Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » converter tripping GFI
| converter tripping GFI [message #343783] |
Wed, 29 May 2019 08:47  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I somehow got dragged into fixing a fish house issue. This is on a fairly new fish house, that is really just a big fancy RV. I think i have the same problem with my GMC, but is not a problem all the time.
The fish house, when you plug into a GFCI protected outlet, it instantly pops the GFCI. I am about to start tracing the wiring, and at first glance it looks OK. I remember that I have found this on my GMC in some cases, and I had it diagnosed to my PD converter. I have not done anything further with the GMC.
anyway, it looks to be a very common problem, with no good answers on the Net, so I thought I would ask here. I did read this statement:
GFCI devices trigger at current leakages above 5 milliamps they can cause problem for RVers that have switching type Power Converters in their RV's. These switching type power converters usually have built in input RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) suppression filters to keep high frequency energy off of incoming wiring. During normal operation of the power converter these RFI filters will exceed 5 milliamps of current leakage causing GFCI Devices to trip
is that a true statement?
I sure like our GMC's with the separate 110v panel, and the converter/12volts as a separate unit. This fish house has an atwood APS-55 with the 12v, 110v all in one box, it is stuffed in there and hard to work on/see the wiring.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] converter tripping GFI [message #343786 is a reply to message #343783] |
Wed, 29 May 2019 09:35  |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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There are variables in Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters, or GFCI's as
they are often referred to. Some are hypersensitive and trip when there is
no detectable fault. My suggestion would be for you to assure absolute
integrity in the wiring and related stuff in the fish shack, and then
replace the suspect GFCI. I have replaced several of them. BUT ABSOLUTELY
VERIFY THAT THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS FIRST. With electricity, you only get
one chance to be wrong.
Jim Hupy
On Wed, May 29, 2019, 6:47 AM Jon Roche via Gmclist
wrote:
> I somehow got dragged into fixing a fish house issue. This is on a
> fairly new fish house, that is really just a big fancy RV. I think i
> have the
> same problem with my GMC, but is not a problem all the time.
>
> The fish house, when you plug into a GFCI protected outlet, it instantly
> pops the GFCI. I am about to start tracing the wiring, and at first
> glance
> it looks OK. I remember that I have found this on my GMC in some cases,
> and I had it diagnosed to my PD converter. I have not done anything
> further with the GMC.
>
> anyway, it looks to be a very common problem, with no good answers on the
> Net, so I thought I would ask here. I did read this statement:
>
> GFCI devices trigger at current leakages above 5 milliamps they can cause
> problem for RVers that have switching type Power Converters in their RV's.
> These switching type power converters usually have built in input RFI
> (Radio Frequency Interference) suppression filters to keep high frequency
> energy
> off of incoming wiring. During normal operation of the power converter
> these RFI filters will exceed 5 milliamps of current leakage causing GFCI
> Devices to trip
>
> is that a true statement?
>
> I sure like our GMC's with the separate 110v panel, and the
> converter/12volts as a separate unit. This fish house has an atwood
> APS-55 with the 12v,
> 110v all in one box, it is stuffed in there and hard to work on/see the
> wiring.
>
>
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: converter tripping GFI [message #343788 is a reply to message #343783] |
Wed, 29 May 2019 11:04 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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it was popping GFI's at a couple different locations. That is why I was asked to look into it, because it was headed to storage where it probably will pop another GFI.
I might have asked the question pre-maturely, but I know I have had issues on my GMC, and others. I swear my gmc will pop a GFCI when you plug in the PD converter... I have a ground cheater in there for that, but it is very rare I need to plug into a GFCI and use the converter, since I have solar that can charge the batteries.
Bottom line on this fish house, that retail price I just googled at $26,000- gets you a shaved off neutral wire at the fridge outlet touching the ground. Funny thing is, I thought he told me he had it in twice for service and mentioned this problem.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: converter tripping GFI [message #343789 is a reply to message #343783] |
Wed, 29 May 2019 11:49 |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I don't know about the converter issue but I resolved a GFCI fault on my rig a few years ago. There was a poorly wired outlet where the neutral wire was contacting the ground. If you shut off all the breakers and the GFCI trips with any combination turned back on, then you have a neutral fault. From there you can disconnect individual neutral wires to find the affected circuit.
Or you could do like my PO and just unhook the ground wire in the back of the box.
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Re: converter tripping GFI [message #343798 is a reply to message #343783] |
Wed, 29 May 2019 17:39 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I have not had GFCI tripping with my IOTA convertor. I have not opened it but suspect chokes and or ferite beads on the incoming H and N. I would not expect a connection to ground other than the ground to chassis. The GFCI does not trip as long as the AC wave on the H matchs the same on the N. If different there is an imbalance and it trips. Often this is because the G is acting as a current return path, when it should only be a safety path.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: converter tripping GFI [message #343806 is a reply to message #343783] |
Thu, 30 May 2019 17:34 |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Jon,
There are known electrical issues when plugging an RV shore line into a GFI outlet. I have recently been troubleshooting this myself and have found various articles on the issue. I have found that beyond true ground fault issues, there can be other things that cause the GFI circuit to trip. One possibility is the power converter, another is the transfer method between the shore line and the Onan. Some PO's have modified the transfer method by installing either an automatic transfer switch or a manual transfer switch that only transfers the power or hot lead, and not the neutral. This turned out to be my situation. When I plugged my shore line into a GFI outlet, the GFI was sensing the common neutral and ground from within the Onan. The Onan has a bonded neutral and the GFI was sensing that through the transfer switch.
Always safety first when working with electricity. Best to leave it to the experts. I am a bookkeeper, not an electrician.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
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| Re: converter tripping GFI [message #343808 is a reply to message #343806] |
Thu, 30 May 2019 23:31 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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That is one of the "got yas" when installing one of those automated transfer switches on a 50 amp GMC with a 4 conductor shore power plug, you need a transfer switch that transfers 4 leads. 2 hot, 1 neutral, and the safety "green wire" ground. On a GMC with a 30 amp (3 conductor shore power plug) you need a 3 pole transfer switch.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: converter tripping GFI [message #343809 is a reply to message #343783] |
Fri, 31 May 2019 07:44 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Good points. Simple test by metering the male shore power cable to be sure no continuity between ground and neutral. If there is, open coach panel and narrow it down to issue or seen if a transfer switch has been added.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: converter tripping GFI [message #343812 is a reply to message #343783] |
Fri, 31 May 2019 08:26 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I saw one like Ken notes. The three pole relay swapped both hots and neutral, the coach had the single ground connection on either position. Shore power had the single ground connection. Ain't gonna work that way with dueling connections.
BTW, what's a fish house?
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] converter tripping GFI [message #343814 is a reply to message #343812] |
Fri, 31 May 2019 09:25 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Something they tow out onto frozen lakes, bore a hole in the ice, and drown
worms through. Occasionally they pull out a northern pike, or muskie that
they drag home as proof that they really were fishing.
Jim Hupy
On Fri, May 31, 2019, 6:33 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I saw one like Ken notes. The three pole relay swapped both hots and
> neutral, the coach had the single ground connection on either position.
> Shore
> power had the single ground connection. Ain't gonna work that way with
> dueling connections.
> BTW, what's a fish house?
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: converter tripping GFI [message #343816 is a reply to message #343783] |
Fri, 31 May 2019 11:00 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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OK, saw those in WI when I was there one December. Not seen around here. I thought it might be the nickname for SOB.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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