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Need your opinions guys.... [message #350935] Wed, 25 December 2019 13:14 Go to next message
6cuda6 is currently offline  6cuda6   Canada
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So i was working on wiring up my Honda EV6010 yesterday and it dawned on me that its a 50amp unit [no 30/20amp split like the later ones] but the coach is set up for 30amps.....what would you do? And if you were going to change something what would be the best course of action to do it.

I may be thinking about this to hard and it really might not matter but im not taking a chance when there is such vast knowledge and expertise out there to bounce this off of.....


Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600
Re: Need your opinions guys.... [message #350937 is a reply to message #350935] Wed, 25 December 2019 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tom Lins is currently offline  Tom Lins   United States
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6cuda6 wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 14:14
So i was working on wiring up my Honda EV6010 yesterday and it dawned on me that its a 50amp unit [no 30/20amp split like the later ones] but the coach is set up for 30amps.....what would you do? And if you were going to change something what would be the best course of action to do it.

I may be thinking about this to hard and it really might not matter but im not taking a chance when there is such vast knowledge and expertise out there to bounce this off of.....

Do you mean that it does not have the two breakers for the output?
One of them 30 amp and the other 20 amp?



Tom Lins
St Augustine, FL
77 GM Rear Twin, Dry Bath, 455, Aluminum Radiator Quad-Bag Suspension Solar Panel
Manuals on DVD
YOUTUBE Channel: GMC Dealer Training Tapes
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Re: [GMCnet] Need your opinions guys.... [message #350939 is a reply to message #350935] Wed, 25 December 2019 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
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Voltage at batter does no mean much.
Lot of the connectors are corroded.
You need. Real experience to know these things.
That is the difference between a degreed engineer and a technician with
experience.
I put aside my degree and rely on my technical experience since my teens.

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 11:14 AM tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> So i was working on wiring up my Honda EV6010 yesterday and it dawned on
> me that its a 50amp unit [no 30/20amp split like the later ones] but the
> coach is set up for 30amps.....what would you do? And if you were going to
> change something what would be the best course of action to do it.
>
> I may be thinking about this to hard and it really might not matter but im
> not taking a chance when there is such vast knowledge and expertise out
> there to bounce this off of.....
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: Need your opinions guys.... [message #350940 is a reply to message #350935] Wed, 25 December 2019 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Melbo is currently offline  Melbo   United States
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Just protect everything after the generator with an appropriate sized breaker. The line side wire to a 30 just needs to be rated for the disconnect before that (ie from the generator to the breaker should be rated for the 50 amps if that is the breaker size on the generator) anything after the 30 amp main breaker needs to be sized for it. Just be sure that the wires connected to any breaker are rated for the amp rating of the breaker.

Where this gets dicey in my opinion is someone makes up a 20 amp circuit and wires it with 12ga thwn and someone else ties into the circuit and uses 14ga wire which is only rated for 15 amps. Now the 14ga wire can be over loaded because it is protected by a 20 amp breaker.

I hope this makes at least a little sense. Best to be safe with the electric systems. No one likes a hot skin condition or under sized circuit on a motorhome.

HTH

Melbo


Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
Re: Need your opinions guys.... [message #350941 is a reply to message #350937] Wed, 25 December 2019 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
6cuda6 is currently offline  6cuda6   Canada
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Yes.... according to the great folks at PPP this unit is a direct 50amp so one breaker and not the 30 amp/20amp breaker setup like the later units....

Tom Lins wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 14:26
6cuda6 wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 14:14
So i was working on wiring up my Honda EV6010 yesterday and it dawned on me that its a 50amp unit [no 30/20amp split like the later ones] but the coach is set up for 30amps.....what would you do? And if you were going to change something what would be the best course of action to do it.

I may be thinking about this to hard and it really might not matter but im not taking a chance when there is such vast knowledge and expertise out there to bounce this off of.....
Do you mean that it does not have the two breakers for the output?
One of them 30 amp and the other 20 amp?



Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600
Re: Need your opinions guys.... [message #350942 is a reply to message #350940] Wed, 25 December 2019 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
6cuda6 is currently offline  6cuda6   Canada
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So if i was to just wire it up as is......

I have the stock 50amp breaker coming out of the generator...the plug setup is the standard 30amp three prong that gets connected to a normal 30amp shore power cord that is wired to a 30amp breaker in the breaker panel etc....


Melbo wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 14:31
Just protect everything after the generator with an appropriate sized breaker. The line side wire to a 30 just needs to be rated for the disconnect before that (ie from the generator to the breaker should be rated for the 50 amps if that is the breaker size on the generator) anything after the 30 amp main breaker needs to be sized for it. Just be sure that the wires connected to any breaker are rated for the amp rating of the breaker.

Where this gets dicey in my opinion is someone makes up a 20 amp circuit and wires it with 12ga thwn and someone else ties into the circuit and uses 14ga wire which is only rated for 15 amps. Now the 14ga wire can be over loaded because it is protected by a 20 amp breaker.

I hope this makes at least a little sense. Best to be safe with the electric systems. No one likes a hot skin condition or under sized circuit on a motorhome.

HTH

Melbo


Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600
Re: [GMCnet] Need your opinions guys.... [message #350943 is a reply to message #350939] Wed, 25 December 2019 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
6cuda6 is currently offline  6cuda6   Canada
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Jim i've been a mechanic now for 40 years with a back ground in racing and fabrication....i am not an electrician nor do i play with 120/240v AC stuff very often....the stuff i currrently play with is 600 to 900v and over 350amps DC.....hence my question here about a generator that is going to output 120v - 50amps AC when everything is wired for 30amps AC.....common sense says everything should be fine as long as i have a 30amp breaker between the coach and the generator but i just want options and opinions.


jimk wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 14:23
Voltage at batter does no mean much.
Lot of the connectors are corroded.
You need. Real experience to know these things.
That is the difference between a degreed engineer and a technician with
experience.
I put aside my degree and rely on my technical experience since my teens.

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 11:14 AM tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> So i was working on wiring up my Honda EV6010 yesterday and it dawned on
> me that its a 50amp unit [no 30/20amp split like the later ones] but the
> coach is set up for 30amps.....what would you do? And if you were going to
> change something what would be the best course of action to do it.
>
> I may be thinking about this to hard and it really might not matter but im
> not taking a chance when there is such vast knowledge and expertise out
> there to bounce this off of.....
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600
Re: [GMCnet] Need your opinions guys.... [message #350945 is a reply to message #350943] Wed, 25 December 2019 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Senior Member
I know that you start at the source, and protect for the worst case
scenario. Human contact with that source. Fusing, circuit breakers, wire
diameters and insulation thickness all factor in. Protect people first,
then facilities.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Wed, Dec 25, 2019, 12:23 PM tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Jim i've been a mechanic now for 40 years with a back ground in racing and
> fabrication....i am not an electrician nor do i play with 120/240v AC stuff
> very often....the stuff i currrently play with is 600 to 900v and over
> 350amps DC.....hence my question here about a generator that is going to
> output
> 120v - 50amps AC when everything is wired for 30amps AC.....common sense
> says everything should be fine as long as i have a 30amp breaker between the
> coach and the generator but i just want options and opinions.
>
>
> jimk wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 14:23
>> Voltage at batter does no mean much.
>> Lot of the connectors are corroded.
>> You need. Real experience to know these things.
>> That is the difference between a degreed engineer and a technician with
>> experience.
>> I put aside my degree and rely on my technical experience since my teens.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 11:14 AM tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> So i was working on wiring up my Honda EV6010 yesterday and it dawned
> on
>>> me that its a 50amp unit [no 30/20amp split like the later ones] but
> the
>>> coach is set up for 30amps.....what would you do? And if you were
> going to
>>> change something what would be the best course of action to do it.
>>>
>>> I may be thinking about this to hard and it really might not matter
> but im
>>> not taking a chance when there is such vast knowledge and expertise
> out
>>> there to bounce this off of.....
>>> --
>>> Rich Mondor,
>>>
>>> Brockville, ON
>>>
>>> 77 Hughes 2600
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> --
>> Jim Kanomata
>> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
>> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
>> http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
>> 1-800-752-7502
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Need your opinions guys.... [message #350946 is a reply to message #350945] Wed, 25 December 2019 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Melbo is currently offline  Melbo   United States
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Registered: August 2018
Location: Albuquerque NM
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Protecting everything is important. NOTE a 30 amp RV plug is USUALLY a three prong 120 volts A standard 50 amp plug (and RV plug) is TYPICALLY 4 prong and 240 volts. When you go from 50 amps down to 30 amps you typically drop a leg. There is a plug that does that internally. It is a good idea to know if that is the case for your generator. From what I know (and that could be incorrect) that generator operates at 120 volts so you should be fine. If there are four wires that are from the power supply (green white black and red) you have a different animal than I am used to. As long as you only have the three wires (green ground -- white neutral -- and black) everything I have mentioned should be correct. Best to test everything as you go. I want you to be safe. The normal configuration on an RV outlet is ground at the top (the round hole green wire) lower left slot is the hot (the black wire) and the lower right side is the neutral (the white wire). Once again that is looking at the front of the outlet where the cord plugs in. Obviously the back side would be reversed. The screw for the hot wire (black) should be a gold screw and the neutral wire (white) screw should be silver and the ground wire screw (green) should be a green screw although that is not always the case with the ground wire.

