Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » VIN vs model year (variance in VIN year code and titled year)
| VIN vs model year [message #344747] |
Mon, 01 July 2019 20:19  |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
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Recently bought a 26 footer that the VIN would indicate it is a 73 tho it is titled as a 74. Looking at the production numbers, it says there were a total of 2059 73 units. In the info page later it also said "early 73 is prior to sequence number 2400". Mine is just over 2500 so I suppose it is possible it was produced under the 73 run year but sold and titled as a 74. Or it is mis-titled, it happens; especially since I was told it was an Elegance but pretty sure it's a Canyon Lands.
Did the sequence number (sold) start 100021 or something else? Did they skip numbers during production?
First time posting, really enjoying following this list. Some day I'll have to regale yall with my purchase in AZ and return to WI last month.
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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| Re: VIN vs model year [message #344762 is a reply to message #344747] |
Tue, 02 July 2019 07:03  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Cool. Hows to tell us who you are and where you are and what GMC you have. Do a sig line.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: VIN vs model year [message #344768 is a reply to message #344762] |
Tue, 02 July 2019 10:45 |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
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I see my sig line but anyhoo: real name Shane and I live in a really small village just west of Baraboo, WI. The rig is (ostensibly) a 74 Canyon Lands. As I said in the lead post, it was sold as an Eleganze which it clearly is not. The upholstery and counter top colors etc point to the Canyon Lands scheme, not that it really matters 45 years on...
I'll get into the story of the MH in another post soon.
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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| Re: VIN vs model year [message #344770 is a reply to message #344747] |
Tue, 02 July 2019 11:11 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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The year is indicated by the third number after the TZE. For instance, my '75 starts out with TZE 165...
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: VIN vs model year [message #344777 is a reply to message #344768] |
Tue, 02 July 2019 13:05 |
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Tom Lins
Messages: 372
Registered: February 2004
Location: St Augustine, FL
Karma: 1
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Silvernort wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 11:45I see my sig line but anyhoo: real name Shane and I live in a really small village just west of Baraboo, WI. The rig is (ostensibly) a 74 Canyon Lands. As I said in the lead post, it was sold as an Eleganze which it clearly is not. The upholstery and counter top colors etc point to the Canyon Lands scheme, not that it really matters 45 years on...
I'll get into the story of the MH in another post soon.
Shane
The sticker in the glovebox should have the actual manufacture date on it. That is assuming it is still there.
Tom Lins
St Augustine, FL
77 GM Rear Twin, Dry Bath, 455, Aluminum Radiator Quad-Bag Suspension Solar Panel
Manuals on DVD
YOUTUBE Channel: GMC Dealer Training Tapes
http://www.bdub.net/tomlins/
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| Re: VIN vs model year [message #344780 is a reply to message #344778] |
Tue, 02 July 2019 13:55 |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
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That's why the question, the VIN indicates 73 production year, but titled as 74 plus the whole number of units that were made for a given year vs the sequence number being "too high" to be 73. Something is goofy. ie: if there really were only 2059ish units made for 73, how come there is a reference to "early 73s to seq 2400" and mine being a little over 2500. No big deal, just have an interest in all things historical (45 year old motorhome, 54 year old car, 106 year old house; it's an affliction 
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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| Re: VIN vs model year [message #344830 is a reply to message #344780] |
Wed, 03 July 2019 15:17 |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
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So at the top of the glove box label is the number 092773 which I'm interpreting to be the build date of Sept 27, 1973. Still begs actually two questions:
1. If there were 2059 units made for 1973 and the first for sale was 0021 why is mine over 2500 and also the thing about "early 73 being before 2400". Was there a jump in the numbering system or???
2. Mine is titled as 74. Is it reasonable that it was a carry over to 74 or is the title more likely wrong.
Enquiring minds, etc, etc.
