Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? (Chassis grease)
| How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348514] |
Wed, 25 September 2019 10:43  |
Green machine
Messages: 184
Registered: July 2019
Location: North Vancouver BC
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Continuing on with getting this ole girl happy again I am next going to get into greasing. In my research it seems as though some suggest unloading both the front and rear. I am not really set up to have her elevated yet but would still like to get on with it. Is it crucial? I have shocks on order so I will, at some point, have to get her up in the air. Should I just wait?
Thanks again for sharing your collective wisdom. It has been most helpful.
Cheers,
Shawn
Shawn Harris
North Vancouver,
Canada
1977 Palm Beach 403
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| Re: [GMCnet] How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348516 is a reply to message #348514] |
Wed, 25 September 2019 10:56  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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I feel that greasing the coach is very important.
It is ideal to relieve the pressure to lib properly, but when I see how the
Big Fleet people lib their units without relieving, I say it is more
important to lib it than to Waite for the proper set up.
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:44 AM Shawn Harris via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Continuing on with getting this ole girl happy again I am next going to
> get into greasing. In my research it seems as though some suggest unloading
> both the front and rear. I am not really set up to have her elevated yet
> but would still like to get on with it. Is it crucial? I have shocks on
> order
> so I will, at some point, have to get her up in the air. Should I just
> wait?
>
> Thanks again for sharing your collective wisdom. It has been most helpful.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Shawn
> --
> Shawn Harris
> 1977 Palm Beach 403
> Bone stock - gutted interior
> North Vancouver,
> Canada
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348517 is a reply to message #348514] |
Wed, 25 September 2019 12:32 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
Karma: -6
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I agree with Jim but my thinking is......as an example....we will not be driving our coach anymore this year as it is fall, so im not going to grease it unless im doing some work BUT it will get greased in the spring before it gets put back on the road at which time i will grease as per the recommended procedure.
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348520 is a reply to message #348514] |
Wed, 25 September 2019 14:47 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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The only 2 things you CAN unload are the lower ball joints and the bogie bushings.
Occasionally I put the jack hook and bottle jack on a side in back and blow off all air on that side, then grease. In between (like at a rest stop after 1000 miles or driving in rain or dirt) i grease the rear as it sits.
In front you'd have to put a jack under the lower cont arm to take load off lower joint, but then it's in the way AND I'm not getting under there while on a floor jack, even though it could only re load on the tire. That front balljoint boot holds considerable grease And I only use the Valvoline full synthetic.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348537 is a reply to message #348514] |
Thu, 26 September 2019 11:28 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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That makes no sense. The grease holes are in between the gap in each bushing set. Are your bushings so worn the pin is contacting the arm and pinching off the flow? There is X amount of tolerance in the bushing to pin fit. Loaded all the slop would be at the top of pin. Relieved it may he more evenly distributed.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348539 is a reply to message #348538] |
Thu, 26 September 2019 12:25 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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There may not be seals any more, but they start with them. There is a
O-ring on the pin where it goes through the top-hat bushing, and “seals”
around the edge of the thrust washers that seal against the brim of the
top-hat on one side and the bogie arm on the other. When these seals are
fresh, added grease inflates them, so the seal is working. The original
seals have a square section, but pin kits often include o-rings instead.
JimK sent me the square-section seals when I rebuilt the new bogies I
installed this year.
Granted, the first time I added grease to my old bogies, I saw pieces of
those seals being pushed out, so I doubt very many of us still have them. I
ran it that way for 15 years, hoping my grease-adding was frequent enough
to push dirt out.
Rick “not adding more grease until the new seals wear in a bit” Denney
On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 1:12 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> There are no grease seals or dust shields on the bogie pins. They are
> bolted rigidly to the bogie box. They do not move. The steel backed bronze
> bushings are pressed into the arms, which move less than 1/3 of a turn.
> Matters little whether you Jack up the coach or don't. Grease them until
> you see old grease displaced by fresh grease, wipe off the excess, clean
> your hands and forget about them until next service. JWID
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 9:29 AM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> That makes no sense. The grease holes are in between the gap in each
>> bushing set. Are your bushings so worn the pin is contacting the arm and
>> pinching
>> off the flow? There is X amount of tolerance in the bushing to pin fit.
>> Loaded all the slop would be at the top of pin. Relieved it may he more
>> evenly distributed.
>> --
>> John Lebetski
>> Woodstock, IL
>> 77 Eleganza II
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348540 is a reply to message #348514] |
Thu, 26 September 2019 12:35 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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On the rear: With bogie greasers on newer coaches that have the larger
pins, a squirt from a grease gun in each zerk every kilomile is enough.
