Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Replacing AC compressor - Couple questions
| Replacing AC compressor - Couple questions [message #344408] |
Sat, 22 June 2019 08:03  |
Will Albers
Messages: 183
Registered: November 2017
Location: Detroit MI (Belleville)
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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My stock compressor more or less seized, so i have a S6 replacement about to go in. Would you consider a flush mandatory when swapping compressors? My thought here is that there are decades of oils built up in the system that should be removed. Am i over thinking it?
Also, on http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html - It states:
Here are some bits of information that we learned at Osoyoos: (5/5/5)
1 AC technicians do not like to use 134, it is harmful to their health.
2 You do not need a vacuum pump to charge with Hydrocarbon refrigerants like DuraCool (Propane).
3 In fact they work better if you do not pull a vacuum.
4 Propane will mix with whatever you have in your system. There's nothing to change.
5 Recover the existing refrigerant (most of our systems are already empty).
6 Add 3 cans of DuraCool
I'm very curious about #3. The link no longer works. Does anyone know why it works better without pulling a vaccum?
1978 Palm Beach.
Detroit Michigan
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| Re: Replacing AC compressor - Couple questions [message #344409 is a reply to message #344408] |
Sat, 22 June 2019 08:31  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Sir: I am not a qualified anything. Anytime your AC system is open to the atmosphere it gets air and moisture in it. Vacuuming the system removes the moisture which will freeze inside the lines and stop up the system.
As for 134-A being dangerous, I don't doubt that at all. However I use a PROAIR HFA (albuterol sulfate) inhalation aerosol for my COPD. The propellant used is 134-A.
Will Albers wrote on Sat, 22 June 2019 09:03My stock compressor more or less seized, so i have a S6 replacement about to go in. Would you consider a flush mandatory when swapping compressors? My thought here is that there are decades of oils built up in the system that should be removed. Am i over thinking it?
Also, on http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html - It states:
Here are some bits of information that we learned at Osoyoos: (5/5/5)
1 AC technicians do not like to use 134, it is harmful to their health.
2 You do not need a vacuum pump to charge with Hydrocarbon refrigerants like DuraCool (Propane).
3 In fact they work better if you do not pull a vacuum.
4 Propane will mix with whatever you have in your system. There's nothing to change.
5 Recover the existing refrigerant (most of our systems are already empty).
6 Add 3 cans of DuraCool
I'm very curious about #3. The link no longer works. Does anyone know why it works better without pulling a vaccum?
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacing AC compressor - Couple questions [message #344410 is a reply to message #344408] |
Sat, 22 June 2019 10:16 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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I was at Osoyoos Canada in 05. The planked salmon was fantastic!
I did a few installs of Duracool while there.
I agree with your statements
except numbers 2 and 3.
There are times when you do need to evacuate the system. If is has been open to the atmosphere so as to allow air and moisture in it should be evacuated. If the system is still sealed and has pressure then most people look over their shoulder to make sure the air conditioning police are not looking and bleed off the old refrigerant and install Duracool. You can not recover what is in there unless you have the machine to do it.
As to working better if you don’t pull a vacuum that is exactly the opposite of what I believe. It will usually work but if you leave some of the old refrigerant in you will have a mixture of refrigerants and that will not work as efficiently as straight Duracool. So it is best to evacuate if you have a vacuum pump. If there is ang chance that there is water moisture in the system that should definitely be vacuumed out.
How can there be decades of oils built up in the system if you haven’t added any oil? The oil in there doesn’t degrade.
The only reason to flush is if you have a mixture of oils in the system. They can eventually interact and form “sludge” in the system. The last time I replaced a compressor, the new compressor contained oil suitable for R-134a and that would be mixed with the mineral oil used for R-12. So, I drained the oil from the new compressor and measured how much it contained. I then flushed out the compressor with naphtha or mineral spirits a couple of times and pressure blew it out with dry air. I then installed the same volume I drained out with mineral oil for air conditioners from NAPA.
By the way, it was discovered years back that R134a exposure can cause testicular cancer. That would scare any man!
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick CO
> On Jun 22, 2019, at 7:03 AM, Will Albers via Gmclist wrote:
>
> My stock compressor more or less seized, so i have a S6 replacement about to go in. Would you consider a flush mandatory when swapping compressors? My
> thought here is that there are decades of oils built up in the system that should be removed. Am i over thinking it?