Shane
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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| Re: VIN vs model year [message #344839 is a reply to message #344830] |
Wed, 03 July 2019 17:49 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Silvernort wrote on Wed, 03 July 2019 16:17So at the top of the glove box label is the number 092773 which I'm interpreting to be the build date of Sept 27, 1973. Still begs actually two questions:
1. If there were 2059 units made for 1973 and the first for sale was 0021 why is mine over 2500 and also the thing about "early 73 being before 2400". Was there a jump in the numbering system or???
2. Mine is titled as 74. Is it reasonable that it was a carry over to 74 or is the title more likely wrong.
Enquiring minds, etc, etc.
Shane
Shane,
The actual VIN is the real determiner.
T Manufactured by General Motors
Z Three Axle Motorhome
E Gasoline Engine
1 Interior Code - 0-GM Interior from 1973 to 1974 1-GM Interior from 1975 to 1978
2-Twin Bed Interior for 1976 and 1977 3-Transmode (sold without interior or windows)
6 Model Code 6-Model 260 (26 feet long) 3-Model 230 (23 feet long)
7 Model Year In this case it would be 1977
V Manufacturing Plant Code V - Pontiac, Michigan
1 First Digit of Production Series Number All production started with a "1" in this position
0 Second Digit of Production Series Number Since total production was less than 13,000, all GMC units had a "0" in this position
2359 Production Sequence Number Reset to "0" each model year
Model year is only vaguely related to calendar year. The model year is completely determined by the manufacturing plant.
While that last is called a production sequence number, I very much doubt that it was a true "serial" number. Many manufactures assign this number with the original order and it often (Not Always) may not relate to the order of production. i.e. If it was ordered with equipment that is not available, the production may be held until it is.
My coach is TZE033V101650. The glove compartment sticker is gone, but it has features of being a very early build. Some things were also modified by a conscientious previous owner that found and included newer versions of several parts.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: VIN vs model year [message #344843 is a reply to message #344839] |
Wed, 03 July 2019 18:36 |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
Karma: 0
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Matt Colie wrote on Wed, 03 July 2019 17:49Silvernort wrote on Wed, 03 July 2019 16:17So at the top of the glove box label is the number 092773 which I'm interpreting to be the build date of Sept 27, 1973. Still begs actually two questions:
1. If there were 2059 units made for 1973 and the first for sale was 0021 why is mine over 2500 and also the thing about "early 73 being before 2400". Was there a jump in the numbering system or???
2. Mine is titled as 74. Is it reasonable that it was a carry over to 74 or is the title more likely wrong.
Enquiring minds, etc, etc.
Shane
Shane,
The actual VIN is the real determiner.
T Manufactured by General Motors
Z Three Axle Motorhome
E Gasoline Engine
1 Interior Code - 0-GM Interior from 1973 to 1974 1-GM Interior from 1975 to 1978
2-Twin Bed Interior for 1976 and 1977 3-Transmode (sold without interior or windows)
6 Model Code 6-Model 260 (26 feet long) 3-Model 230 (23 feet long)
7 Model Year In this case it would be 1977
V Manufacturing Plant Code V - Pontiac, Michigan
1 First Digit of Production Series Number All production started with a "1" in this position
0 Second Digit of Production Series Number Since total production was less than 13,000, all GMC units had a "0" in this position
2359 Production Sequence Number Reset to "0" each model year
Model year is only vaguely related to calendar year. The model year is completely determined by the manufacturing plant.
While that last is called a production sequence number, I very much doubt that it was a true "serial" number. Many manufactures assign this number with the original order and it often (Not Always) may not relate to the order of production. i.e. If it was ordered with equipment that is not available, the production may be held until it is.
My coach is TZE033V101650. The glove compartment sticker is gone, but it has features of being a very early build. Some things were also modified by a conscientious previous owner that found and included newer versions of several parts.
Matt
Yeah, I went thru the VIN decode and production data when I got the thing and that is what got me wondering about the variance in year and numbers. It is not unheard of for vehicles that languish at distributors or even dealers to be given a title when sold rather than built, especially back then.
