Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Surge protector
| Surge protector [message #355479] |
Sun, 07 June 2020 22:22  |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Will be camping here soon. Was wondering if I need a surge protector box at the campsite hookup. Somehow I thought our GMC’s had that built in.
Thanks
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: Surge protector [message #355495 is a reply to message #355479] |
Mon, 08 June 2020 11:15  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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I have never seen a surge protector in a gmc. Even at last gmcmi i dont remember seeing one. I will havr to check jimK’s coach out in rapid city.
My in-laws use one on their 5th wheel. I then priced them out and figured I could replace all the sensitive electronics in my coach for what one costs. So have not used one since I have owned my gmc. (10years)
I do have a kill-a-watt meter plugged into my kitchen outlet where it is highly visible. . I like that as it does show if shore power is working or not and what voltage. Or what voltage my generator is. No protection, but was only $20.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
[Updated on: Mon, 08 June 2020 11:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Surge protector [message #355502 is a reply to message #355495] |
Mon, 08 June 2020 13:20 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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In the 22 years that we have had our GMC’s I have never used a surge protector on our coach. I do check the electrical pedestal be for I plug in with an electrical outlet tester using the a 30A or 50A adapter.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-Analog-120-Volt-Test-Meter/1000970284
or
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sperry-Analog-1000-Volt-Test-Meter/1000212869
On 50A service it only looks at one side. If the 30A outlet checks out there is a good chance that the 50A is also OK.
One of the first thing that a RV sales person will try and sell a rookie RV buyer is a Surge protector by telling all sorts of horror stories that can afflict you at campgrounds.
If you really, really, really need to have that surge protector then there are some really good buys out there now because of the rv market.
https://www.campingworld.com/southwire-portable-surge-guard-protector-30-amp-73993.html
or
https://www.campingworld.com/southwire-portable-surge-guard-protector-50-amp-73995.html
But the first listed testers are much less expensive and do the same job.
This is what I do and this is my PO, you can do what you feel you need to do.
J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 29.5’ Stretch
75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> On Jun 8, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Jon Roche via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I have never seen a surge protector in a gmc. Even at last gmcmi i dont remember seeing one. I will havr to check jimK’s coach out in rapid city.
>
>
> My in-laws use one on their 5th wheel. I then priced them out and figured I couple replace all the sensitive electronics in my coach for what one
> costs. So have not used one since I have owned my gmc. (10years)
>
> I do have a kill-a-watt meter plugged into my kitchen outlet where it is highly visible. . I like that as it does show if shore power is working or
> not and what voltage. Or what voltage my generator is. No protection, but was only $20.
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
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> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: Surge protector [message #355508 is a reply to message #355479] |
Mon, 08 June 2020 20:20 |
tgeiger
Messages: 518
Registered: February 2006
Location: kansas city
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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So I do have other items I would rather spend my money on for sure so getting a circut meter sounds great to me. I don’t know why I thought there was something designed into the GMC, guess I was dreaming that one.
Thanks all,
TG
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
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| Re: Surge protector [message #355511 is a reply to message #355479] |
Tue, 09 June 2020 09:51 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Most surges are of such a short duration that most equipment survives, especially since most electronics power supplies are universal units designed to work at up to 250 Volts and down to 90Volts. I always meter the post to see if the L1 and L2 are good to Neutral and Ground at 125V . And 240 between L1 and L2. Though this does not truly tell you how snug the connections are and how they may behave under actual load. The real risk is a looseNeutral in the park wiring. This can cause one side voltage to go HIGH and other LOW. If say the roof AC is on one leg and your converter on the other, and Neutral is bad the Voltage on the converter leg can approach 240V as the loads are unbalanced. A friend lost his PD converter this way and it was a maraca with lose parts inside. Since they are riveted shut we replaced the unit to save time. Expensive post protectors are supposed to protect against this but I can’t say if they do or if they do so in a timely enough manner. And expensive too. Also adding a device like this in line will cause slight Voltage drop as more connectors and stuff in line. This could make a borderline brown out situation worse These do not correct low Voltage, only disconnect if it drops too low. It the unit shuts off power while you step away from the coach you could come back to spoiled food or a tragic overheated pet condition. If there is a certain electronic device you are concerned about you could use a point of use surge strip or even the better UPS version that are pretty small now and can provide some back up power in emergency
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Surge protector [message #355513 is a reply to message #355495] |
Tue, 09 June 2020 10:00 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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lqqkatjon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2020 12:15I have never seen a surge protector in a gmc. Even at last gmcmi i dont remember seeing one. I will havr to check jimK’s coach out in rapid city.
My in-laws use one on their 5th wheel. I then priced them out and figured I could replace all the sensitive electronics in my coach for what one costs. So have not used one since I have owned my GMC. (10years)
I do have a kill-a-watt meter plugged into my kitchen outlet where it is highly visible. . I like that as it does show if shore power is working or not and what voltage. Or what voltage my generator is. No protection, but was only $20.
I am always worried about things like electrical surges in our GMC. Probably because early on in my ownership, around 2001, my Onan had an overspeed condition that fried our microwave, TV, and I think battery charger. I've also seen first hand the effects that Lightning can cause in an RV connected to a park electrical pedestal. Ever since Ive worried about what would happen if we were connected and away from the coach, with our pets locked inside, and a surge or other external electrical problem occurred.
Fast forward to 2017, when I installed a "Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C 50 Amp Hardwired Electrical Management System".