HTH

Melbo


Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
Re: [GMCnet] Need your opinions guys.... [message #350948 is a reply to message #350946] Wed, 25 December 2019 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
6cuda6 is currently offline  6cuda6   Canada
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Yes it is a confirmed 120v at 50amp according to PPP....i will test it of course and they also confirmed the connection required for such. Thank you for the info and the direct referencing as it will make it easier to validate what the wiring on the coach side is like. [its a Hughes so i have no schematics other than the GM ones].


Melbo wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 16:08
Protecting everything is important. NOTE a 30 amp RV plug is USUALLY a three prong 120 volts A standard 50 amp plug (and RV plug) is TYPICALLY 4 prong and 240 volts. When you go from 50 amps down to 30 amps you typically drop a leg. There is a plug that does that internally. It is a good idea to know if that is the case for your generator. From what I know (and that could be incorrect) that generator operates at 120 volts so you should be fine. If there are four wires that are from the power supply (green white black and red) you have a different animal than I am used to. As long as you only have the three wires (green ground -- white neutral -- and black) everything I have mentioned should be correct. Best to test everything as you go. I want you to be safe. The normal configuration on an RV outlet is ground at the top (the round hole green wire) lower left slot is the hot (the black wire) and the lower right side is the neutral (the white wire). Once again that is looking at the front of the outlet where the cord plugs in. Obviously the back side would be reversed. The screw for the hot wire (black) should be a gold screw and the neutral wire (white) screw should be silver and the ground wire screw (green) should be a green screw although that is not always the case with the ground wire.

HTH

Melbo


Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600
Re: [GMCnet] Need your opinions guys.... [message #350949 is a reply to message #350946] Wed, 25 December 2019 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
k2gkk is currently offline  k2gkk   United States
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AFAIK, GMC-built coaches have 4 kw or 6 kW Onan generators that put out ONLY 120 Volts. However, that 120 Volts is fed to a split 50 Amp socket with the 120 Volts to both "hot" terminals which in a true 240 Volt system WOULD be Red and Black. You can hook up your 4 conductor cable plug either to the 120 Volts of the Onan generator OR to a true split 120-0-120 Volt 50 Amp outlet and all will work just fine. I have a 50 Amp service RV park outlet on the side of my garage as well as a 120 Volt 30 Amp RV outlet so either type of RV can hook up to my commercial power. I also have a manual switch which can select either commercial power OR an 8000 Watt emergency generator at the back of the house.

