Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352057 is a reply to message #352052] |
Sat, 08 February 2020 20:09   |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I have an S & J engine on my engine stand right now. It is a "long block
rebuild.
The installer needs to call S & J in Spokane, Washington and talk
directly with them. They will in fact do a complete engine, if you send
them a complete engine and specify that is want when you order it. Your
choice of upgrades will be fitted if that is your choice. BE ABSOLUTELY
SURE THAT YOU TELL THEM THAT IT IS GOING TO BE USED IN A GMC MOTORHOME. I
have installed a number of their engines. Good company. They do have strict
rules for the installers.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020, 5:35 PM Jon Roche via Gmclist
wrote:
> Gary- look me up On the black list. In MN. and have your friend give me
> a call. Six one two. 961 - four one nine six.
>
> I have about 5000 miles on my S&J 455.
>
> The company is out of spokane, washington. They will ship you an engine
> and then you ship the core back.
>
> Their engine generally "is not complete". Shows up with just
> block/heads. You have to swap over your intake, oil pan ect.
>
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/2019/01/engine-2018.html?m=1
>
>
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/2019/01/engine-2018-continued.html?m=1
>
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| [GMCnet] Fwd: Engine Rebuild [message #352058 is a reply to message #352057] |
Sat, 08 February 2020 20:16 |
Rollerg
Messages: 111
Registered: November 2014
Location: Marysville, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks guys for the very helpful information. I have recently been able to locate so far 9 GMCers in the Reno area that we are beginning to network with.
I already have leads on 2 more.
Thanks again.
Gary Coaster / Reno, NV
1977 GMC Eleganza ll
GMC RV Day Night Shade Sales
GMCShades@gmail.com
www.GMCMotorhomemarketplace.com/GMC_Shades/
Begin forwarded message:
> From: James Hupy via Gmclist
> Date: February 8, 2020 at 6:05:40 PM PST
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Cc: James Hupy
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild
> Reply-To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
>
> I have an S & J engine on my engine stand right now. It is a "long block
> rebuild.
> The installer needs to call S & J in Spokane, Washington and talk
> directly with them. They will in fact do a complete engine, if you send
> them a complete engine and specify that is want when you order it. Your
> choice of upgrades will be fitted if that is your choice. BE ABSOLUTELY
> SURE THAT YOU TELL THEM THAT IT IS GOING TO BE USED IN A GMC MOTORHOME. I
> have installed a number of their engines. Good company. They do have strict
> rules for the installers.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
>
>> On Sat, Feb 8, 2020, 5:35 PM Jon Roche via Gmclist
>> wrote:
>>
>> Gary- look me up On the black list. In MN. and have your friend give me
>> a call. Six one two. 961 - four one nine six.
>>
>> I have about 5000 miles on my S&J 455.
>>
>> The company is out of spokane, washington. They will ship you an engine
>> and then you ship the core back.
>>
>> Their engine generally "is not complete". Shows up with just
>> block/heads. You have to swap over your intake, oil pan ect.
>>
>> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/2019/01/engine-2018.html?m=1
>>
>>
>> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/2019/01/engine-2018-continued.html?m=1
>>
>> --
>> Jon Roche
>> 75 palm beach
>> EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
>> St. Cloud, MN
>> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Fwd: Engine Rebuild [message #352078 is a reply to message #352058] |
Sun, 09 February 2020 11:21 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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A word to the wise don't use superior machine in Reno .Aggie will talk your ear off about how good he is with olds cylinder heads but don't believe him the heads he did for me I wound up removing in a camp ground and getting done at another shop so I could get home.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352219 is a reply to message #352051] |
Sun, 16 February 2020 14:21 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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Rollerg wrote on Sat, 08 February 2020 16:36I have a fellow GMCer in Reno looking to rebuild his 403 engine on a 1978 Royale.
I suggested S&J but need some feedback and there location.
Gary Coaster / Reno, NV
1977 GMC Eleganza ll
GMC RV Day Night Shade Sales
GMCShades@gmail.com
www.GMCMotorhomemarketplace.com/GMC_Shades/
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I hope S&J is the answer as I have a 455 on the way. They are in Washington state and it is $175 shipping to San José. (each way)
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352226 is a reply to message #352219] |
Mon, 17 February 2020 11:13 |
Bill Van Vlack
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
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Senior Member |
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I have heard of some recent rebuilt engine failures where the rebuilder questioned the owners' installation and break-in procedures even though it was proven - at least to the owner through inspection and oil tests, and in one case the repair shop that did the R&R - obviously a rebuild failure. Would be interested in what kind of installation, break-in, and documentation measures should be followed to defend against that kind of situation. At the risk of suggesting things that can make the project more complicated and expensive, I can think of a couple..
Have a reputable and financially secure repair shop install the engine so that warranty discussions are between the shop and the rebuilder, then follow both party's break-in requirements to the letter, with documentation.
