Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Need good 403 Block with original bore
| Need good 403 Block with original bore [message #344790] |
Tue, 02 July 2019 18:23  |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Good Afternoon
My 403 recently failed and my rebuilder is looking for a stock 403 block, preferably in the Midwest area. (I live in Milwaukee and my rebuilder lives in Marion Iowa near Cedar Rapids.
I would greatly appreciate anyone's help.
Thanks everyone.
Ray
Ray.Erspamer@yahoo.com
414-484-9431
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Need good 403 Block with original bore [message #344798 is a reply to message #344792] |
Tue, 02 July 2019 19:52  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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You never know what your going to get.
Why can't they do that block.
The engine rebuilders association has a standard for doing a block. If one
cylinder is really bad, they will bore it and sleeve it.
As long as the shop knows what they are doing, it will last a long time.
On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 5:24 PM Sammy Williams via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Try checking with recyclers under "1977, 1978 Oldsmobile 403 engine" If you
> say GMC, people willl not have a clue of what you are wanting.
>
> Sammy
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 6:42 PM Ray Erspamer via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Good Afternoon
>>
>> My 403 recently failed and my rebuilder is looking for a stock 403 block,
>> preferably in the Midwest area. (I live in Milwaukee and my rebuilder
> lives
>> in Marion Iowa near Cedar Rapids.
>>
>> I would greatly appreciate anyone's help.
>>
>> Thanks everyone.
>>
>> Ray
>> mailto:Ray.Erspamer@yahoo.com
>> 414-484-9431
>> --
>> Ray Erspamer
>> 78 GMC Royale
>> 414-484-9431
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Need good 403 Block with original bore [message #344865 is a reply to message #344854] |
Thu, 04 July 2019 07:14 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I seriously doubt that block is available in 403 configuration.
But there is an interesting note in their list of specifications: "STANDARD
OLDS DISTRIBUTORS. NOTE: BE SURE TO CHECK DISTRIBUTOR TO OIL PUMP SHAFT
CLEARANCE WITH DISTRIBUTOR, INTAKE MANIFOLD AND OIL PUMP INSTALLED ON
BLOCK. " That sounds like a precaution against Bob Dunahugh and Ken
Shaffer's recent experience.
Which reminds me of the conversation after I mentioned that event to John
Beaver yesterday: I eventually mentioned Richard Waters' loss of the BRASS
distributor gear a couple of years ago. John was not surprised and advised
me that it's inevitable when a brass gear is used with an OEM-style cam.
On the other hand, a brass gear MUST be used with a billet cam! Which is
something to remember when considering a cam replacement.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, Troy-Bilt APU, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 11:02 PM Todd Snyder via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Here you go, but it might not fit, only $5k for the new block:
>
>
> https://rocketracingperformance.com/rrp-olds-block
>
>
>
> --
> Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
> 1976 Eleganza II
>
> _______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| What I hate about production rebuilders [message #344868 is a reply to message #344865] |
Thu, 04 July 2019 09:13 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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This is what I hate about production rebuilders.
Yes,this is a part of this thread.
As the aftermarket product engineer at McCord Gasket, I get to deal with a lot of these shops. Most of them were names that you may have heard.
When a conscientious rebuilder gets an engine in, the first thing that will happen is that it gets torn down and evaluated. If a bore or a journal shows damage, they will put it in line for a clean up machining and then re-evaulate before they order parts. That is what good shops do.
Early on, I found out the production rebuilders don't bother. The break the engine down, bore the block to 30 over, grind the crank to 30 under. The head gets about the same treatment. When I asked the foreman of one big name shop why they did this, he said it was so that they could be sure that they would not get bitten by the warranty. Later, I found out that this was a lie. They do it that way because then they only have to order and stock one set of parts. The fact that this engine can not be salvaged after this rebuild does not seem to bother them at all.
My engine is now a 461 (455 + 0.03) and the crank I took out was ground to minimum. Fortunately the bore where the piston failed was not damaged past usefullness. I was able to come up with another crank but I took another two months to get the mains for mine.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] What I hate about production rebuilders [message #344880 is a reply to message #344868] |
Thu, 04 July 2019 11:25 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Several "production" machine shops do that, regardless of bore condition.
No alloy rich blocks, like Chevrolet, are unlikely to be still round and
free of taper after 50,000 miles.
Olds, a high nickel content engine block often are still round and
true after over 100,000 miles. All they need would be a new set of standard
sized pistons, and crosshatch honeing and they are good to go. Reason to
replace the pistons is usually worn ring grooves that no longer seal either
oil or combustion pressures, not because of skirt wear or piston pin bore
wear.
