 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
Gerard,

The bakelite pucks are self resetting circuit breakers that are there to keep the #10SAE cable from setting fire to the coach if there is an issue.
They have by-pass contactors (solenoids) to allow the boost system to work in the later coaches when the house bank is in the rear.

I personally am extremely ambivalent about isolators and combiners and have no experience with the two you referenced. I am very fond of the idea of isolated DC systems for lots of reasons.

Matt

Gerard Hickey wrote on Mon, 29 June 2020 04:09
I was following the recent discussion about the batteries with a particular interest. I have now completely replaced the line from the engine batteries to the house batteries. The line was definitely the original line installed and the line had not faired very well in the past 45 years as the line was very corroded and all the insulation was chipping off. So I am glad that I have the line replaced now.

I also want to thank those that discussed the dangers of charging two 12v batteries in parallel. When I picked up my RV last year it had two dissimilar batteries for the house batteries. I had planned in all the rewiring that I am doing to put both in parallel. On first thought it seemed like a great plan, but I am glad to read the discussion about the internal resistance of the batteries. Never would have thought about it from that angle and quite possibly saved me a disaster.

The solenoids at each end of the line appear to be original also. I was thinking about replacing them also, but then thought about my plans to replace the battery isolator. I have been looking at replacing it with a Victron Cyrix-ct or a Li-Bim isolation module (if anyone has any strong opinions of either, I would love to hear them). In replacing the battery isolator with current technology is there still any need for the solenoids? I can not think of a reason but I figured I would ask here of those of you that are much more knowledgeable about the GMC electrical system.

One other question also. In the generator compartment above the solenoid there is a device about 1.5 inches in diameter with two terminals on it. It appears to me to be a fuse as it appears to be a short between the terminals. Although I as am writing this I started to wonder if it is actually a diode to allow current to flow back to the engine compartment for boosting the current to the starter motor. Can some one identify this device or confirm my latest suspicion?

--
Gerard Hickey / WTØF IRLP:3067/Echolink:529661
hickey@kinetic-compute.com DMR: 3102272


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356221 is a reply to message #356210] Mon, 29 June 2020 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnS is currently offline  JohnS   United States
Messages: 126
Registered: December 2014
Location: Vacaville, CA
Karma: -2
Senior Member
I installed a Li-BIM early this year, along with a LiFe-Po4 house battery in the rear . Have only been able to make a couple of trips since then but so far am satisfied with it. Particularly like that it will limit the time the alternator will charge a depleted house battery, allowing time for the alternator to cool. Also, when plugged in to shore power, it monitors the engine battery charge state and connects it to the PD-9260 charger.


The Li-BIM has replaced the Isolator, Power Contactor, and Combiner in front, & I left the OEM 60 amp Fuse and Bypass Contactor in back so the original boost function is intact.

JWID, John S


John Shutzbaugh, Vacaville, CA, ncserv@aol.com; 78 Buskirk stretch, "What were we thinking?"
Re: [GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356223 is a reply to message #356210] Mon, 29 June 2020 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
As I read it the Li-BIM is a combiner tuned slightly differently. What I have a problem with is your removal of the front solenoid. The front and rear solenoids have nothing to do with charging batteries (front or rear). Both solenoids remain open for 99+ % of their life and are only energized and used when the boost switch on the dash is pressed. Someday you are going to want that emergency boost function to work to move a couple hundred amps to start the coach.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356227 is a reply to message #356223] Mon, 29 June 2020 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeremy Sanford is currently offline  Jeremy Sanford   United States
Messages: 35
Registered: August 2018
Location: Sacramento CA
Karma: 1
Member
Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 29 June 2020 10:54
As I read it the Li-BIM is a combiner tuned slightly differently. What I have a problem with is your removal of the front solenoid. The front and rear solenoids have nothing to do with charging batteries (front or rear). Both solenoids remain open for 99+ % of their life and are only energized and used when the boost switch on the dash is pressed. Someday you are going to want that emergency boost function to work to move a couple hundred amps to start the coach.
The wire from the boost switch connects to one of the terminals on the LI-BIM so that it can replace the front solenoid and preserve the GMC original boost function.


Jeremy Sanford
Sacramento, CA
1977 Kingsley
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u42733-jsanford.html

 

Re: [GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356248 is a reply to message #356227] Mon, 29 June 2020 22:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
I might be reading this wrong and I'll go look again. I think you are mistaking a combining function for charging rather than boost function of several hundred amps used for starting.

I will go look again. What is the maximum capacity of this item when combining?


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356249 is a reply to message #356248] Mon, 29 June 2020 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeremy Sanford is currently offline  Jeremy Sanford   United States
Messages: 35
Registered: August 2018
Location: Sacramento CA
Karma: 1
Member
Ken Burton wrote on Mon, 29 June 2020 20:02
I might be reading this wrong and I'll go look again. I think you are mistaking a combining function for charging rather than boost function of several hundred amps used for starting.

I will go look again. What is the maximum capacity of this item when combining?
Ken,

It is designed specifically to allow emergency boost operation. The old front solenoid power wire gets connected to the SIG post on the LiBIM225. The specs for the contacts are 1200A for 30 seconds intermittent.
http://precisioncircuitsinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/00-10041-26x-Li-BIM-Rev1.pdf


Jeremy Sanford
Sacramento, CA
1977 Kingsley
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u42733-jsanford.html

 

[Updated on: Mon, 29 June 2020 22:17]

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356252 is a reply to message #356210] Mon, 29 June 2020 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
Senior Member
Ok, from what I read, the maximum is 198 amps. Nothing is said what happens if you try to exceed this during engine starting. It should allow manual combining to charge the opposite battery with no problem unless there is a dead short or something drawing more than 200 amps.

I still question it's ability to really start the engine under some conditions. I would leave the solenoid installed. Besides that, it makes a good terminal block for all of those heavy cables.

I do not know if your rear solenoid question was answered. This rear item is just a relay with heavy contacts capable of a couple hundred amps. It's purpose is to bypass the 50 or 60 amp automatic reset CB in the line from the rear battery(s) during boost starting.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356256 is a reply to message #356210] Tue, 30 June 2020 07:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
I'm watching this with a bit of interest. In my uses however, the house batteries are only required to keep the icebox up during refueling and hooking up at campsites. In eight years of GMCing I have overnighted twice without shore power, both in the winter. All the batteries have to do is run the furnace, and I could have fired the genset both times if needed.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] More battery discussion [message #356271 is a reply to message #356210] Tue, 30 June 2020 13:42 Go to previous message
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
Senior Member
Linda qualifies for 2 new 12V batteries in her powered wheelchair every year. Deep cycle. That keeps me nicely supplied for the GMC house batteries. And for our collector cars. With cool temps. They can run our furnace for2 days. This set is 4 years old. Very strong output stile. But for just under $800 for the par. They should be. Our Coe pay is about $60. Makes for cheap batteries.
Bob Dunahugh
78 Royale since 2003.
4 COPO Yenkos
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

Previous Topic: Electra-Magic toilet removal - slides won't budge
Next Topic: Fan-Tastic Roof Fan - Parasitic Load
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Sat Sep 21 09:26:34 CDT 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01173 seconds