Install a new external oil cooler or have the radiator rebuilt with new coolers. Flush or replace all external oil lines.
If you have the EBL system you can record operating parameters during break-in. Consider adding an oil pressure sensor as one of the analog inputs.
If the rebuild fails, hire an independent mechanic to inspect the installation before removal and then disassemble the engine and inspect the internals. Better yet, have the engine rebuilder's representative and your own mechanic disassemble the engine together.
Anyone else have some recommendations?
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352231 is a reply to message #352226] |
Mon, 17 February 2020 13:55 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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no one wins if an engine fails. there will be lots of finger pointing, and no matter what whoever paid looses.
Even if you can fight and get a new engine, you lost confidence, ect... and still lost.
I bought the extended warranty, more to ward off Murphy. I had no hopes it was going to protect me from a loss. Even if it my engine does blow up, and it determined to be S&J's problem, the loss of time, labor, it only covers portion of that. and there is no amount of money that will cover my loss of confidence in an engine.
I did a "self install" that cut my warranty coverage down, but I only trust myself on how it was installed. I have seen plenty of "certified install facility" install's done, that I did not care for.
engine rebuilds are a gamble. it can be a very calculated gamble, and there are things you need to do to minimize the risk of engine failure, but that chance is always there. I have seen some of the best fail.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352235 is a reply to message #352231] |
Mon, 17 February 2020 22:03 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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We quit supplying engines as I felt we had to make it right and ended going
backward.
We now let owners squire them and we do install and removal.
On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 11:56 AM Jon Roche via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> no one wins if an engine fails. there will be lots of finger pointing,
> and no matter what whoever paid looses.
>
> Even if you can fight and get a new engine, you lost confidence, ect...
> and still lost.
>
> I bought the extended warranty, more to ward off Murphy. I had no hopes
> it was going to protect me from a loss. Even if it my engine does blow
> up, and it determined to be S&J's problem, the loss of time, labor, it
> only covers portion of that. and there is no amount of money that will
> cover my loss of confidence in an engine.
>
> I did a "self install" that cut my warranty coverage down, but I only
> trust myself on how it was installed. I have seen plenty of "certified
> install facility" install's done, that I did not care for.
>
> engine rebuilds are a gamble. it can be a very calculated gamble, and
> there are things you need to do to minimize the risk of engine failure, but
> that chance is always there. I have seen some of the best fail.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352239 is a reply to message #352235] |
Tue, 18 February 2020 00:33 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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It is always hard to trust the person doing the rebuild has checked all clearances and torque values. Using quality parts is another concern. If the original engine had a bearing failure I would never trust the existing oil cooler even if it were cleaned and back flushed one tiny piece of metal could wipe out a fresh engine cleanliness is very important .
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352247 is a reply to message #352241] |
Tue, 18 February 2020 10:42 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Many of us feel that a swap from a 403 to a 455 is not an upgrade, not even
an even- Steven swap. But, we might be a minority.(GRIN)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 4:13 AM Michael Hunt via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Why not upgrade to a 455?
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 1:34 AM roy keen via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> It is always hard to trust the person doing the rebuild has checked all
>> clearances and torque values. Using quality parts is another concern. If
> the
>> original engine had a bearing failure I would never trust the existing
> oil
>> cooler even if it were cleaned and back flushed one tiny piece of metal
>> could wipe out a fresh engine cleanliness is very important .
>> --
>> Roy Keen
>> Minden,NV
>> 76 X Glenbrook
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352352 is a reply to message #352247] |
Mon, 24 February 2020 07:16 |
Michael Hunt
Messages: 6
Registered: April 2019
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Why not? I would think the 455 would give you more horsepowerxand towing
capacity.
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 11:39 AM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Many of us feel that a swap from a 403 to a 455 is not an upgrade, not even
> an even- Steven swap. But, we might be a minority.(GRIN)
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 4:13 AM Michael Hunt via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Why not upgrade to a 455?
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 1:34 AM roy keen via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It is always hard to trust the person doing the rebuild has checked all
>>> clearances and torque values. Using quality parts is another concern.
> If
>> the
>>> original engine had a bearing failure I would never trust the existing
>> oil
>>> cooler even if it were cleaned and back flushed one tiny piece of metal
>>> could wipe out a fresh engine cleanliness is very important .
>>> --
>>> Roy Keen
>>> Minden,NV
>>> 76 X Glenbrook
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352360 is a reply to message #352352] |
Mon, 24 February 2020 10:56 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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The 403 is more than up to the task. Several of our GMCers tow extreme
loads with no issues. One tows a long trailer with as many as 3 COPO
Covairs on board thousands of miles per year. With upgrades like final
drive gearing changes, they will git n scat with the best of them, and get
better fuel economy doing it. My 403 cruises easily all day long at 65 mph,
or faster if I am in a hurry. Makes 8 - 11 miles per gallon doing it. Don't
be afraid of them, they are very durable. Mine has never been open, and has
nearly 140,000 miles on it. You would be on your third 454 chev by now, if
that was the engine in your RV. But, the 455 Olds is also a good engine.
