Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » GMC's with salvage title?
| GMC's with salvage title? [message #352557] |
Wed, 04 March 2020 09:28  |
GMC Chris
Messages: 3
Registered: March 2020
Location: Sellersburg, Indiana
Karma: -1
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Junior Member |
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Hey gang, this is my first post on the site. I blame YouTube for my newfound addiction to these coaches, as that site will often show you videos based on others you've watched. One GMC video led to about 100 others, and here I am. I've spent weeks on all the GMC forums, sites, vendor pages, etc and am completely hooked on having one of these coaches.
A little more backstory before my question. I'm looking at one of these for weekends and occasional long trips (8-900 miles each way), as my wife has some medical problems that prevent her from being able to sit in a car or any other seat for extended periods of time. We also like the idea of being able to take 'home' with us on vacation and skip the hotels, possible bed bugs, and hassle that goes along with it. I'm a hair past 50, but have spent most of my adult life fixing things when I'm not at work. Over the past 30 years I've tackled almost any kind of automotive problem you could have except transmission work - engine rebuilds, A/C overhauls, electrical issues, interior work, you name it on a wide variety of cars. When I was younger I rebuilt several old Mustangs, so the 'old school' tech of a 455/403 is in my wheelhouse and I'm not afraid to tackle anything on one of these coaches mechanically.
All that said, I'm looking for a < 10k project to scratch my 'enjoy fixing things' itch and end up with a nice coach down the road after some hard work. I realize there's a host of things I'll have to tackle, like fuel and brake lines, fuel and holding tanks, a likely fidgety Onan, 455 manifolds/rebuild, front end work, air suspension, etc. I'm not under some illusion that I will buy a project and be on the road in 6 months.
That said, here's my question. Not far from me, a guy is selling 2 coaches in a package deal.
One is a 76 Eleganza, running and driving, needs paint and the interior is partially unbolted but all still sitting in the coach. However, the coach has a salvage title - running the TZE number shows collision damage/total loss almost 20 years ago. The only sign of past possible repair is just forward of the driver's side rear wheels where the stripes are gone and a semi-matching paint or primer was applied.
The other coach is a 77 Eleganza (assuming this is a 403, while I'm sure the 76 has a 455). It hasnt been run in several years, but the exterior paint/appearance is miles better than the 76. Interior was removed then just put back in the coach as it was a resto project where the owner lost interest/time/motivation. The title for this coach is supposed to be clear, but when I ran the TZE for it on the NICB website it also shows a total loss from nearly 20 years ago for flood damage.
Both coaches can be had for under 5k total. However, can you even insure a coach with a rebuilt title? In the case of the flood coach, I'm well aware of the implications of flood damage, and how high the water got would have determined how much of the house electricals may be damaged beyond repair (assuming they weren't fixed correctly after it got wet), and/or rot in wooden floor from being wet.
I've been all over the GMC facebook marketplace, Jim Bound's place, and craigslist so I know a solid project coach isn't too hard to come by for 3-7,000. So would either of these be worth any investment at all based on the experience of this group?
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| Re: GMC's with salvage title? [message #352558 is a reply to message #352557] |
Wed, 04 March 2020 09:38  |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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I would say yes. Check with your insurance company on the salvage title issue, but if that isn't a problem (and I don't see why it would be), and you are going in with your eyes wide open, it sounds like a potential good deal.
Be prepared to spend a lot more time and money than you are anticipating though. Check things like frame rust, etc. The '77 might have a 455 in it, they were still available for the first part of production, but a 403 seems to be more than adequate and even preferred by some of the people who have them.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: GMC's with salvage title? [message #352564 is a reply to message #352558] |
Wed, 04 March 2020 13:57 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Your profile says Indiana but not where. The are quite a few GMcers around in Indiana but before they volunteer to help they, including me, would like to know where we are volunteering for. About an hour I just got back from a trip just to just across the Ohio river in KY. It was 396 miles one way. We would like to know where you are.
There are salvage and repaired titles in Indiana. Salvage titles say that some insurance company owned it for what ever reason. If it was a stolen recovery with no damage and the company already paid he owner off, then it is a salvage title. That is no different than one that is badly smashed or was in a fire.
