Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » LiFePo4 house battery upgrade
| LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343685] |
Sun, 26 May 2019 08:28  |
 |
RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Has anyone upgraded their house battery to LiFePO4?
For those unfamiliar with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, they have the following advantages:
- Weighs about 1/3 of lead-acid for the same charge capacity.
- They have very low self discharge rate (will hold a charge for months)
- Can be safely discharged to 10-20% of rated capacity (LA batteries should not be discharged below 50%)
- Can be quickly recharged in about 3 hours
- Does not need to be kept at full charge (can be partially recharged without affecting charge cycle life of battery)
- can endure 1500+ recharge cycles ( may be the last battery you need to buy)
- Very stable and safe to use, but less capacity than the LiIon versions used in cellphones and laptops.
Disadvantages:
- Battery is expensive to buy,(be less expensive after calculating number of recharge cycles and more usable capacity so fewer rated AmpHrs needed)
- Cannot be recharged if battery is below freezing
- Requires a "Smarter" battery charger (converter) for maximum charge cycle life and fastest charging rate.
Some more info:
https://www.progressivedyn.com/frequently-asked-questions-on-converting-to-lithium-charging/
Just wondering about the experiences of those out there using these batteries now.
Thanks for your input.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343688 is a reply to message #343685] |
Sun, 26 May 2019 09:52  |
|
|
Vern Crawford has 5 or 6 in his GMC beneath the couch. Roof covered with
panels. He loaned me his 30 a cable at Tallahasee as he never bothered to
hook up. Also sold his Onan while there.
bdub
On Sun, May 26, 2019, 8:29 AM Bruce Hislop via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Has anyone upgraded their house battery to LiFePO4?
>
> For those unfamiliar with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, they have the
> following advantages:
> - Weighs about 1/3 of lead-acid for the same charge capacity.
> - They have very low self discharge rate (will hold a charge for months)
> - Can be safely discharged to 10-20% of rated capacity (LA batteries
> should not be discharged below 50%)
> - Can be quickly recharged in about 3 hours
> - Does not need to be kept at full charge (can be partially recharged
> without affecting charge cycle life of battery)
> - can endure 1500+ recharge cycles ( may be the last battery you need to
> buy)
> - Very stable and safe to use, but less capacity than the LiIon versions
> used in cellphones and laptops.
>
> Disadvantages:
> - Battery is expensive to buy,(be less expensive after calculating number
> of recharge cycles and more usable capacity so fewer rated AmpHrs needed)
> - Cannot be recharged if battery is below freezing
> - Requires a "Smarter" battery charger (converter) for maximum charge
> cycle life and fastest charging rate.
>
> Some more info:
>
> https://www.progressivedyn.com/frequently-asked-questions-on-converting-to-lithium-charging/
>
> Just wondering about the experiences of those out there using these
> batteries now.
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> --
> Bruce Hislop
> ON Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
bdub
bdub.net
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343690 is a reply to message #343688] |
Sun, 26 May 2019 12:17 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Fairly easy chore to convert a GMC to self sufficiency as far as electrical
needs go. But, Ocean going Ferry Boats are quite another subject. Even with
oars out the portholes, and solar panels covering every square inch of
outer surface, and sails, and half of the usable cargo spaces taken up with
the best batteries available, you can't even see the other shore before you
run out of watts. Not yet, anyway. But, we can narrow the gap.
Eventually, lack of resources will force our hand, if some dickwad
with crazy for brains does not hide some nuclear devices in an incoming
sea/land container in one of our port cities first.
Jim Hupy
On Sun, May 26, 2019, 9:55 AM Billy Massey via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Vern Crawford has 5 or 6 in his GMC beneath the couch. Roof covered with
> panels. He loaned me his 30 a cable at Tallahasee as he never bothered to
> hook up. Also sold his Onan while there.
> bdub
>
> On Sun, May 26, 2019, 8:29 AM Bruce Hislop via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone upgraded their house battery to LiFePO4?
>>
>> For those unfamiliar with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, they have the
>> following advantages:
>> - Weighs about 1/3 of lead-acid for the same charge capacity.