Choose your rebuilder well.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
On Thu, Jul 4, 2019, 9:11 AM Matt Colie via Gmclist
wrote:
> This is what I hate about production rebuilders.
> Yes,this is a part of this thread.
> As the aftermarket product engineer at McCord Gasket, I get to deal with a
> lot of these shops. Most of them were names that you may have heard.
>
> When a conscientious rebuilder gets an engine in, the first thing that
> will happen is that it gets torn down and evaluated. If a bore or a journal
> shows damage, they will put it in line for a clean up machining and then
> re-evaulate before they order parts. That is what good shops do.
>
> Early on, I found out the production rebuilders don't bother. The break
> the engine down, bore the block to 30 over, grind the crank to 30 under.
> The
> head gets about the same treatment. When I asked the foreman of one big
> name shop why they did this, he said it was so that they could be sure that
> they would not get bitten by the warranty. Later, I found out that this
> was a lie. They do it that way because then they only have to order and
> stock one set of parts. The fact that this engine can not be salvaged
> after this rebuild does not seem to bother them at all.
>
> My engine is now a 461 (455 + 0.03) and the crank I took out was ground to
> minimum. Fortunately the bore where the piston failed was not damaged past
> usefullness. I was able to come up with another crank but I took another
> two months to get the mains for mine.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] What I hate about production rebuilders [message #344886 is a reply to message #344868] |
Thu, 04 July 2019 12:50 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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If you want it done differently one must look around till you find one that
will.
It will cost more as it slowed down the production.
On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 7:22 AM Matt Colie via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> This is what I hate about production rebuilders.
> Yes,this is a part of this thread.
> As the aftermarket product engineer at McCord Gasket, I get to deal with a
> lot of these shops. Most of them were names that you may have heard.
>
> When a conscientious rebuilder gets an engine in, the first thing that
> will happen is that it gets torn down and evaluated. If a bore or a journal
> shows damage, they will put it in line for a clean up machining and then
> re-evaulate before they order parts. That is what good shops do.
>
> Early on, I found out the production rebuilders don't bother. The break
> the engine down, bore the block to 30 over, grind the crank to 30 under.
> The
> head gets about the same treatment. When I asked the foreman of one big
> name shop why they did this, he said it was so that they could be sure that
> they would not get bitten by the warranty. Later, I found out that this
> was a lie. They do it that way because then they only have to order and
> stock one set of parts. The fact that this engine can not be salvaged
> after this rebuild does not seem to bother them at all.
>
> My engine is now a 461 (455 + 0.03) and the crank I took out was ground to
> minimum. Fortunately the bore where the piston failed was not damaged past
> usefullness. I was able to come up with another crank but I took another
> two months to get the mains for mine.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] What I hate about production rebuilders [message #344897 is a reply to message #344886] |
Thu, 04 July 2019 17:38 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Doing less work will cost more?
On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 2:51 PM Jim Kanomata via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> If you want it done differently one must look around till you find one that
> will.
> It will cost more as it slowed down the production.
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 7:22 AM Matt Colie via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> This is what I hate about production rebuilders.
>> Yes,this is a part of this thread.
>> As the aftermarket product engineer at McCord Gasket, I get to deal with
> a
>> lot of these shops. Most of them were names that you may have heard.
>>
>> When a conscientious rebuilder gets an engine in, the first thing that
>> will happen is that it gets torn down and evaluated. If a bore or a
> journal
>> shows damage, they will put it in line for a clean up machining and then
>> re-evaulate before they order parts. That is what good shops do.
>>
>> Early on, I found out the production rebuilders don't bother. The break
>> the engine down, bore the block to 30 over, grind the crank to 30 under.
>> The
>> head gets about the same treatment. When I asked the foreman of one big
>> name shop why they did this, he said it was so that they could be sure
> that
>> they would not get bitten by the warranty. Later, I found out that this
>> was a lie. They do it that way because then they only have to order and
>> stock one set of parts. The fact that this engine can not be salvaged
>> after this rebuild does not seem to bother them at all.
>>
>> My engine is now a 461 (455 + 0.03) and the crank I took out was ground
> to
>> minimum. Fortunately the bore where the piston failed was not damaged
> past
>> usefullness. I was able to come up with another crank but I took another
>> two months to get the mains for mine.