A repaired title in Indiana says someone took a savage vehicle, repaired it back to roadworthy condition, and had it inspected by the titling state. These inspections vary greatly from state to state. Once it has a repaired title by any state it can be then transferred or sold to an other state and maintain the repaired title. It is branded for life as repaired.
In some states there is a separate category for flooded vehicles. And in some states flooded vehicles can not returned to a repaired title. All people do in those cases is to apply for a title in a state that does allow them to be titled as repaired again.
I once worked a deal with a guy in southern California who could not get a repaired title so he was selling the vehicle cheap "for export only". I had him take pictures of the damage and then the repaired vehicle. He also supplied receipts for the parts used. I then had someone authorized to "inspect" the vehicle in a different state sign it off on it and we got him a repaired title. There really was not much damage. We sent him the repaired title and California had to accept it. He kept the vehicle for his own use which which is the reason he bought it in the first place.
The only draw back of owning a repaired vehicle with a branded title is if you total it a second time, the insurance companies can and will reduce the vehicle value somewhere between 15% and 35%. The way you get around that problem is to take out an Agreed Value policy where you you and the company agree what that value is ahead of time. Many GMCers have agreed value polities because the values of our coaches vary widely for one to the next. To do so you need to get an appraisal from a reputable dealer and summit it to your insurance company when you take out the insurance. Jim K. at Applied GMC can, for a fee, give you a realistic appraisal that will meet your insurance company's requirements.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: GMC's with salvage title? [message #352567 is a reply to message #352565] |
Wed, 04 March 2020 16:59 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Chris,
Welcome to the group, family, cult, asylum......
By now I guess you know that you are not the first person to be bitten by this bug.
There is not much that I can not tell you about the salvage title in Indiana, in most states a salvage title is used by insurance companies so they can hope someone won't drive a vehicle that has been declared unroadworthy on the roads again and then they have to cover it again. You will have to inquire at the proper state offices to find out what it takes in Indiana to get a renewed title for said vehicle. I know that we have several owners (including KenB) that had coaches declared a total loss and are still registered today.
The value you are starting at for those coaches is about right. A coach that CAN be driven at all is 2~3k$. But be sure to inspect the frame at that price. If you have any at all for wood working skills, you can build an interior that will be at least as good as most of the GM/Gemini or GM-only and just a little short of the best Coachman.
We have a line we use here all the time and it keeps getting proved true...
"A reliable and ready to travel GMC will cost about 30K$. All at once or as a kit."
Please notice that "as a kit" part. What it does not say and has also proved very true is that sweat gets billed in at FULL SHOP RATE. Even in southern Indiana, that is at least 100$/hr. So, by the time you clean up either (or both) of these coaches and build an interior or re-install what is there, I can pretty much guarantee that you will be there. When you look at the sweat to cash ratio, I would bet that you can have the better one fully reliable for less than another 5K in cash and 200 hours work.
I also acquired our coach "advantageously". If I had known about and understood the above equation, it would not have change a thing, but I would have felt better. And No, I did not beat the equation and we have a coach that we love.
Two things you should do:
First is go up to <Control Panel/Account Settings> and then to <Preferences>. You will find a box to fill in a signature file. Fill that in with a real name (we like to know who we are helping), and a good geographic reference. When you joined this group, you became part of a supportive and helping community. We all want you to be a success. When you can, include what you can about your coach(es), but right now that is not essential.
Second is to try to hook up with the chapter of local owners. You will get an amazing amount of support when you do. You are at the southern edge of Greatlakers and real close to Dixielanders. You will again find amazing support there.
This is a community of helping and supporting people that you probably do not know the like of. Most of us have benefited from that support at one time or another. Some of us, like me, in very big ways.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: GMC's with salvage title? [message #352572 is a reply to message #352567] |
Wed, 04 March 2020 18:30 |
Melbo
Messages: 144
Registered: August 2018
Location: Albuquerque NM
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I did a complete restoration on a car with a salvage title and had it licensed and insured in New Mexico. When I went to sell it was the issue. Teh car was fine BUT any buyers I talked to balked. I gave the car to a friend of mine and he has it titled and insured in another state. I don't know if the salvage title was cleared or it still is a salvage title.
