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| [GMCnet] Tire age advise [message #346983] |
Wed, 28 August 2019 17:40  |
fbhtxak
Messages: 191
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 0
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Mark,
I note that the Michelin XPS RIB is an "all steel" tire.
I agree with your observations on change interval for that "all steel" tire.
Until about seven years ago, I had Goodyear G159 tires ("all steel") on my
GMC. I changed them at 12 years and about 80K miles (and still not worn to
the "wear bars"). There were no signs of any deterioration. The coach was
always in an insulated, sealed garage when not in use (about 9 months total
each year).
I did not replace them with the successor G159 as the cost was going to be
about $360/tire "off the shelf". I instead bought BF Goodrich Commercial TAs
("fabric" sidewall) with the intention of using them like the G159s. Not to
be - at about 5 years and about 40K miles, two of them began to show
evidence of failing sidewalls ('fortunately discovered before actual
failure). In comparing notes with a couple of major GMC service vendors and
other owners on use of those and other "name brand" fabric-wall tires, the
"counsel" was to plan to change them, REGARDLES OF MANUFACTURER, at about
five years. So - I, am doing that. The fabric-sidewall tire does "ride" more
comfortably than the G159s but 'have to incur the hassle of changing them
out twice as often as "all steel" tires.
Re " Only thing I do is a walk around of the coach with a visual inspection
and a non-contact thermometer at every gas stop while on the road. Other
than those checks, I didn't worry at all about the tires." My practice is
the same. It has served me well.
Fred
Fred Hudspeth
1978 Royale (TZE 368V101335) - Tyler, TX
1982 Airstream Excella (motorhome) - Cooper Landing, Alaska
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 10:02:15 -0600
From: Mark Sawyer
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tire age advise
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
This topic is similar to motor oil threads... Everyone has an opinion, and
everyone's opinion is gospel. It's almost like getting into a politics or
religion discussion... I'm going to add my opinion here, but bottom line is
do some research, and use some common sense and make your own decision.
Scenario 1: Your tire is 7 years old. It is a quality tire, but you don't
know the history. REPLACE Scenario 2: Your tire is less than 7 years old.
It either looks like hell (weather/age cracked, worn funny) OR is is a low
quality tire. REPLACE Scenario 3: Your tire is greater than 7 years old.
It looks fine. There is no adverse wear or weather checking. You know the
tires history. It has not been run underinflated or abused in any way. It
is a quality tire. You are probably ok.
And I'll do one better and put my money where my mouth is. I run Michelin
XPS Ribs on my coach. The coach and the tires have always been stored
indoors. Tires have not been abused in any way. There is no age checking
at all. Wear pattern is fine. They are greater than 10 years old. As a
matter of fact, in the last 4 years, I have not even had to add air to the
tires. At all. (I don't travel in winter... Only drives to keep the coach
limber, so the reduced pressure due to the cold is not an issue, as the
coach is also lightly loaded)
I just did a trip from Texas to Florida and back with my family of 5 with
the coach fully loaded. It was 104 out when I left, and similar temps most
of the drive. Only thing I do is a walk around of the coach with a visual
inspection and a non-contact thermometer at every gas stop while on the
road. Other than those checks, I didn't worry at all about the tires.
Here is an interesting read from a Fire Safety organization on tire age and
Fire Apparatus that was publised a few years ago. Reading through the
study, their findings make sense to me... And in my opinion, if what is
described below is good enough for an emergency vehicle, it's good enough
for my coach...
https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-statistics-and-rep
orts/Emergency-responders/RFAutomativeFireApparatusTireReplacement.ashx?la=e
n
Quote:
> From the present research, it is found that no literature convincingly
> supports a seven year tire replacement criteria. Further, it is
> realized that the wear and tear of the tire are due more importance
> while considering a tire replacement. As mentioned in the rubber
> manufacturer's association statement, since service and storage
> conditions vary widely, accurately predicting the actual serviceable
> life of any specific tire based on simple calendar age is not
> possible. A tire should be removed from service for multiple reasons:
tread wear to minimum tread depth, tire damage like cuts, cracks, bulges
etc., improper inflation pressure and storage conditions. A specific
inspection and maintenance of fire apparatus tire is recommended.
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tire age advise [message #347059 is a reply to message #346983] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 16:40  |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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fbhtxak wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 17:40Mark,
I note that the Michelin XPS RIB is an "all steel" tire.
I am a big fan of the XPSs, but most in this group seem to recommend not going with an all steel tire for handling/ride.... I'm not sure what the disconnect between my experience and others on the forum, but it may be due to the inflation pressure used... If you inflate a tire to a pressure higher than required to carry the axle's load, handling and feel can suffer... I would imagine this is compounded on tires with an all steel case. However most tire manufacturers will publish "Load/Pressure" charts for their heavy duty tires...
FWIW, here is the one Michelin publishes for their light truck tires:
https://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck_en_us/assets/pdf/load-and-inflation.pdf
The XPSs also have great reviews on tirerack and other sites... And I feel they ride and handle great. And I can't understand how they wear so well, but still offer as much grip as they do. I plan on replacing mine this fall, (probably on one of the black friday sales) with another set of XPSs...
However, Michelin has a new rag wall tire that looks interesting... It's new, so there are not too many reviews, but if the reviews stay good over time, I may consider it for my next set. Running a 225/75/16C would get you triple steel tread plies, and a "polyamide" ply in this tire... I believe products like Aramid and Kevlar are also polyamides....