D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK​
Since 30 November '53​
USAF and FAA, Retired​
Member GMCMI & Classics​
Oklahoma City, OK​
"The Money Pit"​
TZE166V101966​
'76 ex-Palm Beach​
k2gkk + hotmail dot com

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of melmull--- via Gmclist
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2019 15:08
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Cc: melmull@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Need your opinions guys....

Protecting everything is important. NOTE a 30 amp RV plug is USUALLY a three prong 120 volts A standard 50 amp plug (and RV plug) is TYPICALLY 4
prong and 240 volts. When you go from 50 amps down to 30 amps you typically drop a leg. There is a plug that does that internally. It is a good idea
to know if that is the case for your generator. From what I know (and that could be incorrect) that generator operates at 120 volts so you should be
fine. If there are four wires that are from the power supply (green white black and red) you have a different animal than I am used to. As long as
you only have the three wires (green ground -- white neutral -- and black) everything I have mentioned should be correct. Best to test everything as
you go. I want you to be safe. The normal configuration on an RV outlet is ground at the top (the round hole green wire) lower left slot is the hot
(the black wire) and the lower right side is the neutral (the white wire). Once again that is looking at the front of the outlet where the cord plugs
in. Obviously the back side would be reversed. The screw for the hot wire (black) should be a gold screw and the neutral wire (white) screw should be
silver and the ground wire screw (green) should be a green screw although that is not always the case with the ground wire.

HTH

Melbo
--
Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC

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Re: Need your opinions guys.... [message #350954 is a reply to message #350942] Wed, 25 December 2019 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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6cuda6 wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 15:11
So if i was to just wire it up as is......

I have the stock 50amp breaker coming out of the generator...the plug setup is the standard 30amp three prong that gets connected to a normal 30amp shore power cord that is wired to a 30amp breaker in the breaker panel etc....
Rich,

Your confusion and uncertainty is completely understandable. Wire it up the way it is.

The 50amp possible output of the 6010 is in no way related to the 50amp RV service. The two are very different animals.

Just be sure that everything downstream of the 6010 is good for 50amps. That would be #8AWG (not #8SAE and I have no clue what Canadian wire sizes and types are) and that should be safe enough.

Now, if you have two roof A/C units and might want to run both, come back here are we will have another discussion at great length.

Matt - Back from Christmas dinner with my daughter and family.


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: Need your opinions guys.... [message #350957 is a reply to message #350954] Wed, 25 December 2019 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
6cuda6 is currently offline  6cuda6   Canada
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Registered: June 2019
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Thanks Matt .... i am probably going to add AC unit #2 this spring but not run both at same time on generator.

I was half thinking of wiring it seperate though so my idea was a seperate junction box or dedicated plug to AC #2 in the cable box. So when at a campsite i could plug in to 120/15amps for it or somehow split the 50amp plug out of the outlet into 30/20 and plug it in (so 50 amp male that has 2 cables coming out of it split into 30/20 somehow)

Matt Colie wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 20:15
6cuda6 wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 15:11
So if i was to just wire it up as is......

I have the stock 50amp breaker coming out of the generator...the plug setup is the standard 30amp three prong that gets connected to a normal 30amp shore power cord that is wired to a 30amp breaker in the breaker panel etc....
Rich,

Your confusion and uncertainty is completely understandable. Wire it up the way it is.

The 50amp possible output of the 6010 is in no way related to the 50amp RV service. The two are very different animals.

Just be sure that everything downstream of the 6010 is good for 50amps. That would be #8AWG (not #8SAE and I have no clue what Canadian wire sizes and types are) and that should be safe enough.

Now, if you have two roof A/C units and might want to run both, come back here are we will have another discussion at great length.