Just my experience yours may be different.
HTH
Melbo
Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
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| Re: GMC's with salvage title? [message #352575 is a reply to message #352572] |
Wed, 04 March 2020 20:26 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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That is the problem. Various states handle salvage titles in various different ways. There was a time that salvage title cars around here got sent south where they were re-titled with clean titles and sent back north again.
I have a friend with a once flooded Ford Explorer Sport Trac. He bought it, dried it out, and did noting else to it. He took it to Michigan and got a repaired title because the Indiana inspector would not approve it without the branding of once flooded vehicle. So he re-titled in in Michigan without the flood branding. There really was nothing wrong with it. He has been driving that vehicle for about 5 years now with an Indiana title and no flood branding. Because the truck was originally salvaged in a 3rd state, Indiana has no idea it ever happened.
The insurance companies are a different story. They have access to a shared data base that shows it was once flooded.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with salvage title? [message #352580 is a reply to message #352575] |
Wed, 04 March 2020 20:42 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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getnewtitle.com
> On Mar 4, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Burton via Gmclist wrote:
>
> That is the problem. Various states handle salvage titles in various different ways. There was a time that salvage title cars around here got sent
> south where they were re-titled with clean titles and sent back north again.
>
> I have a friend with a once flooded Ford Explorer Sport Trac. He bought it, dried it out, and did noting else to it. He took it to Michigan and got
> a repaired title because the Indiana inspector would not approve it without the branding of once flooded vehicle. So he re-titled in in Michigan
> without the flood branding. There really was nothing wrong with it. He has been driving that vehicle for about 5 years now with an Indiana title and
> no flood branding. Because the truck was originally salvaged in a 3rd state, Indiana has no idea it ever happened.
>
> The insurance companies are a different story. They have access to a shared data base that shows it was once flooded.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: GMC's with salvage title? [message #352581 is a reply to message #352557] |
Thu, 05 March 2020 07:49 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Depending the age - GMCs qualify - you can title it in Georgia on a bill of sale. No idea what your inshoance company might say about value, I self insure and only buy liability.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: GMC's with salvage title? [message #352589 is a reply to message #352581] |
Thu, 05 March 2020 12:56 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Georgia and Mississippi years ago are where locals use to take cars and re-title them on a bill of sale before they were returned here to be titled again with a clean local state title. I do not know if that is still done. In past decades a lot of stolen cars went south and returned with clean new titles.
So what Johnny says sounds like a way to get it done.
If all you need is a duplicate title, then here the state will issue one to the on record owner for $5.00. If you are not the on record owner then it still can be done but the process varies. If it is shown as an in state owner then the registered owner is sent a registered letter. If there is no answer then the car is put up for auction. You also put up a claim (lien) against the vehicle for either work done or storage fees. Make the fees high enough and no one else will bid so the state issues you a new title and a new VIN.
If the former owner is unknown and not in state data base, then an inquiry is sent to the 4 neighboring states to us. If a former owner is found then they get a registered letter. If not found, the vehicle goes to immediate auction. We do that a lot here with old motorcycles. I have two in my hangar that we need to do someday. It usually costs $150 to $200 to get it all done.
Unlike stolen vehicle reports, there is no central repository for title / registration information across state lines. The NCIC (federal) tracks stolen reports only and not registrations/titles. I had a client once called NATB (National Auto Theft Bureau). It was funded by the insurance companies and they tried to locate vehicles where the government could not. Almost all of their work was across state lines. They had some interesting techniques including aerial surveillance and photographing of legal and non-licensed junk yards. They caught a lot of stuff going to Mexico and to Russia by ship.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: GMC's with salvage title? [message #352596 is a reply to message #352557] |
Fri, 06 March 2020 12:41 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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That's why I said there's a limit on age... newer stuff you need an official title to transfer. You can get one on a rebuilt or a hmebuilt, but it's a hassle like anywhere else now. I think I have the ratrod toad sols, and the buyer gets a signed GA title with it. I bought it on a bill of sale for $10 and Other Valuable Considerations cos I traded an unrestored GMC for it. Took the bill of sale and proof of inshoance to the tag orifice, they got an extra I think $5 and mailed me a GA title for it. I need to do this with the new used pickup.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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