>> - They have very low self discharge rate (will hold a charge for months)
>> - Can be safely discharged to 10-20% of rated capacity (LA batteries
>> should not be discharged below 50%)
>> - Can be quickly recharged in about 3 hours
>> - Does not need to be kept at full charge (can be partially recharged
>> without affecting charge cycle life of battery)
>> - can endure 1500+ recharge cycles ( may be the last battery you need to
>> buy)
>> - Very stable and safe to use, but less capacity than the LiIon versions
>> used in cellphones and laptops.
>>
>> Disadvantages:
>> - Battery is expensive to buy,(be less expensive after calculating number
>> of recharge cycles and more usable capacity so fewer rated AmpHrs needed)
>> - Cannot be recharged if battery is below freezing
>> - Requires a "Smarter" battery charger (converter) for maximum charge
>> cycle life and fastest charging rate.
>>
>> Some more info:
>>
>>
> https://www.progressivedyn.com/frequently-asked-questions-on-converting-to-lithium-charging/
>>
>> Just wondering about the experiences of those out there using these
>> batteries now.
>>
>> Thanks for your input.
>>
>> --
>> Bruce Hislop
>> ON Canada
>> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
>> My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343694 is a reply to message #343685] |
Sun, 26 May 2019 16:03 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I know this is a tough decision.
I have observed a couple of SOLAR installations that upgraded to the lithiums. They had modest expectations and for led lighting, some tv, computer, maybe microwave, it works fine.
One person thought he could run a RV AC with 3 of these lithiums but only got an hour or so run time. Even with his 1200 watt solar array, the AC was still eating power from the batteries during the day.
If you watch your load, they can be a good power reserve.
THe cost is incredible, something like almost $1000 for a 125 AH battery
The charging can be adjusted on a good controller, it is something to do with the voltage I believe.
But with the GMC's being stored in the Winter, the charging when it is below 32 degress becomes a concern.
The report I read said if the battery is frozen and you try to charge it, it will be destroyed.
They did not go on about HOW IT IS DESTROYED. As FIRE seems to go with this type of battery, that would
be a big item to research and learn.
One outfit claims that the battery MAY have a circuit to protect the battery from charging when that cold,
but then you have to be concerned about the battery going dead because that will kill it too.
My VOLT has a huge Lithium battery, it never is charged to 100% and it is never allowed to go to a dead battery state.
This is all done by the smart electronics on board.
ALSO, the car maintains an operating temperature on the battery. Strangely enough, the battery likes termperatures
around the ambient that people do. The car has a built in cooler and heater to maintain this.
I can't imagine the smaller type you are referring to being a lot different.
Placement for the battery may need to be inside so it can be heated in the winter and cooled in the summer, as I
said, it likes the ambient temps that people do.
I have looked at these and if I were rich, I might try taking them on, but the cold weather storage becomes
a concern for me.
Anyone have any info on the cold storage solution?????
are any different.
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
[Updated on: Sun, 26 May 2019 16:12] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343695 is a reply to message #343694] |
Sun, 26 May 2019 16:23 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Billy, I am not sure which language you are referring to. But, if any
GMC'er out there was offended by something I said in that last email, I
sincerely apologize for that. Terrorism is a real and present danger to
everyone.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Sun, May 26, 2019, 2:04 PM slc via Gmclist
wrote:
> I know this is a tough decision.
>
> THe cost is incredible, something like almost $1000 for a 125 AH battery
>
> The charging can be adjusted on a good controller, it is something to do
> with the voltage I believe.
>
> But with the GMC's being stored in the Winter, the charging when it is
> below 32 degress becomes a concern.
> The report I read said if the battery is frozen and you try to charge it,
> it will be destroyed.
> They did not go on about HOW IT IS DESTROYED. As FIRE seems to go with
> this type of battery, that would
> be a big item to research and learn.
> One outfit claims that the battery MAY have a circuit to protect the
> battery from charging when that cold,
> but then you have to be concerned about the battery going dead because
> that will kill it too.
>
> My VOLT has a huge Lithium battery, it never is charged to 100% and it is
> never allowed to go to a dead battery state.
> This is all done by the smart electronics on board.
> ALSO, the car maintains an operating temperature on the battery.
