Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Why not ION lug centered wheels? (Purchasing Wheels )
| Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #346992] |
Wed, 28 August 2019 19:36  |
JR Williams
Messages: 24
Registered: August 2019
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Hello all.
I've just recently purchased a 77' Birchhaven 23' and I couldn't be more happy. Like with any older vehicle, it needs some love here and there. I knew this going in and have padded my bank with some extra funds. One place that needs the love above some other wants is the Wheels and Tires.
I'm currently running on original Steel 16.5 with tire dates from 03' to 14'. Not ideal. After pouring over the forums, talking to the pros, everybody points to the hub centered wheels Alcoa or ION.
After searching the web I came across these ION wheels at a reasonable price but they have slightly different details from the Alcoa
https://www.jegs.com/i/The-Wheel-Group/306/167-6681FP/10002/-1
Would these work and if not why?
JR
JR Williams
St Petersburg FL
77 Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #346995 is a reply to message #346992] |
Wed, 28 August 2019 20:40  |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Hub bore on the ION is130.18mm convert to inches =5.125"
GMC hub bore is 4.567"
On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 6:37 PM jronguitar--- via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Hello all.
>
> I've just recently purchased a 77' Birchhaven 23' and I couldn't be more
> happy. Like with any older vehicle, it needs some love here and there. I
> knew
> this going in and have padded my bank with some extra funds. One place
> that needs the love above some other wants is the Wheels and Tires.
>
> I'm currently running on original Steel 16.5 with tire dates from 03' to
> 14'. Not ideal. After pouring over the forums, talking to the pros,
> everybody
> points to the hub centered wheels Alcoa or ION.
>
> After searching the web I came across these ION wheels at a reasonable
> price but they have slightly different details from the Alcoa
>
> https://www.jegs.com/i/The-Wheel-Group/306/167-6681FP/10002/-1
>
> Would these work and if not why?
>
> JR
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #346996 is a reply to message #346992] |
Wed, 28 August 2019 21:11 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I wouldn't run lug centered on a heavy vehicle. GM used hub centered.so wouldn't feel comfortable behind the wheel where I could cause injuries or worse IF something happened.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347005 is a reply to message #347002] |
Wed, 28 August 2019 23:43 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 8:14 PM Jim Kanomata wrote:
> We have the exact hub centered Ion wheels. Go to our sight ;
> www.gmcrvparts.com
> Also call Nick or myself
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 8:08 PM tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> You might be able to have centering rings made up perhaps?
>> --
>> Rich Mondor,
>>
>> Brockville, ON
>>
>> 77 Hughes 2600
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347006 is a reply to message #346992] |
Wed, 28 August 2019 23:52 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Why do we have or need hub centered wheels? It has nothing to do with weight carrying ability. GM decided to use dually wheels on the GMC and the dually wheels had hub centering. Once the wheels are tightened down the weight is supported by the clamping force and not the center of the hub.
The hub centering on dually wheels was used to center the inside wheel in position while the outside wheel was being mounted in a dually configuration.
In our case we are not clamping two wheels together and do not have the need for the inside wheel to be held in position while the outside wheel is mounted and the pair tightened down.
That said, I did not look at the particular spec on this wheel as compared to what we need. I did notice there was no max air pressure or weight rating on these wheels in the advertisement.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347009 is a reply to message #347006] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 07:06 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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I have been running stud centered Weld aluminum wheels for about 12 years with no issues. (Thank you Terry Taylor). I am also running stud centering 2" front wheel spacers so no need for grinding calipers for clearance. I also just took off a set of Barn kept Goodyear 159s dated 2005 that looked as good as the new replacement Taiwanese tires.
I like the Ion wheels. The ? I have is that there is 2 different closed end 9/16 x18 lug nuts offered. The Long is 1.75" and the Duplex is 1.88". Is there a difference in a long and a duplex that appears the same just longer??
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347013 is a reply to message #347009] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 07:40 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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In answer to my own question. The L lug nut uses a 3/4 lug wrench and the Duplex uses a 7/8 lug wrench.
