Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Question on Griffin Radiator
| Question on Griffin Radiator [message #355212] |
Fri, 29 May 2020 15:26  |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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So I installed a Griffin radiator on my coach a few years back, and while i did utilize the built in engine oil cooler, the PO of my coach had gone with an external trans cooler. According to my trans temp gauge, the external cooler was working fine, so rather than re-plumbing it, I just plugged the cooler on the Griffin, and left it as is.
This past spring, I towed a car on a trip for the first time, and on some of the bigger hills, I noticed the trans temp creeping up more than I would like. We have a trip planned for this summer when it will be much hotter, so I am thinking of going ahead and running the trans lines to the cooler in the radiator first, then on to the external cooler and back to the pan. I own a heavy duty Ford truck as well, and this is the same arrangement that comes on those from the factory and it works quite well. And while those systems are regulated with a thermostat, I don't really drive my coach much unloaded or in cold weather, so I'm not really too worried about over-cooling the system.
I also assumed I would pick up quite a bit of cooling capacity by adding in the radiator cooler. Over on one of the Ford Forums, one of the factory engineers who designed the 5R110 gearbox posts over there, and I remember reading a writeup he did where he mentioned that the radiator trans cooler, though much smaller, actually cooled quite a bit more than the external air to oil cooler due to the greater efficiency of a water to oil cooler.
However, while I was looking over how I was going to set this up under the coach, I noticed the Griffin is a cross-flow radiator, and that the trans cooler is seemingly on the hot side only. I don't remember anything about the Griffin being a dual pass or multi-pass radiator, so now I'm kind of debating whether to go ahead with my plan to run the 2 coolers in series, or update the existing external trans cooler to a larger one and continuing to bypass the radiator cooler.
Anyone have any thoughts on this or know if the Griffin is a multi-pass radiator or has something else in it's trans cooler design to get the oil over to the cool side of the radiator?
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: Question on Griffin Radiator [message #355214 is a reply to message #355212] |
Fri, 29 May 2020 15:58  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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TR 1 wrote on Fri, 29 May 2020 16:26So I installed a Griffin radiator on my coach a few years back, and while i did utilize the built in engine oil cooler, the PO of my coach had gone with an external trans cooler. According to my trans temp gauge, the external cooler was working fine, so rather than re-plumbing it, I just plugged the cooler on the Griffin, and left it as is.
This past spring, I towed a car on a trip for the first time, and on some of the bigger hills, I noticed the trans temp creeping up more than I would like. We have a trip planned for this summer when it will be much hotter, so I am thinking of going ahead and running the trans lines to the cooler in the radiator first, then on to the external cooler and back to the pan. I own a heavy duty Ford truck as well, and this is the same arrangement that comes on those from the factory and it works quite well. And while those systems are regulated with a thermostat, I don't really drive my coach much unloaded or in cold weather, so I'm not really too worried about over-cooling the system.
I also assumed I would pick up quite a bit of cooling capacity by adding in the radiator cooler. Over on one of the Ford Forums, one of the factory engineers who designed the 5R110 gearbox posts over there, and I remember reading a writeup he did where he mentioned that the radiator trans cooler, though much smaller, actually cooled quite a bit more than the external air to oil cooler due to the greater efficiency of a water to oil cooler.
However, while I was looking over how I was going to set this up under the coach, I noticed the Griffin is a cross-flow radiator, and that the trans cooler is seemingly on the hot side only. I don't remember anything about the Griffin being a dual pass or multi-pass radiator, so now I'm kind of debating whether to go ahead with my plan to run the 2 coolers in series, or update the existing external trans cooler to a larger one and continuing to bypass the radiator cooler.
Anyone have any thoughts on this or know if the Griffin is a multi-pass radiator or has something else in it's trans cooler design to get the oil over to the cool side of the radiator?
Mark,
I do not know if the Griffin is a multi-pass or not. As I write this. I am not sure if the OE is multi-pass or not, but I am going to look in my barn when there next.
Second issue. The transmission cooler part of the OE radiator is in the cold side. I happen to be sure of this because a friend and I were discussing the cooling system last night and I had it backwards.