> Strangely enough, the battery likes termperatures
> around the ambient that people do. The car has a built in cooler and
> heater to maintain this.
> I can't imagine the smaller type you are referring to being a lot
> different.
> Placement for the battery may need to be inside so it can be heated in the
> winter and cooled in the summer, as I
> said, it likes the ambient temps that people do.
>
> I have looked at these and if I were rich, I might try taking them on, but
> the cold weather storage becomes
> a concern for me.
>
> Anyone have any info on the cold storage solution?????
> are any different.
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343696 is a reply to message #343694] |
Sun, 26 May 2019 16:19 |
Mike Kelley
Messages: 467
Registered: February 2017
Karma: -2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Gatsbyscruise:
Vern Crawford would be the guy to talk to about this subject. Not sure of his knowledge of freezing weather - as his home is in Central Tx., but I know he travels north a lot w/ his solar paneled/large storage batteried GMC coach. And he is knowledgeable and a hoot to talk with!
Mike/The Corvair a holic
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 26, 2019, at 4:03 PM, slc via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I know this is a tough decision.
>
> THe cost is incredible, something like almost $1000 for a 125 AH battery
>
> The charging can be adjusted on a good controller, it is something to do with the voltage I believe.
>
> But with the GMC's being stored in the Winter, the charging when it is below 32 degress becomes a concern.
> The report I read said if the battery is frozen and you try to charge it, it will be destroyed.
> They did not go on about HOW IT IS DESTROYED. As FIRE seems to go with this type of battery, that would
> be a big item to research and learn.
> One outfit claims that the battery MAY have a circuit to protect the battery from charging when that cold,
> but then you have to be concerned about the battery going dead because that will kill it too.
>
> My VOLT has a huge Lithium battery, it never is charged to 100% and it is never allowed to go to a dead battery state.
> This is all done by the smart electronics on board.
> ALSO, the car maintains an operating temperature on the battery. Strangely enough, the battery likes termperatures
> around the ambient that people do. The car has a built in cooler and heater to maintain this.
> I can't imagine the smaller type you are referring to being a lot different.
> Placement for the battery may need to be inside so it can be heated in the winter and cooled in the summer, as I
> said, it likes the ambient temps that people do.
>
> I have looked at these and if I were rich, I might try taking them on, but the cold weather storage becomes
> a concern for me.
>
> Anyone have any info on the cold storage solution?????
> are any different.
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343697 is a reply to message #343694] |
Sun, 26 May 2019 17:17 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
You could put an electric heater set for 40 F in the battery compartment or
move the batteries to a warmer location.
On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 2:04 PM slc via Gmclist
wrote:
> I know this is a tough decision.
>
> THe cost is incredible, something like almost $1000 for a 125 AH battery
>
> The charging can be adjusted on a good controller, it is something to do
> with the voltage I believe.
>
> But with the GMC's being stored in the Winter, the charging when it is
> below 32 degress becomes a concern.
> The report I read said if the battery is frozen and you try to charge it,
> it will be destroyed.
> They did not go on about HOW IT IS DESTROYED. As FIRE seems to go with
> this type of battery, that would
> be a big item to research and learn.
> One outfit claims that the battery MAY have a circuit to protect the
> battery from charging when that cold,
> but then you have to be concerned about the battery going dead because
> that will kill it too.
>
> My VOLT has a huge Lithium battery, it never is charged to 100% and it is
> never allowed to go to a dead battery state.
> This is all done by the smart electronics on board.
> ALSO, the car maintains an operating temperature on the battery.
> Strangely enough, the battery likes termperatures
> around the ambient that people do. The car has a built in cooler and
> heater to maintain this.
> I can't imagine the smaller type you are referring to being a lot
> different.
> Placement for the battery may need to be inside so it can be heated in the
> winter and cooled in the summer, as I
> said, it likes the ambient temps that people do.
>
> I have looked at these and if I were rich, I might try taking them on, but
> the cold weather storage becomes
> a concern for me.
>
> Anyone have any info on the cold storage solution?????
> are any different.
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343698 is a reply to message #343688] |
Sun, 26 May 2019 17:18 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I just found this and would like to share. It is partly about batteries but
mostly about California. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5cm7HOAqZY
On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 3:17 PM John Phillips
wrote:
> You could put an electric heater set for 40 F in the battery compartment
> or move the batteries to a warmer location.