So is there really no rhyme or reason to the sequence number? On other old vehicles I've worked with the sequence number has been just that, sequential, however there are often jumps and gaps usually when a mid run change is made or they have a special order. Don't know if this was the case with our motorhomes. In the end, this is just an educational exercise, but I find this stuff interesting.
Shane
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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| Re: [GMCnet] VIN vs model year [message #344845 is a reply to message #344839] |
Wed, 03 July 2019 18:40 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Why does anyone care. They made 13,000 of them, more or less. The only ones
that might be significant would be first produced, and last produced. They
were a mass produced vehicle, not quite like a Duesenberg or Ferrari where
only a handful were made, each unique from all the others. What is
important on GMC's is year model, to i.d. what equipment they might have
had when they left the factory. After that date, all bets are off.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
78 GMC ROYALE 403, left the Michigan plant in May, 1978. Upfitted by Jimmy
Industries. Sold later that year to a broker at a Honda dealership,
original owner drove it to Long Beach, Washington, where he sold it and
flew home.
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019, 4:26 PM Matt Colie via Gmclist
wrote:
> Silvernort wrote on Wed, 03 July 2019 16:17
>> So at the top of the glove box label is the number 092773 which I'm
> interpreting to be the build date of Sept 27, 1973. Still begs actually two
>> questions:
>> 1. If there were 2059 units made for 1973 and the first for sale was
> 0021 why is mine over 2500 and also the thing about "early 73 being before
>> 2400". Was there a jump in the numbering system or???
>> 2. Mine is titled as 74. Is it reasonable that it was a carry over to 74
> or is the title more likely wrong.
>>
>> Enquiring minds, etc, etc.
>>
>> Shane
>
> Shane,
>
> The actual VIN is the real determiner.
> T Manufactured by General Motors
> Z Three Axle Motorhome
> E Gasoline Engine
> 1 Interior Code - 0-GM Interior from 1973 to 1974 1-GM Interior
> from 1975 to 1978
> 2-Twin Bed Interior for 1976 and 1977 3-Transmode (sold
> without interior or windows)
> 6 Model Code 6-Model 260 (26 feet long) 3-Model 230 (23 feet long)
>
> 7 Model Year In this case it would be 1977
> V Manufacturing Plant Code V - Pontiac, Michigan
>
> 1 First Digit of Production Series Number All production started
> with a "1" in this position
> 0 Second Digit of Production Series Number Since total production
> was less than 13,000, all GMC units had a "0" in this position
> 2359 Production Sequence Number Reset to "0" each model year
> Model year is only vaguely related to calendar year. The model year is
> completely determined by the manufacturing plant.
>
> While that last is called a production sequence number, I very much doubt
> that it was a true "serial" number. Many manufactures assign this number
> with the original order and it often (Not Always) may not relate to the
> order of production. i.e. If it was ordered with equipment that is not
> available, the production may be held until it is.
>
> My coach is TZE033V101650. The glove compartment sticker is gone, but it
> has features of being a very early build. Some things were also modified by
> a conscientious previous owner that found and included newer versions of
> several parts.
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] VIN vs model year [message #344851 is a reply to message #344845] |
Wed, 03 July 2019 21:04 |
Silvernort
Messages: 95
Registered: June 2019
Location: Rock Springs, WI
Karma: 0
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James Hupy wrote on Wed, 03 July 2019 18:40Why does anyone care.>>>
Curiosity, Mr. Hupy. If something doesn't line up, I like to know why. I have taken a razor blade to the paint on my very old house to see what colors other people chose all those years ago. It adds to the story. As I stated several times; it doesn't matter but as a history buff, I like to know. I care, you don't need to.
Shane
Shane Harvey
1973 26' "Packer Backer", 1976 Palm Beach, 1965 Dart
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