Third issue. If you were to run the two coolers in series, your chance of causing trouble is slim. Transmissions are not engines. (Gee) OK, the reason you do not want an engines lube oil too cold is that you want to be able to drive off the water that is a by-product of combustion. That case does not exist in a transmission.
Forth issue. If you think about it, you will realize that AFT is not at all like engine oil. It about kerosene. So, no matter how cool it gets, it will not be far enough out of the viscosity band for that to be an issue.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Question on Griffin Radiator [message #355225 is a reply to message #355212] |
Fri, 29 May 2020 22:46 |
Scott Nutter
Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Mark,
Out of Curiosity, what was the temp of the the tranny fluid that made you uncomfortable? A lot of the aftermarket fluid coolers won’t even activate the fan until the fluid gets to be higher than 180*.
Scott
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
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| Re: Question on Griffin Radiator [message #355227 is a reply to message #355212] |
Fri, 29 May 2020 23:13 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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I would run the tranny fluid through the radiator tank cooler then the external cooler . If the tranny failed while it was using the radiator cooler I would not use this cooler ever again as any debree Left in the cooler could mess up the transmission.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question on Griffin Radiator [message #355246 is a reply to message #355212] |
Sat, 30 May 2020 16:55 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mark,
Go to www.bdub.net and download the Chevrolet P-30 Chassis Owners Manual
which he has posted there. One of the appendices covers adding external
oil coolers. It includes a table showing ATF life versus Average
temperature. You'll probably find from the text and chart that you're
overly concerned about your transmission temperature. If not, I wouldn't
hesitate to run through that New Griffin cooler also.
JMHO,
Ken H.
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 4:27 PM Mark Sawyer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> So I installed a Griffin radiator on my coach a few years back, and while
> i did utilize the built in engine oil cooler, the PO of my coach had gone
> with an external trans cooler. According to my trans temp gauge, the
> external cooler was working fine, so rather than re-plumbing it, I just
> plugged
> the cooler on the Griffin, and left it as is.
>
> This past spring, I towed a car on a trip for the first time, and on some
> of the bigger hills, I noticed the trans temp creeping up more than I would
> like. We have a trip planned for this summer when it will be much hotter,
> so I am thinking of going ahead and running the trans lines to the cooler
> in the radiator first, then on to the external cooler and back to the
> pan. I own a heavy duty Ford truck as well, and this is the same
> arrangement
> that comes on those from the factory and it works quite well. And while
> those systems are regulated with a thermostat, I don't really drive my coach
> much unloaded or in cold weather, so I'm not really too worried about
> over-cooling the system.
>
> I also assumed I would pick up quite a bit of cooling capacity by adding
> in the radiator cooler. Over on one of the Ford Forums, one of the factory
> engineers who designed the 5R110 gearbox posts over there, and I remember
> reading a writeup he did where he mentioned that the radiator trans cooler,
> though much smaller, actually cooled quite a bit more than the external
> air to oil cooler due to the greater efficiency of a water to oil cooler.
>
> However, while I was looking over how I was going to set this up under the
> coach, I noticed the Griffin is a cross-flow radiator, and that the trans
> cooler is seemingly on the hot side only. I don't remember anything about
> the Griffin being a dual pass or multi-pass radiator, so now I'm kind of
> debating whether to go ahead with my plan to run the 2 coolers in series,
> or update the existing external trans cooler to a larger one and continuing
> to bypass the radiator cooler.
>
> Anyone have any thoughts on this or know if the Griffin is a multi-pass
> radiator or has something else in it's trans cooler design to get the oil
> over
> to the cool side of the radiator?
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question on Griffin Radiator [message #355251 is a reply to message #355246] |
Sat, 30 May 2020 19:07 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 2:56 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Mark,
> Roy is very correct when he mentioned that possibly the trans cooler on
> the radiator was not being used as there could have been trans damage that
> caused debris to the cooler.
c
>
> Go to www.bdub.net and download the Chevrolet P-30 Chassis Owners Manual
> which he has posted there. One of the appendices covers adding external
> oil coolers. It includes a table showing ATF life versus Average
> temperature. You'll probably find from the text and chart that you're
> overly concerned about your transmission temperature. If not, I wouldn't
> hesitate to run through that New Griffin cooler also.