>
> Also, on http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html - It states:
>
> Here are some bits of information that we learned at Osoyoos: (5/5/5)
> 1 AC technicians do not like to use 134, it is harmful to their health.
> 2 You do not need a vacuum pump to charge with Hydrocarbon refrigerants like DuraCool (Propane).
> 3 In fact they work better if you do not pull a vacuum.
> 4 Propane will mix with whatever you have in your system. There's nothing to change.
> 5 Recover the existing refrigerant (most of our systems are already empty).
> 6 Add 3 cans of DuraCool
>
> I'm very curious about #3. The link no longer works. Does anyone know why it works better without pulling a vaccum?
> --
> 1978 Palm Beach.
> Detroit Michigan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacing AC compressor - Couple questions [message #344435 is a reply to message #344410] |
Sat, 22 June 2019 21:56 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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I’m with you Emery. I vacuum them down before charging.
I do a nitrogen purge and check for leaks at 300 psi because nitrogen is cheap, and it’s easier to identify bubbles than it is to look for fluorescent dye.
I don’t know about threats to my manhood from refrigerant, but I do know that inoperative AC poses significant threats from my wife.
Dolph Santorine
DE AD0LF
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
Howell EFI/EBL , Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission
> On Jun 22, 2019, at 11:16 AM, Emery Stora via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I was at Osoyoos Canada in 05. The planked salmon was fantastic!
>
> I did a few installs of Duracool while there.
>
> I agree with your statements
> except numbers 2 and 3.
>
> There are times when you do need to evacuate the system. If is has been open to the atmosphere so as to allow air and moisture in it should be evacuated. If the system is still sealed and has pressure then most people look over their shoulder to make sure the air conditioning police are not looking and bleed off the old refrigerant and install Duracool. You can not recover what is in there unless you have the machine to do it.
>
> As to working better if you don’t pull a vacuum that is exactly the opposite of what I believe. It will usually work but if you leave some of the old refrigerant in you will have a mixture of refrigerants and that will not work as efficiently as straight Duracool. So it is best to evacuate if you have a vacuum pump. If there is ang chance that there is water moisture in the system that should definitely be vacuumed out.
>
> How can there be decades of oils built up in the system if you haven’t added any oil? The oil in there doesn’t degrade.
>
> The only reason to flush is if you have a mixture of oils in the system. They can eventually interact and form “sludge” in the system. The last time I replaced a compressor, the new compressor contained oil suitable for R-134a and that would be mixed with the mineral oil used for R-12. So, I drained the oil from the new compressor and measured how much it contained. I then flushed out the compressor with naphtha or mineral spirits a couple of times and pressure blew it out with dry air. I then installed the same volume I drained out with mineral oil for air conditioners from NAPA.
>
> By the way, it was discovered years back that R134a exposure can cause testicular cancer. That would scare any man!
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick CO
>
>> On Jun 22, 2019, at 7:03 AM, Will Albers via Gmclist wrote:
>>
>> My stock compressor more or less seized, so i have a S6 replacement about to go in. Would you consider a flush mandatory when swapping compressors? My
>> thought here is that there are decades of oils built up in the system that should be removed. Am i over thinking it?
>>
>> Also, on http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html - It states:
>>
>> Here are some bits of information that we learned at Osoyoos: (5/5/5)
>> 1 AC technicians do not like to use 134, it is harmful to their health.
>> 2 You do not need a vacuum pump to charge with Hydrocarbon refrigerants like DuraCool (Propane).
>> 3 In fact they work better if you do not pull a vacuum.
>> 4 Propane will mix with whatever you have in your system. There's nothing to change.
>> 5 Recover the existing refrigerant (most of our systems are already empty).
>> 6 Add 3 cans of DuraCool
>>
>> I'm very curious about #3. The link no longer works. Does anyone know why it works better without pulling a vaccum?
>> --
>> 1978 Palm Beach.
>> Detroit Michigan
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacing AC compressor - Couple questions [message #344438 is a reply to message #344410] |
Sun, 23 June 2019 05:10 |
Will Albers
Messages: 183
Registered: November 2017
Location: Detroit MI (Belleville)
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Emory, answering your question on why i believe there is excess oil...