>
> On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 2:04 PM slc via Gmclist
> wrote:
>
>> I know this is a tough decision.
>>
>> THe cost is incredible, something like almost $1000 for a 125 AH battery
>>
>> The charging can be adjusted on a good controller, it is something to do
>> with the voltage I believe.
>>
>> But with the GMC's being stored in the Winter, the charging when it is
>> below 32 degress becomes a concern.
>> The report I read said if the battery is frozen and you try to charge it,
>> it will be destroyed.
>> They did not go on about HOW IT IS DESTROYED. As FIRE seems to go with
>> this type of battery, that would
>> be a big item to research and learn.
>> One outfit claims that the battery MAY have a circuit to protect the
>> battery from charging when that cold,
>> but then you have to be concerned about the battery going dead because
>> that will kill it too.
>>
>> My VOLT has a huge Lithium battery, it never is charged to 100% and it is
>> never allowed to go to a dead battery state.
>> This is all done by the smart electronics on board.
>> ALSO, the car maintains an operating temperature on the battery.
>> Strangely enough, the battery likes termperatures
>> around the ambient that people do. The car has a built in cooler and
>> heater to maintain this.
>> I can't imagine the smaller type you are referring to being a lot
>> different.
>> Placement for the battery may need to be inside so it can be heated in
>> the winter and cooled in the summer, as I
>> said, it likes the ambient temps that people do.
>>
>> I have looked at these and if I were rich, I might try taking them on,
>> but the cold weather storage becomes
>> a concern for me.
>>
>> Anyone have any info on the cold storage solution?????
>> are any different.
>> --
>> GatsbysCruise. \
>> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
>> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
>> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
>> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
>
--
*John Phillips*
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
|
|
|
|
| Re: LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343707 is a reply to message #343685] |
Mon, 27 May 2019 01:57 |
Handyman
Messages: 229
Registered: April 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Two kinds of lithium batteries for MH use are to be considered: LiFePO4 and LFeYPO4
The first, more common, not capable of being (re)charged below freezing point (our 0 degrees Celsius)
The Ytrium makes the batteries better chargeable bellow the freezing point, but still there is a limit ...
I did put 2 lithium batteries in my European MH (Hymer) and chose the LiFePO4, because they are stored inside, in the same compartment as my ALDE Heating is located. And even if the heating wasn't running, a wireless thermometer gave me info on the temperature inside, and it stayed above freezing temperatures.
Since Lithium batteries are capable of keeping their energy very good, disconnecting is no problem for many months.
And stored that way, they don't need recharging, and temps below freezing don't harm them ... ok there is a limit, but here in the Netherlands we don't see those extremes that much.
Another thing to consider, with BMS and electronics, all good LIFePO4 and LiFePO4 are well protected for those temperature conditions, overcharging etc.
My two batteries, simply don't accept any charging anymore around freezing temps.
Choosing your batteries, is different for every situation.
What is the space that's available, connections, cable routing, but also your budget.
As for every charging system, cabling should be 100%, connections and fuses also.
Let's not right away look at the costs, then they can be discharged very much, 10% left is no problem. Some manufacturers even say you can go 100% discharging.
Often the capacity the manufacturer claims is less, they give you a number they can guarantee, mostly it is even more (mine are at least 10Ah more, as for my tests and Victron Batterie Monitor)
Voltage keeps up very good, mostly >13 volt, even using an inverter and using 100A or more.
Combining 2 or more batteries is much less problematic compared to lead accidents batteries.
Weight is really low, so less weight for the coach.
You can go for easy install, batteries in which all important electronics is integrated, or if you are knowledgeable, build them with separate cells, BMS, fuses etc, yourself (the Internet is your friend)
I choose for a German Build (of course there will be Chines parts in there too) that had the exact same dimensions as for my old AGM batteries, Hymer did install (a very common type installed in all of their MH) and that were 2 AGM 80 Ah batteries, they were after 5 years going slowly bad.
I could swap them 1 on 1 ... so reconnecting was very easy, even connection on same spot etc.