With early coaches that feed grease to both bushings from a single hole in
the middle of the pin, the grease will all go to the looser bushing. That
design may benefit from being unloaded and manipulated when adding grease.
I did it that way once in a while but usually not. My bogies were as loose
as a wiggly shopping-cart caster, though, so maybe the damage was already
done. The new ones I just installed are the later type.
I never unloaded the front suspension when I hit all the zerks.
Rick “hard to go wrong with ball joints and tie-rod ends, except for
breaking off the zerk” Denney
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 11:44 AM Shawn Harris via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Continuing on with getting this ole girl happy again I am next going to
> get into greasing. In my research it seems as though some suggest unloading
> both the front and rear. I am not really set up to have her elevated yet
> but would still like to get on with it. Is it crucial? I have shocks on
> order
> so I will, at some point, have to get her up in the air. Should I just
> wait?
>
> Thanks again for sharing your collective wisdom. It has been most helpful.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Shawn
> --
> Shawn Harris
> 1977 Palm Beach 403
> Bone stock - gutted interior
> North Vancouver,
> Canada
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348542 is a reply to message #348537] |
Thu, 26 September 2019 14:02 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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No sense, huh? Imagine a pin through a bushing where the bushing supports
the weight of whatever the bushing is in. With any clearance at all, in a
static condition most of that clearance will be at the lower interface of
the pin & bushing, since the weight (and bushing) are "hanging" from the
pin. Fill all the void between the pin and bushing with grease. Now move
the pin in any direction. The grease MUST move from its static
position into whatever space the pin just left. Do it slow & the grease
will move slowly; do it fast and the grease will move rapidly (or
"fastly"). Of course, this assumes the grease has nowhere else to go, such
as along the pin & bushing toward the worn/missing seals. But that's
inevitable and merely reduces the "auto-distribution" I expect rather than
eliminating it.
I'm sure my pins, which were fitted 'way too tightly, with poorly machined
surfaces, have worn the bushings severely, and possibly completely, during
the past 20 years and maybe 120,000 miles, with my greasing procedure. But
they still move freely and APPARENTLY don't have too much lateral play.
The "swing arm" play is controlled by the true-tracks, so I don't notice
it. The coach rides & drives good, so I'm through worrying. :-)
JWID,
Ken H.
On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:29 PM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> That makes no sense. The grease holes are in between the gap in each
> bushing set. Are your bushings so worn the pin is contacting the arm and
> pinching
> off the flow? There is X amount of tolerance in the bushing to pin fit.
> Loaded all the slop would be at the top of pin. Relieved it may he more
> evenly distributed.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348543 is a reply to message #348542] |
Thu, 26 September 2019 14:20 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Proof of the pudding is in the eatin'. They say. If the back end does not
steer the front, causing the driver to constantly correct for the wind
steer, truck grooves, crown roads, etc. Then I vote for leaving it alone
until it does. Then repair or replace as needed.
If I were designing that rear bogie pin and bushing assembly, I
personally would want the pins to rotate and distribute the wear. Might
want tapered roller bearings in pairs with adjustments, too, although those
bronze bushings can carry an enormous load fitted correctly.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 12:03 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> No sense, huh? Imagine a pin through a bushing where the bushing supports
> the weight of whatever the bushing is in. With any clearance at all, in a
> static condition most of that clearance will be at the lower interface of
> the pin & bushing, since the weight (and bushing) are "hanging" from the
> pin. Fill all the void between the pin and bushing with grease. Now move
> the pin in any direction. The grease MUST move from its static
> position into whatever space the pin just left. Do it slow & the grease
> will move slowly; do it fast and the grease will move rapidly (or
> "fastly"). Of course, this assumes the grease has nowhere else to go, such
> as along the pin & bushing toward the worn/missing seals. But that's
> inevitable and merely reduces the "auto-distribution" I expect rather than
> eliminating it.
>
> I'm sure my pins, which were fitted 'way too tightly, with poorly machined
> surfaces, have worn the bushings severely, and possibly completely, during
> the past 20 years and maybe 120,000 miles, with my greasing procedure. But
> they still move freely and APPARENTLY don't have too much lateral play.
> The "swing arm" play is controlled by the true-tracks, so I don't notice
> it. The coach rides & drives good, so I'm through worrying. :-)
>
> JWID,
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:29 PM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> That makes no sense. The grease holes are in between the gap in each
>> bushing set. Are your bushings so worn the pin is contacting the arm and
>> pinching
>> off the flow? There is X amount of tolerance in the bushing to pin fit.
>> Loaded all the slop would be at the top of pin. Relieved it may he more
>> evenly distributed.
