Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Riddle me this one.....inverter????
| Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346113] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 17:37  |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
Karma: -6
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So the wife and I decide to venture out for a 3 day tour at a reasonably close Provincial Park.....kinda a shake down with the dogs, RV etc.
So today, day 2 (one night) i notice the roof fan slowing down....so i check the battery monitor on the panel and it doesnt move when i test the batteries....oh ow.....i know that they were in the green before we left.
Now the question.....the inverter, is it not supposed to charge the batteries as well?? We were plugged into a 30A service...
Piculierly the fridge wasnt working quite right (worked fine on our inicial trip home) and when we ran the roof A/C it kicked the main breaker on the house side.....
So is the inverter not working right or am i barking up the wrong tree with this? (A/C is not a big deal at this point really)
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: [GMCnet] Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346116 is a reply to message #346114] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 18:43  |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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The "buzz box" is a convertor, which creates 12VDC from an 120VAC source (that is - charges your batteries when on shore power or running a generator).
An "inverter" converts 12VDC to 120VAC and lets you run AC devices when running on batteries (aka dry camping or boon docking). Most inverters are pretty lossy - not very efficient. I rarely use an inverter - although I do carry two (one small and one slightly larger) and only use them when I really need AC when dry camping. Virtually everything in my GMC runs on 12VDC.
If I have shore power available - I'll run the fridge/heater/water heater on AC. When dry camping - those items all run on propane.
I have two TRUE deep cycle 12V batteries that I can switch between (one size 24 and one 27). We were just dry camping for 5 days on a single battery - I never needed to switch to the second one.
If you were plugged into 30A shore power - you should have been charging the batteries (using the buzz box/convertor). You shouldn't have needed to use the inverter (since you had AC from the shore power).
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Aug 6, 2019, at 4:01 PM, tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Or maybe i should say buzz box? The inverter changes the current from 120v AC to 12v DC.....sorry.
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346117 is a reply to message #346113] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 18:52 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
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Inverters take flat DC and invert wave polarity 60 times per second.
Do you own a decent volt Ohm meter? You should so your issue can be diagnosed in short order.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346119 is a reply to message #346117] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 19:19 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
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JohnL455 wrote on Tue, 06 August 2019 19:52Inverters take flat DC and invert wave polarity 60 times per second.
Do you own a decent volt Ohm meter? You should so your issue can be diagnosed in short order.
I do Sir and actually know how to use it....just wanted to confirm my suspissions but will fallow up with the meter.
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346120 is a reply to message #346118] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 19:24 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
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JohnL455 wrote on Tue, 06 August 2019 19:54Sounds like your converter is not outputing. Check AC supply and look for AC or DC fuses open. If you have a meter.
Can a converter put out some power but not its full potential?
Sorry im use to working with dual power inverters that convert 900vdc to AC or A/c to DC and DC to DC converters that do 900vdc to 12/24bdc....when something goes wrong in my world it usually involves big sparks, bangs and smoke.b
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: [GMCnet] Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346121 is a reply to message #346116] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 19:27 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
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Rob wrote on Tue, 06 August 2019 19:43The "buzz box" is a convertor, which creates 12VDC from an 120VAC source (that is - charges your batteries when on shore power or running a generator).
An "inverter" converts 12VDC to 120VAC and lets you run AC devices when running on batteries (aka dry camping or boon docking). Most inverters are pretty lossy - not very efficient. I rarely use an inverter - although I do carry two (one small and one slightly larger) and only use them when I really need AC when dry camping. Virtually everything in my GMC runs on 12VDC.
If I have shore power available - I'll run the fridge/heater/water heater on AC. When dry camping - those items all run on propane.
I have two TRUE deep cycle 12V batteries that I can switch between (one size 24 and one 27). We were just dry camping for 5 days on a single battery - I never needed to switch to the second one.
If you were plugged into 30A shore power - you should have been charging the batteries (using the buzz box/convertor). You shouldn't have needed to use the inverter (since you had AC from the shore power).
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Aug 6, 2019, at 4:01 PM, tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Or maybe i should say buzz box? The inverter changes the current from 120v AC to 12v DC.....sorry.
> --
> Rich Mondor,
>
> Brockville, ON
>
> 77 Hughes 2600
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Thanks Rob....thats what i figured.
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346123 is a reply to message #346122] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 20:04 |
6cuda6
Messages: 975
Registered: June 2019
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So lets assume it is the converter that is faulty....when i look at the power distribution area in my Hughes coach....i have a box on the left with big house type circuit breakers which i assume is the converter. Beside it i have another boxish type thing with 12v glass automotive type fuses which is a power distribution box perhaps????.
The converters i see on line are just that....a box with 2 wire connectors in ( 4 if it 50A +) and 2 wire connectors out...what a i not seeing here?
Boy i wish i had schematics for this thing...it is just so different than the GM schematics i have.