As for the specific charging I added a Victron 15A Charger, capable of charging LiOn batteries the right way, and combined it simply with the existing charger, which had to be only switched to lead accid, so they charge both the batteries, till almost the end phase, there the original charger thinks his job is done and goes into float. the Victron completes the charging the right way.
Another advantage, charging goes till the 100% limit, constantly and very powerful. I see 35A floating till 14.4 volt and then it goes into float.
One thing to consider, charging through your alternator goes much quicker too, so cables should be big. Fuse both sides. And if you want to do it even a little better, or if you need to limit the max amount of Amps, use a Batteriy Booster (the name confuses a bit, they can boost, but also limit you charge Amps)
There is a lot info out there and I certainly can't cover all ins and outs. Nor my installation is the non plus ultra, but I am very satisfied.
In summer and winter I can use lights, heating (pump and electronics) my compressor fridge, TV and satellite disk, and if needed, over inverter a Micro Wave or Marjon her hair blower. For days. And yes .... NO AC ... but if you want that you have to go the WINNABAGO way, they have no 200Ah batts, no they have 1200Ah batts and more installed in their test vehicles, combined with a second alternator exclusive for charging the batteries and even giving enough energy to run the house AC during the ride.
In my US GMC still a normal 225 Ah battery does his job, and I won't change that, for now.
I hope this is making a choice easier.
And of course don't forget the costs, my install did cost me 2000€ two years ago, including all cables, crimping, fuse holders etc.
A very good Mastervolt AGM batterie of 400 Ah capacity at 4x the weight should cost you also 1600€ ...
Because they only can be discharged at a max of 50% you only can compare the 200 Ah lithium batteries with a 400Ah Lead Accid batteriies.
And to be honest compare a good quality manufacturer with the Lithium batteries also, since they are also of high quality.
Don't go for cheap. Go for US distributor or Dutch/German as I did.
Doing it yourself with the very good Winston LiFeYPO4 cells, BMS etc is also a possibly if you are technically inclined ... you save some money, but not 50%, perhaps max 20%.
Installing the batteries yourself helps also in saving some money. But don't do this if you aren't fully confident and knowledgeable in what you are doing.
Shorting out a Lithium batterie can be even more "Interesting" then a Lead accidentally ...
Bye, Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343708 is a reply to message #343707] |
Mon, 27 May 2019 03:13 |
Vern Crawford
Messages: 81
Registered: August 2016
Karma: -1
|
Member |
|
|
Lenore and are Boondocking at the 18 day Kerrville Folk Festival,
https://www.kerrvillefolkfestival.org/
Which for us is actually about a month onsite.
Our 500ah LiFePo4 bank is made up of 5 (size 27 case) 100ah batteries
weighing 31# each, total weight of 155#. Because there is no gassing or
corrosion with LiFePo4 cells, they can be installed inside the living
quarters, adjacent to electric instruments and equipment with harm. Thus,
the batteries live can share living space with us humans in above freezing
conditions, so the charging is not an issue. Also all of the 100ah LiFePo4
batteries that I’ve seen have built-in circuits that do not allow charging
in freezing conditions.
Also, the electrical effectiveness of LiFePo4 vs. Led Acid or Gel, allows
much more weight savings. Throughout the entire useful discharge (say down
to 10% remaining or less, the voltage remains at 13.15v or better, compared
to wet-cell/Gel which drop to +/-12.0v at 50%.
We are going into our second year of total solar (zero shore power). We
often end up sharing some of our excess power with other campers.
Basically, we very pleased with what we have.
On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:58 AM Daniel Jacobs via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Two kinds of lithium batteries for MH use are to be considered: LiFePO4
> and LFeYPO4
> The first, more common, not capable of being (re)charged below freezing
> point (our 0 degrees Celsius)
> The Ytrium makes the batteries better chargeable bellow the freezing
> point, but still there is a limit ...
>
> I did put 2 lithium batteries in my European MH (Hymer) and chose the
> LiFePO4, because they are stored inside, in the same compartment as my ALDE
> Heating is located. And even if the heating wasn't running, a wireless
> thermometer gave me info on the temperature inside, and it stayed above
> freezing temperatures.