You can't really go wrong, no matter which one you choose.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 5:16 AM Michael Hunt via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Why not? I would think the 455 would give you more horsepowerxand towing
> capacity.
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 11:39 AM James Hupy via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Many of us feel that a swap from a 403 to a 455 is not an upgrade, not
> even
>> an even- Steven swap. But, we might be a minority.(GRIN)
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Oregon
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 4:13 AM Michael Hunt via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Why not upgrade to a 455?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 1:34 AM roy keen via Gmclist >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is always hard to trust the person doing the rebuild has checked
> all
>>>> clearances and torque values. Using quality parts is another concern.
>> If
>>> the
>>>> original engine had a bearing failure I would never trust the
> existing
>>> oil
>>>> cooler even if it were cleaned and back flushed one tiny piece of
> metal
>>>> could wipe out a fresh engine cleanliness is very important .
>>>> --
>>>> Roy Keen
>>>> Minden,NV
>>>> 76 X Glenbrook
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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>>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352363 is a reply to message #352352] |
Mon, 24 February 2020 14:20 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I have driven both cross country several times. Up to the Eisenhower tunnel and Trail Ridge Ridge Road (Rocky Mountain National Park) and other places. I have observed absolutely no differences in performance. The only difference I have observed is when I open the hatch to work on one. The 403 is much easier to work on because of it's smaller outside dimensions.
My personal coach is a 455. The coach currently in my hangar that we are restoring is a 403.
I did, years ago, help a little on a swap from a 455 to a 403. The biggest differences were the oil filter adapter and lines, and the radiator hoses. There may have been other things that I have forgotten.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352366 is a reply to message #352051] |
Mon, 24 February 2020 14:57 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Me too, Jim! I consider that the addition of the 3:70 gears in my final
drive was absolutely the single best upgrade that I have done to my coach.
As well as the return on investment. My fuel economy actually improved at
least by 1 mpg.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 12:43 PM Jim Kanomata via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> There is one thing they are not telling you, that you must know, that the
> gear ratio need to be 3.70 to put one in the torque range that both the 404
> and 455 need to run at in order for it to pull at 60-70 mph.
> Walt Hally,Mugil Mendes,Rick Flanagan, Wally Anderson and over 3,000 are
> running the 3.70 .
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I have driven both cross country several times. Up to the Eisenhower
>> tunnel and Trail Ridge Ridge Road (Rocky Mountain National Park) and
> other
>> places. I have observed absolutely no differences in performance. The
>> only difference I have observed is when I open the hatch to work on one.
>> The
>> 403 is much easier to work on because of it's smaller outside dimensions.
>>
>>
>> My personal coach is a 455. The coach currently in my hangar that we are
>> restoring is a 403.
>>
>> I did, years ago, help a little on a swap from a 455 to a 403. The
>> biggest differences were the oil filter adapter and lines, and the
> radiator
>> hoses.
>> There may have been other things that I have forgotten.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.gmcrvparts.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352367 is a reply to message #352363] |
Mon, 24 February 2020 14:42 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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There is one thing they are not telling you, that you must know, that the
gear ratio need to be 3.70 to put one in the torque range that both the 404
and 455 need to run at in order for it to pull at 60-70 mph.
Walt Hally,Mugil Mendes,Rick Flanagan, Wally Anderson and over 3,000 are
running the 3.70 .
On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I have driven both cross country several times. Up to the Eisenhower
> tunnel and Trail Ridge Ridge Road (Rocky Mountain National Park) and other
> places. I have observed absolutely no differences in performance. The
> only difference I have observed is when I open the hatch to work on one.
> The
> 403 is much easier to work on because of it's smaller outside dimensions.
>
>
> My personal coach is a 455. The coach currently in my hangar that we are
> restoring is a 403.
>
> I did, years ago, help a little on a swap from a 455 to a 403. The
> biggest differences were the oil filter adapter and lines, and the radiator
> hoses.
> There may have been other things that I have forgotten.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine Rebuild [message #352371 is a reply to message #352247] |
Mon, 24 February 2020 16:05 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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James Hupy wrote on Tue, 18 February 2020 10:42Many of us feel that a swap from a 403 to a 455 is not an upgrade, not even
an even- Steven swap. But, we might be a minority.(GRIN)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
I agree, Jim. My all original 403 has 160,000 on it and still running strong. About 30,000 miles ago, I did have to open the top end on one side to replace a valve but nothing else. With 3.70 gears, the 403 is in it's sweet spot and just purrs at 60 to 70 mph running up around 3,000 rpms. I tow all the time with no problem with get up and go. I can usually outpull a stock 455 up about any grade. Love my 403 and will not entertain switching when I finally need to replace the 403. Now, I need to find a lot of wood to knock on...ha! ha!.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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