Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Lower radiator hose with spring
| Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348440] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 11:46  |
Scott Nutter
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Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
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According to the parts interchange index, the lower radiator hose Napa #8796, does not have the metal coil spring inside it.
Does anyone know the maker and part number for a molded hose with the spring?
Or is the flex hose, Napa # FM15, considered a non collapsible hose?
Thanks, Scott.
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
[Updated on: Mon, 23 September 2019 11:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348442 is a reply to message #348440] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 12:31  |
Dave Stragand
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2017
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Can you just reuse the spring from your current hose? I haven’t run across one that was ever molded in, they were all just slipped inside.
-Dave
1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh
> On Sep 23, 2019, at 12:47 PM, Scott Nutter via Gmclist wrote:
>
> According to the parts interchange index, the lower radiator hose Napa #8796, does not have the metal coil spring inside it.
> Does anyone know the maker and part number for a molded hose with the spring?
> Thanks, Scott.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
> installed MSD Atomic EFI
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
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1978 Transmode (403)
Pittsburgh, PA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348444 is a reply to message #348442] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 12:49 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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There are several on Amazon. Search for radiator hose spring.
Some auto parts stores also have them
Emery
> On Sep 23, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Dave Stragand via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Can you just reuse the spring from your current hose? I haven’t run across one that was ever molded in, they were all just slipped inside.
>
> -Dave
> 1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh
>
>> On Sep 23, 2019, at 12:47 PM, Scott Nutter via Gmclist wrote:
>>
>> According to the parts interchange index, the lower radiator hose Napa #8796, does not have the metal coil spring inside it.
>> Does anyone know the maker and part number for a molded hose with the spring?
>> Thanks, Scott.
>> --
>> Scott Nutter
>> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
>> installed MSD Atomic EFI
>> Houston, Texas
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348448 is a reply to message #348440] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 16:41 |
Scott Nutter
Messages: 782
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
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Interesting tidbit..
I went to the local Napa today. They had a flex hose in the trash area. We cut it apart, and low and behold the flex hose was a giant metal spring. then the rubber was formed onto and around that. This is the flex hose with the screw pattern.
So what I think I've learned is that if you are using a hi flow water pump, then the flex hose would be the one to go with. Napa part # RM15 for a 455 (made by Gates).
I do remember molded hoses with the metal coil on the inside, but seems that people weren't crazy about that because the coil could rust and damage the water pump.
Scott.
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, Dave Lenzi super duty mid axle disc brakes, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348452 is a reply to message #348448] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 16:58 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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The convoluted radiator hoses should be your last choice, because they put
constant tension on the radiator inlets and outlets. If molded hoses with
loose STAINLESS STEEL springs inside are not available, then use the
convoluted hoses as a last resort. Those connections on the radiator are
only soldered in place on the brass radiators, heli-arced on the aluminum
radiators. Either way, they are fragile.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 2:42 PM Scott Nutter via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Interesting tidbit..
> I went to the local Napa today. They had a flex hose in the trash area. We
> cut it apart, and low and behold the flex hose was a giant metal spring.
> then the rubber was formed onto and around that. This is the flex hose
> with the screw pattern.
> So what I think I've learned is that if you are using a hi flow water
> pump, then the flex hose would be the one to go with. Napa part # RM15 for
> a 455
> (made by Gates).
> I do remember molded hoses with the metal coil on the inside, but seems
> that people weren't crazy about that because the coil could rust and damage
> the water pump.
>
> Scott.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final
> drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
> installed MSD Atomic EFI
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348455 is a reply to message #348448] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 17:55 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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If the coil rusted then everything else in the engine would rust or corrode. It would be immersed in antifreeze and if they changed it every two years the coil would not rust.
Emery Stora
> On Sep 23, 2019, at 3:41 PM, Scott Nutter via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Interesting tidbit..
> I went to the local Napa today. They had a flex hose in the trash area. We cut it apart, and low and behold the flex hose was a giant metal spring.
> then the rubber was formed onto and around that. This is the flex hose with the screw pattern.
> So what I think I've learned is that if you are using a hi flow water pump, then the flex hose would be the one to go with. Napa part # RM15 for a 455
> (made by Gates).
> I do remember molded hoses with the metal coil on the inside, but seems that people weren't crazy about that because the coil could rust and damage
> the water pump.
>
> Scott.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
> installed MSD Atomic EFI
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348456 is a reply to message #348452] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 18:49 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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James Hupy wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 17:58The convoluted radiator hoses should be your last choice, because they put constant tension on the radiator inlets and outlets. If molded hoses with loose STAINLESS STEEL springs inside are not available, then use the convoluted hoses as a last resort. Those connections on the radiator are only soldered in place on the brass radiators, heli-arced on the aluminum radiators. Either way, they are fragile.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
James my good man,
That is a nice plan, but during last year's refit I searched for a molded to fit hose or one that could be made to fit and came up with nothing.