C Boyd wrote on Thu, 29 August 2019 08:06I have been running stud centered Weld aluminum wheels for about 12 years with no issues. (Thank you Terry Taylor). I am also running stud centering 2" front wheel spacers so no need for grinding calipers for clearance. I also just took off a set of Barn kept Goodyear 159s dated 2005 that looked as good as the new replacement Taiwanese tires.
I like the Ion wheels. The ? I have is that there is 2 different closed end 9/16 x18 lug nuts offered. The Long is 1.75" and the Duplex is 1.88". Is there a difference in a long and a duplex that appears the same just longer??
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
[Updated on: Thu, 29 August 2019 07:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347016 is a reply to message #346992] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 08:15 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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JR,
Welcome to the group, family, cult, asylum.....
I am glad you found your way here, and I hope that you are also real glad too.
I see you are working the group as the forum. That be the case, as soon as you have time, please create a sigfile for us. To do this, go to <Control Panel/Account Settings> and then <Preferences>. There will be a signature box right there. Please fill in a name you go by, a bit about the coach and major mods (this can matter) and a geographic reference (It does say St. Petersburg in the header, but the e-mail readers don't see that).
When it comes to coaches, you should not have to tell anybody here that a Birchhaven is a 23, but the 77 might matter. There is a lot of Coachmen documentation available. If you don't have it, ask where to find it. I can't tell you, but I have seen it.
It is a shame that you were too late for Tallahassee, but Sunshine Statesmen and Dixielanders have rallies all the time. It is worth your while to get to one. But, be ready for Paterson (near NOLA) in the spring.
You are now a member of a community that is like few others. These are helping and supportive people that want to see that you get to enjoy both the coach and what it can do for you. They keep no secret of this and are always eager to assist where ever they can. This is one of the reasons to have a full sigfile. Someone that lives nearby will probably read this later today and may even make contact. Such is not uncommon. There is also maybe a "lunch bunch" nearby.
As the only community that I know that is at all this supportive is that of the watermen that are my world, I like to greet new owners here much as one might be greeted there. So,
May the Good Lord bless this coach and all those that set forth within her.
Welcome JR
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347020 is a reply to message #347006] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 09:31 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
Karma: -6
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Senior Member |
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Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 29 August 2019 00:52Why do we have or need hub centered wheels? It has nothing to do with weight carrying ability. GM decided to use dually wheels on the GMC and the dually wheels had hub centering. Once the wheels are tightened down the weight is supported by the clamping force and not the center of the hub.
The hub centering on dually wheels was used to center the inside wheel in position while the outside wheel was being mounted in a dually configuration.
In our case we are not clamping two wheels together and do not have the need for the inside wheel to be held in position while the outside wheel is mounted and the pair tightened down.
That said, I did not look at the particular spec on this wheel as compared to what we need. I did notice there was no max air pressure or weight rating on these wheels in the advertisement.
They say a hub centered wheel runs truer that stud centered because the hub center is more accurate placing the wheel in true alignment with centerline of the axle.....not sure how realistic that is but i have never had drivability issues with hub centered but on the other hand i have with stud centered.
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: [GMCnet] Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347024 is a reply to message #347020] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 09:50 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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As I remember it, there was a big kerfuffle about front wheel drive
vehicles and lug centered wheels not staying concentric with the axle
centerline. Even some recalls. You can bet your bippy that GM would never
have gone to the trouble of hub centering if there was not some compelling
reason to do so. Like D.O.T. regulations.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 7:32 AM tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 29 August 2019 00:52
>> Why do we have or need hub centered wheels? It has nothing to do with
> weight carrying ability. GM decided to use dually wheels on the GMC and
>> the dually wheels had hub centering. Once the wheels are tightened down
> the weight is supported by the clamping force and not the center of the
>> hub.
>>
>> The hub centering on dually wheels was used to center the inside wheel
> in position while the outside wheel was being mounted in a dually
>> configuration.
>> In our case we are not clamping two wheels together and do not have the
> need for the inside wheel to be held in position while the outside wheel
>> is mounted and the pair tightened down.