>
> JMHO,
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 4:27 PM Mark Sawyer via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> So I installed a Griffin radiator on my coach a few years back, and while
>> i did utilize the built in engine oil cooler, the PO of my coach had gone
>> with an external trans cooler. According to my trans temp gauge, the
>> external cooler was working fine, so rather than re-plumbing it, I just
>> plugged
>> the cooler on the Griffin, and left it as is.
>>
>> This past spring, I towed a car on a trip for the first time, and on some
>> of the bigger hills, I noticed the trans temp creeping up more than I
> would
>> like. We have a trip planned for this summer when it will be much
> hotter,
>> so I am thinking of going ahead and running the trans lines to the cooler
>> in the radiator first, then on to the external cooler and back to the
>> pan. I own a heavy duty Ford truck as well, and this is the same
>> arrangement
>> that comes on those from the factory and it works quite well. And while
>> those systems are regulated with a thermostat, I don't really drive my
> coach
>> much unloaded or in cold weather, so I'm not really too worried about
>> over-cooling the system.
>>
>> I also assumed I would pick up quite a bit of cooling capacity by adding
>> in the radiator cooler. Over on one of the Ford Forums, one of the
> factory
>> engineers who designed the 5R110 gearbox posts over there, and I remember
>> reading a writeup he did where he mentioned that the radiator trans
> cooler,
>> though much smaller, actually cooled quite a bit more than the external
>> air to oil cooler due to the greater efficiency of a water to oil cooler.
>>
>> However, while I was looking over how I was going to set this up under
> the
>> coach, I noticed the Griffin is a cross-flow radiator, and that the trans
>> cooler is seemingly on the hot side only. I don't remember anything
> about
>> the Griffin being a dual pass or multi-pass radiator, so now I'm kind of
>> debating whether to go ahead with my plan to run the 2 coolers in series,
>> or update the existing external trans cooler to a larger one and
> continuing
>> to bypass the radiator cooler.
>>
>> Anyone have any thoughts on this or know if the Griffin is a multi-pass
>> radiator or has something else in it's trans cooler design to get the oil
>> over
>> to the cool side of the radiator?
>> --
>> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
>> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
>> Howell Injection,
>> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
>> Fort Worth, TX
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Question on Griffin Radiator [message #355258 is a reply to message #355251] |
Sat, 30 May 2020 22:46 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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As Jim K recommends go to Appendix 8-1 in section 8. Our transmission temp is typically about 165 Deg. F going down the road towing. I use the radiator cooler plus have a large Hayden flat plane cooler in series. I am with Jim when it comes to keeping the ATF cool. I also do a fluid change every 3 years or so depending on the miles driven. Fluid is cheap and transmission are not. I buy by bulk either 2 or 5 gallon containers and I buy typically at Tractor Supply Co, runs aprox $35 for a 2 gal container of the Traveller Brand. There are many who swear by the high dollar synthetic brands, but as I said I change often and check the pan for disk dust in the bottom. I may not change my filter every time that I change oil. I acquired a number of the AC Delco TF169 filters several years ago so I am still able to go factory on the filters.
JR Wright
> On May 30, 2020, at 8:07 PM, Jim Kanomata via Gmclist wrote:
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 2:56 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Mark,
>> Roy is very correct when he mentioned that possibly the trans cooler on
>> the radiator was not being used as there could have been trans damage that
>> caused debris to the cooler.
>
> c
>
>>
>> Go to www.bdub.net and download the Chevrolet P-30 Chassis Owners Manual
>> which he has posted there. One of the appendices covers adding external
>> oil coolers. It includes a table showing ATF life versus Average
>> temperature. You'll probably find from the text and chart that you're
>> overly concerned about your transmission temperature. If not, I wouldn't
>> hesitate to run through that New Griffin cooler also.