If someone has a number and source for such a hose, please get it to the parts substitution book for the next update.
Matt - who will be filling a cooling system tomorrow
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348461 is a reply to message #348456] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 20:07 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
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The convoluted hoses also encourage a lot of turbulence and thus flow reduction. As Jim said, they should be a last resort.
What do our vendors recommend and offer as a lower hose?
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
> On Sep 23, 2019, at 7:49 PM, Matt Colie via Gmclist wrote:
>
> James Hupy wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 17:58
>> The convoluted radiator hoses should be your last choice, because they put constant tension on the radiator inlets and outlets. If molded hoses
>> with loose STAINLESS STEEL springs inside are not available, then use the convoluted hoses as a last resort. Those connections on the radiator are
>> only soldered in place on the brass radiators, heli-arced on the aluminum radiators. Either way, they are fragile.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Oregon
>
> James my good man,
>
> That is a nice plan, but during last year's refit I searched for a molded to fit hose or one that could be made to fit and came up with nothing.
>
> If someone has a number and source for such a hose, please get it to the parts substitution book for the next update.
>
> Matt - who will be filling a cooling system tomorrow
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348464 is a reply to message #348456] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 20:28 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
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Matt, JimK shows two different sets of molded hoses. But surely you knew
that! What are we missing?
And here is an inner support spring:
https://www.npdlink.com/product/spring-lower-radiator-hose-keeps-the-hose-from/143875
Rick “whose NAPA hoses still have the labels on them, last I looked” Denney
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 7:50 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
> James my good man,
>
> That is a nice plan, but during last year's refit I searched for a molded
> to fit hose or one that could be made to fit and came up with nothing.
>
> If someone has a number and source for such a hose, please get it to the
> parts substitution book for the next update.
>
> Matt - who will be filling a cooling system tomorrow
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348465 is a reply to message #348456] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 20:32 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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I got OEM hoses from Jeff Sirum.
Matt Colie wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 19:49James Hupy wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 17:58The convoluted radiator hoses should be your last choice, because they put constant tension on the radiator inlets and outlets. If molded hoses with loose STAINLESS STEEL springs inside are not available, then use the convoluted hoses as a last resort. Those connections on the radiator are only soldered in place on the brass radiators, heli-arced on the aluminum radiators. Either way, they are fragile.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
James my good man,
That is a nice plan, but during last year's refit I searched for a molded to fit hose or one that could be made to fit and came up with nothing.
If someone has a number and source for such a hose, please get it to the parts substitution book for the next update.
Matt - who will be filling a cooling system tomorrow
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348467 is a reply to message #348465] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 20:52 |
RicksGMC
Messages: 145
Registered: May 2012
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I just got molded hoses from Gateway GMC parts but I don’t think they have a spring in the lower, so is it going to collapse if I don’t add a spring?? We did install a high flow water pump on the new engine (Cardone pump wasn’t available).
Rick Drummond
1974 26’ (re)Painted Desert named B.O.B.
> On Sep 23, 2019, at 8:32 PM, Charles Boyd via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I got OEM hoses from Jeff Sirum.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Matt Colie wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 19:49
>> James Hupy wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 17:58
>>> The convoluted radiator hoses should be your last choice, because they put constant tension on the radiator inlets and outlets. If molded
>>> hoses with loose STAINLESS STEEL springs inside are not available, then use the convoluted hoses as a last resort. Those connections on the
>>> radiator are only soldered in place on the brass radiators, heli-arced on the aluminum radiators. Either way, they are fragile.
>>> Jim Hupy
>>> Salem, Oregon
>>
>> James my good man,
>>
>> That is a nice plan, but during last year's refit I searched for a molded to fit hose or one that could be made to fit and came up with nothing.
>>
>>
>> If someone has a number and source for such a hose, please get it to the parts substitution book for the next update.
>>
>> Matt - who will be filling a cooling system tomorrow
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
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Rick
Rick&Tammy Drummond
Prior Lake MN
'74 (re)Painted Desert
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| Re: Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348468 is a reply to message #348440] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 21:04 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
Karma: -6
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The spring just kept the hose from colapsing under decelleration because as the water slowed the hose would vacumm in. Also the hose itself didnt have very much structual support so the spring also kept it in "shape".
Todays hoses have braiding molded into the hose material itself.....much better and stronger to the point we can even use silicone hoses, mold them into any form we want and use them without internal support etc.