> Since Lithium batteries are capable of keeping their energy very good,
> disconnecting is no problem for many months.
> And stored that way, they don't need recharging, and temps below freezing
> don't harm them ... ok there is a limit, but here in the Netherlands we
> don't see those extremes that much.
>
> Another thing to consider, with BMS and electronics, all good LIFePO4 and
> LiFePO4 are well protected for those temperature conditions, overcharging
> etc.
> My two batteries, simply don't accept any charging anymore around freezing
> temps.
>
> Choosing your batteries, is different for every situation.
> What is the space that's available, connections, cable routing, but also
> your budget.
> As for every charging system, cabling should be 100%, connections and
> fuses also.
>
> Let's not right away look at the costs, then they can be discharged very
> much, 10% left is no problem. Some manufacturers even say you can go 100%
> discharging.
> Often the capacity the manufacturer claims is less, they give you a number
> they can guarantee, mostly it is even more (mine are at least 10Ah more, as
> for my tests and Victron Batterie Monitor)
> Voltage keeps up very good, mostly >13 volt, even using an inverter and
> using 100A or more.
> Combining 2 or more batteries is much less problematic compared to lead
> accidents batteries.
> Weight is really low, so less weight for the coach.
> You can go for easy install, batteries in which all important electronics
> is integrated, or if you are knowledgeable, build them with separate cells,
> BMS, fuses etc, yourself (the Internet is your friend)
>
> I choose for a German Build (of course there will be Chines parts in there
> too) that had the exact same dimensions as for my old AGM batteries, Hymer
> did install (a very common type installed in all of their MH) and that
> were 2 AGM 80 Ah batteries, they were after 5 years going slowly bad.
>
> I could swap them 1 on 1 ... so reconnecting was very easy, even
> connection on same spot etc.
> As for the specific charging I added a Victron 15A Charger, capable of
> charging LiOn batteries the right way, and combined it simply with the
> existing
> charger, which had to be only switched to lead accid, so they charge both
> the batteries, till almost the end phase, there the original charger thinks
> his job is done and goes into float. the Victron completes the charging
> the right way.
> Another advantage, charging goes till the 100% limit, constantly and very
> powerful. I see 35A floating till 14.4 volt and then it goes into float.
>
> One thing to consider, charging through your alternator goes much quicker
> too, so cables should be big. Fuse both sides. And if you want to do it even
> a little better, or if you need to limit the max amount of Amps, use a
> Batteriy Booster (the name confuses a bit, they can boost, but also limit
> you
> charge Amps)
>
> There is a lot info out there and I certainly can't cover all ins and
> outs. Nor my installation is the non plus ultra, but I am very satisfied.
> In summer and winter I can use lights, heating (pump and electronics) my
> compressor fridge, TV and satellite disk, and if needed, over inverter a
> Micro Wave or Marjon her hair blower. For days. And yes .... NO AC ...
> but if you want that you have to go the WINNABAGO way, they have no 200Ah
> batts, no they have 1200Ah batts and more installed in their test
> vehicles, combined with a second alternator exclusive for charging the
> batteries and
> even giving enough energy to run the house AC during the ride.
>
> In my US GMC still a normal 225 Ah battery does his job, and I won't
> change that, for now.
>
> I hope this is making a choice easier.
> And of course don't forget the costs, my install did cost me 2000€ two
> years ago, including all cables, crimping, fuse holders etc.
> A very good Mastervolt AGM batterie of 400 Ah capacity at 4x the weight
> should cost you also 1600€ ...
> Because they only can be discharged at a max of 50% you only can compare
> the 200 Ah lithium batteries with a 400Ah Lead Accid batteriies.
> And to be honest compare a good quality manufacturer with the Lithium
> batteries also, since they are also of high quality.
> Don't go for cheap. Go for US distributor or Dutch/German as I did.
>
> Doing it yourself with the very good Winston LiFeYPO4 cells, BMS etc is
> also a possibly if you are technically inclined ... you save some money, but
> not 50%, perhaps max 20%.
> Installing the batteries yourself helps also in saving some money. But
> don't do this if you aren't fully confident and knowledgeable in what you
> are
> doing.