>>
>> JMHO,
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 4:27 PM Mark Sawyer via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> So I installed a Griffin radiator on my coach a few years back, and while
>>> i did utilize the built in engine oil cooler, the PO of my coach had gone
>>> with an external trans cooler. According to my trans temp gauge, the
>>> external cooler was working fine, so rather than re-plumbing it, I just
>>> plugged
>>> the cooler on the Griffin, and left it as is.
>>>
>>> This past spring, I towed a car on a trip for the first time, and on some
>>> of the bigger hills, I noticed the trans temp creeping up more than I
>> would
>>> like. We have a trip planned for this summer when it will be much
>> hotter,
>>> so I am thinking of going ahead and running the trans lines to the cooler
>>> in the radiator first, then on to the external cooler and back to the
>>> pan. I own a heavy duty Ford truck as well, and this is the same
>>> arrangement
>>> that comes on those from the factory and it works quite well. And while
>>> those systems are regulated with a thermostat, I don't really drive my
>> coach
>>> much unloaded or in cold weather, so I'm not really too worried about
>>> over-cooling the system.
>>>
>>> I also assumed I would pick up quite a bit of cooling capacity by adding
>>> in the radiator cooler. Over on one of the Ford Forums, one of the
>> factory
>>> engineers who designed the 5R110 gearbox posts over there, and I remember
>>> reading a writeup he did where he mentioned that the radiator trans
>> cooler,
>>> though much smaller, actually cooled quite a bit more than the external
>>> air to oil cooler due to the greater efficiency of a water to oil cooler.
>>>
>>> However, while I was looking over how I was going to set this up under
>> the
>>> coach, I noticed the Griffin is a cross-flow radiator, and that the trans
>>> cooler is seemingly on the hot side only. I don't remember anything
>> about
>>> the Griffin being a dual pass or multi-pass radiator, so now I'm kind of
>>> debating whether to go ahead with my plan to run the 2 coolers in series,
>>> or update the existing external trans cooler to a larger one and
>> continuing
>>> to bypass the radiator cooler.
>>>
>>> Anyone have any thoughts on this or know if the Griffin is a multi-pass
>>> radiator or has something else in it's trans cooler design to get the oil
>>> over
>>> to the cool side of the radiator?
>>> --
>>> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
>>> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
>>> Howell Injection,
>>> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
>>> Fort Worth, TX
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.gmcrvparts.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: Question on Griffin Radiator [message #356781 is a reply to message #355212] |
Tue, 14 July 2020 17:35 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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Thanks very much everyone for the replies. Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this thread... Got busy on some other projects, and just now getting back to this....
Scott: normally the coach reads below 200 trans temp on my gauge, but this trip I saw 2 hills where the temp climbed up to 220-230 momentarily before coming back down after I eased out of the throttle.
Matt: I took another look and I see what you are saying about the factory cooler being on the cold side... I had it wrong in my head as well for some reason...
So I'm sold on running the primary cooler then on to the existing aux cooler and back to the trans routing, which means I need to make new lines... The existing lines appear to be 5/16, but from what I read, a 3/8" line is better in this application, and since I'm redoing most of the line, I might was well do it all in 3/8....
Was thinking of going with Nicopp tubing as it is corrosion resistant, and much easier to work with then stainless.
However, I'm not sure what fitting size is needed on either the trans or the factory cooler ends of the line... Would flaring the tubing with the appropriate size fitting the same way you would a brake line be the best method of terminating the 3/8" hard lines? Or would some sort of compression fitting be best? Either way, does anyone know the appropriate fitting sizes on the trans and factory coolers as well as what kind flare or flare fitting would be needed?
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: Question on Griffin Radiator [message #356785 is a reply to message #355212] |
Tue, 14 July 2020 23:07 |
Scott Nutter
Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Mark,
I have no idea where the red band temp on these trannys are, but I would think 220-230 would be a little excessive or at least approaching it. But I just don’t know...
Mine runs between 110*-170* but has never exceeded 175*.And that’s With towing a Tracker. I have the Griffin radiator but I don’t run my tranny line to it. The previous owner installed a radiator from some 80’s Nissan with a built in fan that I run my tranny line to. It might sound funky, but it works real well!
But it’s smart to be concerned about those temps.
Scott.
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
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