>>
>> That said, I did not look at the particular spec on this wheel as
> compared to what we need. I did notice there was no max air pressure or
> weight
>> rating on these wheels in the advertisement.
>
> They say a hub centered wheel runs truer that stud centered because the
> hub center is more accurate placing the wheel in true alignment with
> centerline of the axle.....not sure how realistic that is but i have never
> had drivability issues with hub centered but on the other hand i have with
> stud centered.
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347030 is a reply to message #346992] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 10:31 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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I have a set of lug centered Eagles (from Applied GMC) on the rear of my coach. They use the mag style lug nuts and run as true as any hub centered wheel. I run a pair of 16" X 8" Dodge truck wheels on the front which use conical lug nuts and run true on the hubs. GM did a great job of machining the hubs, front and rear, to make theigs concentric. My coach has been equipped this way for most of my 11 year and 44,000 mile ownership.
I also have a Ford F-600 truck that has 6 lug wheels. They are NOT hub centered but use conical lugs (big ones) to hold the wheels on, so the "heavy vehicle" argument does not seem to hold water here.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347032 is a reply to message #347030] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 11:14 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
I think your on our old site.
They are Hub centered and only we have them made for us that way.
Ill try to post the right link.
Don't people know we have 95% of all the parts and accessories. Plus we
spend tremendous amount of time explaining howto do things and
referring people to others that will assist them when they mention our
association to them.
By the way, these wheels are not marked up double as some of you think.
It comes standard with SS Valve stems, not a short rubber ones you have
problems with.
On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 8:32 AM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I have a set of lug centered Eagles (from Applied GMC) on the rear of my
> coach. They use the mag style lug nuts and run as true as any hub centered
> wheel. I run a pair of 16" X 8" Dodge truck wheels on the front which use
> conical lug nuts and run true on the hubs. GM did a great job of machining
> the hubs, front and rear, to make theigs concentric. My coach has been
> equipped this way for most of my 11 year and 44,000 mile ownership.
>
> I also have a Ford F-600 truck that has 6 lug wheels. They are NOT hub
> centered but use conical lugs (big ones) to hold the wheels on, so the
> "heavy
> vehicle" argument does not seem to hold water here.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347034 is a reply to message #347032] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 11:35 |
JR Williams
Messages: 24
Registered: August 2019
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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JimK
I noticed on your site you have Aluminum Alloy - Matte Black that are "Non Hub Centered" any issues with these? What has been your feedback with customers regarding?
JR Williams
St Petersburg FL
77 Birchaven
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| Re: Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347035 is a reply to message #347016] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 11:38 |
JR Williams
Messages: 24
Registered: August 2019
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Hello Matt C,
Thanks for the warm welcome. I've already found this group to be the warmest and that's pretty swell.
I updated my info and am in compliance. Looking forward to meeting one day.
JR
JR Williams
St Petersburg FL
77 Birchaven
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| Re: Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347041 is a reply to message #346992] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 12:19 |
JR Williams
Messages: 24
Registered: August 2019
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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OK, here's some detail I hope somebody can clear up. I'm beginning to see double searching for answers... here we go.
The wheel I'm looking at...
ION 167 series
Backspacing / 7.516"
Offset / 4.01575"
Compared to...
Alcoa Classic 8 (160231)
Backspacing / 8.13"
Offset / 5.15"
The differences...
Backspacing / 0.614
Offset / 1.15
What issues will the ION have?
JR
JR Williams
St Petersburg FL
77 Birchaven
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| Re: Why not ION lug centered wheels? [message #347070 is a reply to message #346992] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 20:56 |
tmsnyder
Messages: 151
Registered: January 2014
Karma: -9
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Senior Member |
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Hiya JR,
You might be looking at some older posts from a period of time where 16" tires were cheaper or when 16.5 " tires were scarce. That's no longer an issue.
Firestone Transforce tires are about $140 installed and available almost everywhere but especially at your local Firestone shop. There's no longer much if any cost savings to be had by moving to a 16" tire.
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
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