> Shorting out a Lithium batterie can be even more "Interesting" then a Lead
> accidentally ...
>
> Bye, Daniel
> --
> Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD.
> FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Selector Valve and Electric Pump, insulated
> GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills,
> Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Vern Crawford (and Lenore Langsdorf)
155 JJ Lane
Center Point, TX 78010
(618) 203-8296 Vern's cell
(830) 928-5550 Lenore's cell
VernCrawford@GMail.Com
LenoreLangsdorf@GMail.Com
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343709 is a reply to message #343707] |
Mon, 27 May 2019 03:33 |
Handyman
Messages: 229
Registered: April 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Here some pictures ... and I can only confirm Vern's opinion ... We are very satisfied with our setup.
And don't forget we are using a (Much better performing) Compressor Fridge, without any problem.
Consuming at most 2,5 Ah-3 Ah at 12V and much better cooling down as for a good Absorption Fridge (and no propane use 
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2019 04:09] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343710 is a reply to message #343708] |
Mon, 27 May 2019 03:33 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I don't know if you mentioned it, I didn't see it,
How many solar panels do you have to charge those batteries...
I have a pretty good idea how long you can run items on the batts, but you have to charge them too,.
Thanks
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343711 is a reply to message #343710] |
Mon, 27 May 2019 03:55 |
Handyman
Messages: 229
Registered: April 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
My setup is 110 Watt Solar on the roof of the HYMER MH, additional I carry a 150 Watt Solar Foldable unit in a sleefe kind of cover, easy in the big "Garage" of the HYMER, when we stay longer at one place, that and the excellent charging over the alternator during the ride is enough.
I wintertime I once had to connect to shore power, for a few hours, after 4 days, staying at one place, of dark weather with no sun at all.
Since we often have a system on the European MH Parkings (Places to stay) you pay only for the electricity you use, it did cost me 1€ and at a rate of 35 Amps you only need a few hours to get a lot of energy back in those lithium Batteries ...
BTW in The Flying Dutchman I also have a foldable 100Watt Solar to charge the batterie while boondocking.
PS: I had 2x 80 AH AGM Batteries installed, so usable in fact only 80 Ah ....
..... Now those 2x LiFePO4 Batteries give me at least 180 AH usable energy, if not more ..
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2019 04:07] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343714 is a reply to message #343710] |
Mon, 27 May 2019 08:59 |
Vern Crawford
Messages: 81
Registered: August 2016
Karma: -1
|
Member |
|
|
Seven panels, 960 watts total of what are called 12v panels.
Hugs,
Vern
On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 3:34 AM slc via Gmclist
wrote:
> I don't know if you mentioned it, I didn't see it,
>
> How many solar panels do you have to charge those batteries...
>
> I have a pretty good idea how long you can run items on the batts, but you
> have to charge them too,.
>
> Thanks
> --
> GatsbysCruise. \
> 74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
> Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS
> FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO -
> UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Vern Crawford (and Lenore Langsdorf)
155 JJ Lane
Center Point, TX 78010
(618) 203-8296 Vern's cell
(830) 928-5550 Lenore's cell
VernCrawford@GMail.Com
LenoreLangsdorf@GMail.Com
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LiFePo4 house battery upgrade [message #343718 is a reply to message #343714] |
Mon, 27 May 2019 11:18 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I put one Renogy 100aH battery in last fall. I knew about the not charging while frozen, but failed to understand "don't store below 20 deg for more than 2 months"
So this spring it was dead. I talked to Renogy, they suggested a smart charger
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004LWVEKS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
got it, good little charger regardless. No dice
Sent it to Renogy (on their dime, I was up front about being stupid)
They were able to "wake it up". Shipped it back to me, I paid $30 total. Next winter I'll remove it.
I pulled the 2 6V out and plan to put a tool box in it's place. The battery is under the bed, behind the onan compartment inside. I have a Victron battery monitor, the Lithium dongle for the IOTA charger and a smart solar controller. this will be my first full year with it.
We boondocks at festivals.
Once I understand our usage, I want to convert to a Danfoss compressor fridge 12V or 110v
-kelly
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2019 11:23] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sat Nov 16 01:20:40 CST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01191 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