In the industry i work in we have such high thermal cycling and flow in the engine we now are degrading inside of the hoses ...its so bad Gates now makes a "grey" hose which is made of some totally different material to stop it.
Long story short....if the new modern hose doesnt have a spring it probably doesnt need it.
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
[Updated on: Mon, 23 September 2019 21:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348469 is a reply to message #348468] |
Mon, 23 September 2019 21:26 |
RicksGMC
Messages: 145
Registered: May 2012
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Thanks Rich that makes me feel better.
Rick
Rick&Tammy Drummond
Prior Lake MN
'74 (re)Painted Desert named B.O.B.
> On Sep 23, 2019, at 9:04 PM, tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist wrote:
>
> The spring just kept the hose from colapsing under decelleration because as the water slowed the hose would vacumm in. Also the hose itself didnt have
> very much structual support so the spring also kept it in "shape".
>
> Todays hoses have braiding molded into the hose material itself.....much better and stronger to the point we can even use silicone hoses, mold them
> into any form we want and use them without internal support etc.
>
> In the industry i work in we have such high thermal cycling and flow in the engine we now are degrading inside of the hoses ...its so bad Gates now
> makes a "grey" hose which is made of something totally different materials to stop it.
>
> Lomg story short....if the new modern hose doesnt have a spring it probably doesnt need it.
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
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Rick
Rick&Tammy Drummond
Prior Lake MN
'74 (re)Painted Desert
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348473 is a reply to message #348464] |
Tue, 24 September 2019 01:20 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I am not sure why you want these springs. It is my understanding that they were there to prevent collapsing the hose during cool down when a slight vacuum is present sucking coolant back out the overflow container.
When the vehicle is running The entire cooling system is pressurized to what ever the radiator cap is set to (7 to 16 PSI. When the vehicle is running marginal difference in pressure between the intake and output side of the pump and definitely not enough to over come the 7 to 16 PSI. The pump is a high volume low pressure pump.
So I see no need for the spring and I personally have never seen a collapsed radiator hose.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348481 is a reply to message #348480] |
Tue, 24 September 2019 08:31 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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We provide the spring to insert, go to our heating cooling section.
On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 6:24 AM Matt Colie via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Richard Denney wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 21:28
>> Matt, JimK shows two different sets of molded hoses. But surely you knew
>> that! What are we missing?
>>
>> And here is an inner support spring:
>>
>>
> https://www.npdlink.com/product/spring-lower-radiator-hose-keeps-the-hose-from/143875
>>
>> Rick "whose NAPA hoses still have the labels on them, last I looked"
> Denney
>
> Rick,
>
> If that is the case then the way it is listed in the interchange book
> needs to be changed. I buy enough from JimK that it would not bother me.
>
> Matt - Gets to refill his cooling system today and maybe put the coach on
> the ground.
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348503 is a reply to message #348440] |
Tue, 24 September 2019 19:35 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Gates told us the spring is not needed as it was a factory coolant fill machine fixture.
I agree the system pressure would keep it inflated. The weight of the coolant head above it should also keep it inflated during cool down. The tiny return spring on the return valve poppet is very weak. I ordered NAPA upper/lower spares to keep under the sofa in case of hose failure. If I had to do a road side swap I'd leave the spring out as an experiment . Not a fan of the convoluted universal hoses. Even worse fan of the cosmetic braided fake race Jegs stuff.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348528 is a reply to message #348440] |
Wed, 25 September 2019 18:48 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Ken B if the spring was to keep it from collapsing during cool down, then you would need one in the upper hose. Especially in the upper hose as the weight of the coolant head above the lower hose would be more than what is on the upper.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Lower radiator hose with spring [message #348532 is a reply to message #348529] |
Wed, 25 September 2019 23:57 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The lower hose tend to collapse as it is the low pressure side.
I refer it as a phonomana when the lower hose does collapse when engine is
hot.
I run the coil as a preventative devise.
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 4:56 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> The problem only arises with the high volume water pumps as I understand
> it. Caused from pressure differential is a guess on my part. I know me
> Son's jeep Cherokee with the high output inline 6 would overheat without
> the spring in the lower radiator hose. Used the same hose with a spring
> installed, and no problems, even in Arizona heat. Go figure.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:49 PM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Ken B if the spring was to keep it from collapsing during cool down, then
>> you would need one in the upper hose. Especially in the upper hose as the
>> weight of the coolant head above the lower hose would be more than what
> is
>> on the upper.
>> --
>> John Lebetski
>> Woodstock, IL
>> 77 Eleganza II
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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