Matt - Back from Christmas dinner with my daughter and family.


Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600
Re: [GMCnet] Need your opinions guys.... [message #350960 is a reply to message #350957] Wed, 25 December 2019 20:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
k2gkk is currently offline  k2gkk   United States
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Registered: November 2009
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Senior Member
If all is properly wired, the 6 kW Onan should be able to run two original A/C units.

Mac Macdonald in OKC

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 25, 2019, at 19:42, tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Thanks Matt .... i am probably going to add AC unit #2 this spring but not run both at same time on generator.
>
> I was half thinking of wiring it seperate though so my idea was a seperate junction box or dedicated plug to AC #2 in the cable box. So when at a
> campsite i could plug in to 120/15amps for it or somehow split the 50amp plug out of the outlet into 30/20 and plug it in (so 50 amp male that has 2
> cables coming out of it split into 30/20 somehow)
>
> Matt Colie wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 20:15
>> 6cuda6 wrote on Wed, 25 December 2019 15:11
>>> So if i was to just wire it up as is......
>>>
>>> I have the stock 50amp breaker coming out of the generator...the plug setup is the standard 30amp three prong that gets connected to a
>>> normal 30amp shore power cord that is wired to a 30amp breaker in the breaker panel etc....
>>
>> Rich,
>>
>> Your confusion and uncertainty is completely understandable. Wire it up the way it is.
>>
>> The 50amp possible output of the 6010 is in no way related to the 50amp RV service. The two are very different animals.
>>
>> Just be sure that everything downstream of the 6010 is good for 50amps. That would be #8AWG (not #8SAE and I have no clue what Canadian wire
>> sizes and types are) and that should be safe enough.
>>
>> Now, if you have two roof A/C units and might want to run both, come back here are we will have another discussion at great length.
>>
>> Matt - Back from Christmas dinner with my daughter and family.
>
>
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Re: Need your opinions guys.... [message #350965 is a reply to message #350935] Thu, 26 December 2019 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
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Senior Member
Considering your future plans, I would just switch over to 14-50 format at this time. Switch out the panel, cordset and generator receptacle to 14-50R (jumped L1/L2) , wires from generator to 14-50R upgraded. and use the 50A breaker on the generator Otherwise you are leaving generator power on the table. Some Hondas, I think, were true 125/250 4 wire, but this does not seem the case here with 2 different breaker ratings on the generator. If it was, you could wire it 1 for 1 to the 14-50R. Two hots, neutral, ground, the latter two bonded at generator

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Updated on: Thu, 26 December 2019 08:51]

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Re: Need your opinions guys.... [message #350966 is a reply to message #350965] Thu, 26 December 2019 09:23 Go to previous message
6cuda6 is currently offline  6cuda6   Canada
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I was just actually reviewing this and comparing it to how the Coachmen's were wired with a pony panel from the generator at 50amps then split 30/20....the 30amp leg to the coach and the 20amp leg to A/C....

My option is to do the same or upgrade my current panel to basically the same but all in one box.

My question then becomes do i have to change the shore power cable, the plug for shore power to generator etc? If the answer is yes im going to pony panel it as my 30amp shore power cable is brand new and its probably easier to just add a small breaker box in the generator compartment at this point.

What do you guys think? Nothing at the generator is connected yet, although i have run the conduit, its not hard to change at this point really.


JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 26 December 2019 09:49
Considering your future plans, I would just switch over to 14-50 format at this time. Switch out the panel, cordset and generator receptacle to 14-50R (jumped L1/L2) , wires from generator to 14-50R upgraded. and use the 50A breaker on the generator Otherwise you are leaving generator power on the table. Some Hondas, I think, were true 125/250 4 wire, but this does not seem the case here with 2 different breaker ratings on the generator. If it was, you could wire it 1 for 1 to the 14-50R. Two hots, neutral, ground, the latter two bonded at generator


Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600
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