Quote:The Agilis CrossClimate is Michelin's Highway All-Season light truck tire developed for the drivers of delivery vans, work trucks and multi-purpose vehicles who need a durable tire that can endure high-stress use, including heavy loads and rough conditions. Available in heavy-duty, LT-metric and Euro-metric Commercial Vehicle (designated by the suffix C, not to be confused with LT-metric Load Range C) sizes, Agilis CrossClimate tires are designed to be used under load and to provide confident dry and wet traction, in addition to light snow performance capable of earning the three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol.
Agilis CrossClimate tires mold an all-season compound into a symmetric pattern for LT-metric sizes or a directional pattern for Euro-metric Commercial Vehicle sizes. Both tread patterns utilize Michelin's StabiliBlok Technology, which provides wider and longer tread blocks to manage heat and withstand the high torque loads delivered by commercial vehicles. SipeLock technology delivers hundreds of biting edges for wet and snow traction while helping to maintain tread block stability for handling and improved wear, and CurbGard Sidewall Protectors help resist damage from curbs in tight, urban environments. Deep lateral grooves and open shoulder slots evacuate water from the footprint for hydroplaning resistance, while independent tread blocks and sipes combine for confident light snow traction.
The internal construction of the Agilis CrossClimate is focused on durability under load. A robust, two-ply polyester casing supports two heavy-duty steel belts (3 steel belts in 235/65R16C and 225/75R16C sizes). A polyamide reinforcement ply helps control the contact patch and further enhances durability.
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tire age advise [message #347061 is a reply to message #346983] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 17:21 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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BTW, I'm not some Michelin freak... Though I feel they make an excellent truck tire, I was not a fan of their high performance all seasons (Pilot Sport AS2s)when I ran them on my wife's G8. Wore out very fast. But I'm giving them a try again currently with the AS3s as it is supposed to be a new compound) I also run Michelin's (LTXs Load Range E) on my Excursion. Great tire, but I would not run these if I always had them heavily loaded like in the GMC, as I find the sidewalls to be too soft. They ride and grip great, though.
While I'm not a Michelin freak, I am a car freak... I've got way too many according to my wife, but consequently, I own tires from a lot of brands. Going through them, I'm currently running tires by: Bridgestone, BFG, Pirelli, Hankook, Toyo, Continental, Yokohama and Falcon....
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tire age advise [message #347075 is a reply to message #346983] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 23:11 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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My brother had problems with Goodrich TA's on his Ford mini Motorhome it is a2006 Thor. He had to replace 4 tires in the last 2 years the date code was 2015 all 225 16 E rated. He is running at 80 psi and his coach is right at the tire load rating. I believe other folks had problems with Goodrich also . You never know even Michelin has had problems in the past.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
[Updated on: Thu, 29 August 2019 23:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tire age advise [message #347076 is a reply to message #347075] |
Thu, 29 August 2019 23:32 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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BF Goodrich is a Michelin brand - but I'm not sure how many manufacturing
plants they share between their various brands. It wouldn't surprise me to
hear that both brands (and others) are manufactured in the same facility...
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 9:12 PM roy keen via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> My brother had problems with Goodrich TA's on his Ford mini Motorhome it
> is a2006 Thor. He had to replace 4 tires in the last 2 years the date code
> was 2016 all 225 16 E rated. He is running at 80 psi and his coach is
> right at the tire load rating. I believe other folks had problems with
> Goodrich also . You never know even Michelin has had problems in the past.
> --
> Roy Keen
> Minden,NV
> 76 X Glenbrook
>
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tire age advise [message #347095 is a reply to message #346983] |
Fri, 30 August 2019 09:32 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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The shards and carcass parts you see strewn on our highways are all steel truck tire remnants. Any micro cracking in the sideways allows moisture and road chemicals to wick into the steel wires. The wire corrodes and this corrosion goes undetected until the sidewall fails. I'll stick with the poly.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tire age advise [message #347097 is a reply to message #347095] |
Fri, 30 August 2019 10:48 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
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Senior Member |
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JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 30 August 2019 09:32The shards and carcass parts you see strewn on our highways are all steel truck tire remnants. Any micro cracking in the sideways allows moisture and road chemicals to wick into the steel wires. The wire corrodes and this corrosion goes undetected until the sidewall fails. I'll stick with the poly.
A poly sidewall tire still has steel belts on the tread. If a tire is cracked enough to let moisture into the casing so the wire corrodes, it does not matter if it is steel in the sidewall or steel in the tread, you'll still end up with a failure.
Also, most of the tire remnants you see on the highway are recap failures, not failures due to corrosion of the belts.
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tire age advise [message #347099 is a reply to message #346983] |
Fri, 30 August 2019 11:03 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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A belt failure usually gives you an audible clue as well as tactile clue before fail. A belt fail usually will contain air and carcass integrity as belts are outboard of the carcass. A truck tire Bandag recap can likewise jettison the recap rubber and still hold air. This is the typical black alligator you see usually split but remaining the length of the circumference. These used to he very common. What I'm seeing daily on the highways now is steel shards from total sidewall fail and lots of separate shrapnel for a 1/4 mile or so. This is steel wire fail of the carcass. BOOM!
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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