>>
>> Matt
>> --
>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
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| Re: Need good 403 Block with original bore [message #344980 is a reply to message #344831] |
Sat, 06 July 2019 14:41 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Yes, I just replaced it 2017, it had 6500 miles on it and burned a hole in #8 piston. Still trying to figure out what caused it.
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Need good 403 Block with original bore [message #344986 is a reply to message #344980] |
Sat, 06 July 2019 15:46 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Excessive heat that was not carried away by the cooling system at a fast
enough rate of exchange.
403 engines have cylinders in pairs, like siamese twins. They are
joined side by side with no water jackets between them. In hard water
areas, where tap water is used instead of distilled water, minerals in the
coolant can turn to hard scale around the hottest parts of the engines.
Hard mineral scale is an excellent insulator, and is very difficult to
remove from internal surfaces when using modern hot tank chemistry. The
days of using caustic (toxic) lye solutions are long gone. I quit using my
hot tank over 10 years ago because the chemistry is no longer available,
and dish washing machine detergents just don't get the job done.
Media blasting will remove it, but if so much as a teaspoon of the
stuff gets left behind, bad ju-ju.
Steel shot blasting, same deal.
S &J uses a super hot oven, heats the castings very hot for 24 hours, and
turns the stuff to ashes. Then, follows up with water based cleaning
solutions.
If your 403 block was not de-scaled when it was overhauled, that MIGHT
be one of the causes of overheat, along with ignition timing, crappy
gasoline, lean air fuel mixtures, vacuum leaks, higher combustion
temperatures from overbored cylinders, tightly fitted pistons, and the beat
goes on.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Jul 6, 2019, 1:12 PM Ray Erspamer via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Yes, I just replaced it 2017, it had 6500 miles on it and burned a hole in
> #8 piston. Still trying to figure out what caused it.
> --
> Ray Erspamer
> 78 GMC Royale
> 414-484-9431
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: Need good 403 Block with original bore [message #344987 is a reply to message #344790] |
Sat, 06 July 2019 16:30 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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When we did flat motors we had two tanks with HydroSeal Gunk<tm> and one with a caustic solution for non-ferrous metals. Heated to about 195f and the basket in them (3'x4')raised and lowered and agitated on air pressure. They got aluminum cases and steel rods and shafts squeaky clean fairly quickly. They were the stuff of EPA nightmares... but we didn't know any better and they worked well. Some of the B and RB engines which came out of Chrysler's Mound Road Engine Plant in the late 60s and early 70s weren't completely cleaned of casting sand in the water passages. If you had one that had a heat problem, you had to pull out the freeze plugs and clean them out and replug them.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] What I hate about production rebuilders [message #345050 is a reply to message #344897] |
Tue, 09 July 2019 13:10 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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sounds like a lot more work to me
1. evaluation by an expert
2. 2 different machining processes
3. 2 different sets of parts
4. Some rework when the expert is wrong and the block needs to be machined twice
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Kingsley Coach via Gmclist
Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 5:38 PM
To: Stu Rasmussen (97381.com) via Gmclist
Cc: Kingsley Coach
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What I hate about production rebuilders
Doing less work will cost more?
On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 2:51 PM Jim Kanomata via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> If you want it done differently one must look around till you find one that
> will.
> It will cost more as it slowed down the production.
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 7:22 AM Matt Colie via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> This is what I hate about production rebuilders.
>> Yes,this is a part of this thread.
>> As the aftermarket product engineer at McCord Gasket, I get to deal with
> a
>> lot of these shops. Most of them were names that you may have heard.
>>
>> When a conscientious rebuilder gets an engine in, the first thing that
>> will happen is that it gets torn down and evaluated. If a bore or a
> journal
>> shows damage, they will put it in line for a clean up machining and then
>> re-evaulate before they order parts. That is what good shops do.
>>
>> Early on, I found out the production rebuilders don't bother. The break
>> the engine down, bore the block to 30 over, grind the crank to 30 under.
>> The
>> head gets about the same treatment. When I asked the foreman of one big
>> name shop why they did this, he said it was so that they could be sure
> that
>> they would not get bitten by the warranty. Later, I found out that this
>> was a lie. They do it that way because then they only have to order and
>> stock one set of parts. The fact that this engine can not be salvaged
>> after this rebuild does not seem to bother them at all.
>>
>> My engine is now a 461 (455 + 0.03) and the crank I took out was ground
> to
>> minimum. Fortunately the bore where the piston failed was not damaged
> past
>> usefullness. I was able to come up with another crank but I took another
>> two months to get the mains for mine.
>>
>> Matt
>> --
>> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
>> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
>> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
>> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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