Product Features:
Over/Under Voltage Protection
Open Ground, Open Neutral & Reverse Polarity Detection
Accidental 240V Protection
Miswired Pedestal Indication
Surge Failure Indicator
Amperage Meter Display
Previous Error Code
A/C Frequency Protection
Time Delay (136 seconds)
Adjustable Time Delay
Thermally Protected
Remote Display w/Scrolling Digital Display
Field Serviceable
UL Certified and Canadian Approved
Lifetime Warranty
Since it is hardwired, I don't have to do anything when plugging in or running the ONAN. It will shut power off to the coach if there are surges, a miswired pedestal, the Onan outputs improper A/C Frequency, or too low or too high voltage and other problems.
It helps me balance AC loads because it shows voltage, amperage, and CPS on each leg of the system. Especially nice if connected to 15 or 20 amp outlets, such as at a friends or relatives house. I am able to tune the Onan to close to 60 CPS and watch that drift as various things are turned on and off. Time delay is nice because it allows the ONAN to start and stabilize before switching its power on the coach.
Kind of pricey at almost $400, but I would not leave home without it.
Just the way I run, other opinions will vary.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: Surge protector [message #355528 is a reply to message #355479] |
Tue, 09 June 2020 19:28 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Since a bolt of lightning is about a billion joules of energy, and a quick look at surge suppressors shows them to be between 2,500 and 5,000 joules of surge protection, its not going to help much on a very close lightning strike.
A poor neutral is the biggest worry when plugged into a 50Amp service. Where we camp here in the Great white North, its rare to get 50Amp service. This failure is not an issue that will cause damage on 30 Amp service... just low or no power.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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| Re: Surge protector [message #355538 is a reply to message #355479] |
Wed, 10 June 2020 07:20 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Quick n dirty surge protector. Hang 150 Volt MOVs across the output of each breaker in the panel to neutral. Some use 130 Volt ones. Either way, as part of your unwinterizing of your coach pop the breaker box cover and have a look. If you find a couple of wire stubs and bits of MOV in the bottom of the panel, that's where one gave its all that your equipment might live. Replace them every couple of years, they don't die from age but each overvoltage event shortens their life. Bourns GMOV-20D151K should work OK, they're a buck .88 from Mouser.
It's easy to tell when you lose one, the smell is distinctive.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Surge protector [message #355563 is a reply to message #355528] |
Wed, 10 June 2020 15:21 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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RF_Burns wrote on Tue, 09 June 2020 20:28Since a bolt of lightning is about a billion joules of energy, and a quick look at surge suppressors shows them to be between 2,500 and 5,000 joules of surge protection, its not going to help much on a very close lightning strike.
A poor neutral is the biggest worry when plugged into a 50Amp service. Where we camp here in the Great white North, its rare to get 50Amp service. This failure is not an issue that will cause damage on 30 Amp service... just low or no power.
I didn't mean to suggest the surge suppressor would prevent damage from a nearby lightning strike. But I do like the fact that the device I installed would prevent damage from miswired or damaged pedestal wiring. Also, it would prevent damage should my Onan decide to run away again. Plus I really do like to watch the voltage, amperage and CPS as well as any errors scroll through the scrolling display.
I write this as I hear nearby thunder for the ".Severe Thunderstorm Watch in Effect Through 8 PM..." for our area. Hope the power doesn't go out.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: Surge protector [message #355564 is a reply to message #355563] |
Wed, 10 June 2020 16:53 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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rjw wrote on Wed, 10 June 2020 16:21RF_Burns wrote on Tue, 09 June 2020 20:28Since a bolt of lightning is about a billion joules of energy, and a quick look at surge suppressors shows them to be between 2,500 and 5,000 joules of surge protection, its not going to help much on a very close lightning strike.
A poor neutral is the biggest worry when plugged into a 50Amp service. Where we camp here in the Great white North, its rare to get 50Amp service. This failure is not an issue that will cause damage on 30 Amp service... just low or no power.
I didn't mean to suggest the surge suppressor would prevent damage from a nearby lightning strike. But I do like the fact that the device I installed would prevent damage from miswired or damaged pedestal wiring. Also, it would prevent damage should my Onan decide to run away again. Plus I really do like to watch the voltage, amperage and CPS as well as any errors scroll through the scrolling display.
I write this as I hear nearby thunder for the ".Severe Thunderstorm Watch in Effect Through 8 PM..." for our area. Hope the power doesn't go out.
Power went out and we are on the backup generator.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: Surge protector [message #355575 is a reply to message #355565] |
Thu, 11 June 2020 07:32 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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RF_Burns wrote on Wed, 10 June 2020 18:08Richard, we have been watching those storms on this side of the border too. We are near London and not sure if they will miss us.
Paula and I have been clearing a spot in the shop to get the Murray inside.
We were out until ~3 AM. Problem is that while we had a backup generator running, the "internet" quit after about an hour. I assume that the ISP's router had a battery backup which only lasted about an hour. With that out, no internet or VOIP phones. We are in a bad area for cell service. Limited Verizon and AT&T signal so we can't use either of those reliably to get on-line. Kind of makes you appreciate when we had hard-wired landline phones that seemed to work no matter what and dial-up internet at 56 Kbaud. We have cut the cord so we can watch TV news over the air. We used to be able to get channel 10 in London with a big antenna, but I don't think we can anymore since we downsized.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: Surge protector [message #355577 is a reply to message #355479] |
Thu, 11 June 2020 08:47 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Richard,
We didn't lose power, but we lost DSL landline internet... tethering our laptops this morning off my cellphone.
There were 2 tornadoes in the area, one about 12 miles as the crow flies from us. It sure cooled down though.
DSL service here is poor... we are in the country about 5 wire miles to the closest telco switch. We get about 0.6mps download and 0.03up. Slightly better than the LTE cellphone service gives.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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