>> --
>> John Lebetski
>> Woodstock, IL
>> 77 Eleganza II
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348544 is a reply to message #348514] |
Thu, 26 September 2019 18:31 |
JR Williams
Messages: 24
Registered: August 2019
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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I'm not sure what's going on, but I can't get grease to go in both lower ball joints! They're only 5 yrs old and damn well acting like it. My gun will not squeeze. Acts like it's clogged or maybe just a fake fitting. I think they're taunting me.
I've tried jacking it up at the lower control arm, nope.
I've tried jacking it up from the center, nope.
I've tried whispering with a soothing tone that I will not steer into potholes, nope.
I've even tried cracking a cold one and offering it to my homies, nope.
So I just smeared grease around the outside and am hoping for the best.
Sincerely, Confused and Betrayed.
JR Williams
JR Williams
St Petersburg FL
77 Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348545 is a reply to message #348544] |
Thu, 26 September 2019 18:36 |
Dave Stragand
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2017
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Sometimes the zero fittings jam. Try replacing one or both fittings. They are very inexpensive.
-Dave
1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh
> On Sep 26, 2019, at 7:34 PM, jronguitar--- via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what's going on, but I can't get grease to go in both lower ball joints! They're only 5 yrs old and damn well acting like it. My gun will
> not squeeze. Acts like it's clogged or maybe just a fake fitting. I think they're taunting me.
>
> I've tried jacking it up at the lower control arm, nope.
>
> I've tried jacking it up from the center, nope.
>
> I've tried whispering with a soothing tone that I will not steer into potholes, nope.
>
> I've even tried cracking a cold one and offering it to my homies, nope.
>
> So I just smeared grease around the outside and am hoping for the best.
>
> Sincerely, Confused and Betrayed.
>
> JR Williams
> --
> JR Williams
> St Petersburg FL
> 77 Birchaven
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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1978 Transmode (403)
Pittsburgh, PA
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| Re: [GMCnet] How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348546 is a reply to message #348544] |
Thu, 26 September 2019 18:41 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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A few years back we (the GMC community) found that the ball in some joints
will touch, and seal, the inner end of the Zerk. Grinding a bit off of the
inner end, and filing a cross slot on the Zerk allows the grease to get
past the ball. This is probably more common than stopped up fittings. Be
sure to flush all the debris from the fitting after working on it.
Let us know if it works.
Ken H.
On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 7:34 PM jronguitar--- via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I'm not sure what's going on, but I can't get grease to go in both lower
> ball joints! They're only 5 yrs old and damn well acting like it. My gun
> will
> not squeeze. Acts like it's clogged or maybe just a fake fitting. I think
> they're taunting me.
>
> I've tried jacking it up at the lower control arm, nope.
>
> I've tried jacking it up from the center, nope.
>
> I've tried whispering with a soothing tone that I will not steer into
> potholes, nope.
>
> I've even tried cracking a cold one and offering it to my homies, nope.
>
> So I just smeared grease around the outside and am hoping for the best.
>
> Sincerely, Confused and Betrayed.
>
> JR Williams
> --
> JR Williams
> St Petersburg FL
> 77 Birchaven
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348547 is a reply to message #348545] |
Thu, 26 September 2019 18:49 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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The fitting threaded portion is so long, that it wedges against the top
plate inside the ball joint. I have encountered this several times. Find a
zerk fitting with a shorter threaded portion, or remove a slight bit from
the threaded portion on the grinder, clean it very thoroughly, and screw it
back in.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 4:37 PM Dave Stragand via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Sometimes the zero fittings jam. Try replacing one or both fittings. They
> are very inexpensive.
>
> -Dave
> 1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh
>
>> On Sep 26, 2019, at 7:34 PM, jronguitar--- via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure what's going on, but I can't get grease to go in both
> lower ball joints! They're only 5 yrs old and damn well acting like it. My
> gun will
>> not squeeze. Acts like it's clogged or maybe just a fake fitting. I
> think they're taunting me.
>>
>> I've tried jacking it up at the lower control arm, nope.
>>
>> I've tried jacking it up from the center, nope.
>>
>> I've tried whispering with a soothing tone that I will not steer into
> potholes, nope.
>>
>> I've even tried cracking a cold one and offering it to my homies, nope.
>>
>> So I just smeared grease around the outside and am hoping for the best.
>>
>> Sincerely, Confused and Betrayed.
>>
>> JR Williams
>> --
>> JR Williams
>> St Petersburg FL
>> 77 Birchaven
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: How important is it to unload the front and rear for greasing? [message #348554 is a reply to message #348514] |
Fri, 27 September 2019 08:11 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Bob Stone had one apart and was explaining it to me over the phone. Perhaps I misunderstood the juxtaposition. I have not needed to work on mine yet You don't fully understand stuff until you take something apart and put it back together.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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