Rich Mondor,
Brockville, ON
77 Hughes 2600
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| Re: [GMCnet] Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346127 is a reply to message #346122] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 20:47 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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In my case (lots of dry camping) - 85% isn’t efficient enough, regardless of the comparisons...
If I’m using DC power to create AC power to run things I can run on DC power - all I’m doing is losing 15%...
I really doubt either of my “cheap” inverters are anywhere near 85% efficient... They’re just for emergencies. Including last week’s Hornby Island trip - I lent my small inverter to a friend to charge their electric toothbrush (I made them charge it from their own car!)...
My Onan is not happy this season - so power was a limited commodity on that little island. If I wanted to convert gasoline to DC power - it required a 455 CID converter...
Having said that - I’m pretty sure my power would have lasted longer than my water and waste tanks.
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Aug 6, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Bruce Hislop via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I keep reading statements that "Inverters are inefficient"... I'm not sure where that is coming from. Most inverters run 85% plus in efficiency which
> is pretty high. We would all be VERY HAPPY if we could get an engine with 85% efficiency instead of about 30%.
>
> I believe it comes from the low capacity capabilities of lead acid batteries. 100ampHr of battery capacity is really not that much compared to a
> gallon of gas or propane. A gallon of gasoline has the energy of about 1000 pounds of lead acid batteries.
> --
> Bruce Hislop
> ON Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346128 is a reply to message #346127] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 21:05 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Rob wrote on Tue, 06 August 2019 18:47In my case (lots of dry camping) - 85% isn't efficient enough, regardless of the comparisons...
If I'm using DC power to create AC power to run things I can run on DC power - all I'm doing is losing 15%...
I really doubt either of my "cheap" inverters are anywhere near 85% efficient... They're just for emergencies. Including last week's Hornby Island trip - I lent my small inverter to a friend to charge their electric toothbrush (I made them charge it from their own car!)...
My Onan is not happy this season - so power was a limited commodity on that little island. If I wanted to convert gasoline to DC power - it required a 455 CID converter...
Having said that - I'm pretty sure my power would have lasted longer than my water and waste tanks.
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
Rob, it sounds like you need to add a solar system. Even a small one like mine keeps my batteries charged during dry camping trips
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6227-solar-battery-charging.html
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
[Updated on: Tue, 06 August 2019 21:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346129 is a reply to message #346128] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 21:21 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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I've considered solar - but I'm quite often in the trees and usually north
of the 49th parallel. With my two batteries - I can go over a week and we
rarely sit for that long. But a small solar system might be handy.
I'm pretty sure I've found the issue with my Onan - so once I've got it
running properly again, I can easily outlast my tanks!
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:06 PM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Rob, it sounds like you need to add a solar system. Even a small one like
> mine keeps my batteries charged during dry camping trips
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6227-solar-battery-charging.html
>
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: [GMCnet] Riddle me this one.....inverter???? [message #346131 is a reply to message #346129] |
Tue, 06 August 2019 21:58 |
Vern Crawford
Messages: 81
Registered: August 2016
Karma: -1
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Member |
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Don’t underestimate the potential of solar on a GMC Motorhome:
We have not plugged into shore power for some 30,000 miles, and almost two
full years since completing the solar system on our ‘77 Palm Beach. We
power all 12 vdc and 120 vac systems (including fans, lights, 27” iMac
desktop, laptop, variety of other electronic gadgets, electric appliances
such as our Norcold compressor fridge, microwave, coffee pot, toaster,
etc.) with our self-installed 960 watt of solar collection. All of that
energy is stored in a 500 amp hour LiFePo4 lithium battery bank weighing
just 155 pounds.
Twice a year we boon-dock at almost month long events where generators are
simply not allowed, one in Texas and one in Oregon. Lots of cloudy days
in there, and trees too!
At the GMCMI conference in Tallahassee this past Spring we passed on our
old Onan 6000 to a fellow GMCer, lightening our GVW by several pounds.
Nope, we don’t use the air-conditioner with this system, that’s why we have
wheels on our coach to seek out more moderate climates.
Hugs,
Vern, Lenore, and Knibbles D. Kat
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:22 PM GMC Motorhome via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I've considered solar - but I'm quite often in the trees and usually north
> of the 49th parallel. With my two batteries - I can go over a week and we
> rarely sit for that long. But a small solar system might be handy.
>
> I'm pretty sure I've found the issue with my Onan - so once I've got it
> running properly again, I can easily outlast my tanks!
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:06 PM Carl Stouffer via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Rob, it sounds like you need to add a solar system. Even a small one
> like
>> mine keeps my batteries charged during dry camping trips
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6227-solar-battery-charging.html
>>
>> --
>> Carl Stouffer
>> '75 ex Palm Beach
>> Tucson, AZ.
>> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
>> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
>> Eagles,
>> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
--
Vern Crawford (and Lenore Langsdorf)
155 JJ Lane
Center Point, TX 78010
(618) 203-8296 Vern's cell
(830) 928-5550 Lenore's cell
VernCrawford@GMail.Com
LenoreLangsdorf@GMail.Com
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