All of those quick over the counter a/c charge cans contain oil correct? I
believe its oil, coolant, and dye. I know my system had a minor leak, so i
wonder how many POs used the cheapest recharge can from kmart, only for the
refridgerant to leak, and leave the oils/dye at low points.
Again, i could be overthinking this.
Will
On Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 11:17 AM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I was at Osoyoos Canada in 05. The planked salmon was fantastic!
>
> I did a few installs of Duracool while there.
>
> I agree with your statements
> except numbers 2 and 3.
>
> There are times when you do need to evacuate the system. If is has been
> open to the atmosphere so as to allow air and moisture in it should be
> evacuated. If the system is still sealed and has pressure then most people
> look over their shoulder to make sure the air conditioning police are not
> looking and bleed off the old refrigerant and install Duracool. You can not
> recover what is in there unless you have the machine to do it.
>
> As to working better if you don’t pull a vacuum that is exactly the
> opposite of what I believe. It will usually work but if you leave some of
> the old refrigerant in you will have a mixture of refrigerants and that
> will not work as efficiently as straight Duracool. So it is best to
> evacuate if you have a vacuum pump. If there is ang chance that there is
> water moisture in the system that should definitely be vacuumed out.
>
> How can there be decades of oils built up in the system if you haven’t
> added any oil? The oil in there doesn’t degrade.
>
> The only reason to flush is if you have a mixture of oils in the system.
> They can eventually interact and form “sludge” in the system. The last time
> I replaced a compressor, the new compressor contained oil suitable for
> R-134a and that would be mixed with the mineral oil used for R-12. So, I
> drained the oil from the new compressor and measured how much it contained.
> I then flushed out the compressor with naphtha or mineral spirits a couple
> of times and pressure blew it out with dry air. I then installed the same
> volume I drained out with mineral oil for air conditioners from NAPA.
>
> By the way, it was discovered years back that R134a exposure can cause
> testicular cancer. That would scare any man!
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick CO
>
>> On Jun 22, 2019, at 7:03 AM, Will Albers via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> My stock compressor more or less seized, so i have a S6 replacement
> about to go in. Would you consider a flush mandatory when swapping
> compressors? My
>> thought here is that there are decades of oils built up in the system
> that should be removed. Am i over thinking it?
>>
>> Also, on http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html - It states:
>>
>> Here are some bits of information that we learned at Osoyoos: (5/5/5)
>> 1 AC technicians do not like to use 134, it is harmful to their health.
>> 2 You do not need a vacuum pump to charge with Hydrocarbon refrigerants
> like DuraCool (Propane).
>> 3 In fact they work better if you do not pull a vacuum.
>> 4 Propane will mix with whatever you have in your system. There's
> nothing to change.
>> 5 Recover the existing refrigerant (most of our systems are already
> empty).
>> 6 Add 3 cans of DuraCool
>>
>> I'm very curious about #3. The link no longer works. Does anyone know
> why it works better without pulling a vaccum?
>> --
>> 1978 Palm Beach.
>> Detroit Michigan
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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1978 Palm Beach.
Detroit Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacing AC compressor - Couple questions [message #344440 is a reply to message #344438] |
Sun, 23 June 2019 06:48 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
|
Senior Member |
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|
No, most do not contain oils and dye. You have to pay more for those than for straight refrigerant.
If you have a leak the oil will usually also leak out.
If you suspect that you have excess oil they you should drain the condenser and evaporator and compressor and flush out those components and the hoses. Then replace the drier/accumulator. The GMC maintenance manual has a chart telling how much oil to add for each component. Then evacuate and check for leaks, then recharge.
Emery Stora
> On Jun 23, 2019, at 4:10 AM, Will via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Emory, answering your question on why i believe there is excess oil...
>
> All of those quick over the counter a/c charge cans contain oil correct? I
> believe its oil, coolant, and dye. I know my system had a minor leak, so i
> wonder how many POs used the cheapest recharge can from kmart, only for the
> refridgerant to leak, and leave the oils/dye at low points.
>
> Again, i could be overthinking this.
>
> Will
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 11:17 AM Emery Stora via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I was at Osoyoos Canada in 05. The planked salmon was fantastic!
>>
>> I did a few installs of Duracool while there.
>>
>> I agree with your statements
>> except numbers 2 and 3.
>>
>> There are times when you do need to evacuate the system. If is has been
>> open to the atmosphere so as to allow air and moisture in it should be
>> evacuated. If the system is still sealed and has pressure then most people
>> look over their shoulder to make sure the air conditioning police are not
>> looking and bleed off the old refrigerant and install Duracool. You can not
>> recover what is in there unless you have the machine to do it.
>>
>> As to working better if you don’t pull a vacuum that is exactly the
>> opposite of what I believe. It will usually work but if you leave some of
>> the old refrigerant in you will have a mixture of refrigerants and that
>> will not work as efficiently as straight Duracool. So it is best to
>> evacuate if you have a vacuum pump. If there is ang chance that there is
>> water moisture in the system that should definitely be vacuumed out.
>>
>> How can there be decades of oils built up in the system if you haven’t
>> added any oil? The oil in there doesn’t degrade.
>>
>> The only reason to flush is if you have a mixture of oils in the system.
>> They can eventually interact and form “sludge” in the system. The last time
>> I replaced a compressor, the new compressor contained oil suitable for
>> R-134a and that would be mixed with the mineral oil used for R-12. So, I
>> drained the oil from the new compressor and measured how much it contained.
>> I then flushed out the compressor with naphtha or mineral spirits a couple
>> of times and pressure blew it out with dry air. I then installed the same
>> volume I drained out with mineral oil for air conditioners from NAPA.
>>
>> By the way, it was discovered years back that R134a exposure can cause
>> testicular cancer. That would scare any man!
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Frederick CO
>>
>>> On Jun 22, 2019, at 7:03 AM, Will Albers via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> My stock compressor more or less seized, so i have a S6 replacement
>> about to go in. Would you consider a flush mandatory when swapping
>> compressors? My
>>> thought here is that there are decades of oils built up in the system
>> that should be removed. Am i over thinking it?
>>>
>>> Also, on http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html - It states:
>>>
>>> Here are some bits of information that we learned at Osoyoos: (5/5/5)
>>> 1 AC technicians do not like to use 134, it is harmful to their health.
>>> 2 You do not need a vacuum pump to charge with Hydrocarbon refrigerants
>> like DuraCool (Propane).
>>> 3 In fact they work better if you do not pull a vacuum.
>>> 4 Propane will mix with whatever you have in your system. There's
>> nothing to change.
>>> 5 Recover the existing refrigerant (most of our systems are already
>> empty).
>>> 6 Add 3 cans of DuraCool
>>>
>>> I'm very curious about #3. The link no longer works. Does anyone know
>> why it works better without pulling a vaccum?
>>> --
>>> 1978 Palm Beach.
>>> Detroit Michigan
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: Replacing AC compressor - Couple questions [message #344479 is a reply to message #344408] |
Mon, 24 June 2019 07:47 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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If yopu are a cheapskate (guilty) and if you have the means, pull a vacuum overnight on the drier, and heat it with a heat lamp. This will remove the moisture trapped in it.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Replacing AC compressor - Couple questions [message #344486 is a reply to message #344485] |
Mon, 24 June 2019 09:38 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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My a/c tech and I tend to fight about the drier as I like to save $ on my
own coach, but experience dictate it it is not worth the $30 to gamble.
On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 7:30 AM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> HOWEVER it is both a filter and a drier. You can get the moisture out but
> not any solids or particles. You could also flush the old oil from your
> engine oil filter and use it over but would you?
>
> The savings you might gain with not replacing the air conditioner
> filter/drier would quickly disappear if you later have to replace it and
> recharge the system.
>
> Emery Stora
> 7 Kingsley
> Frederick CO
>
>> On Jun 24, 2019, at 6:47 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> If yopu are a cheapskate (guilty) and if you have the means, pull a
> vacuum overnight on the drier, and heat it with a heat lamp. This will
> remove the
>> moisture trapped in it.
>>
>> --johnny
>> --
>> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
>> Braselton, Ga.
>> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to
> me in hell
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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