Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Is the main fuseable link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overlosd fires )
| [GMCnet] Is the main fuseable link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overlosd fires ) [message #339959] |
Sun, 06 January 2019 18:00  |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
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But it burns. ( GRIN.) Sure was a SHOCK when ours burned. I know that the insulation is different in someway. So is the wire material different then standard copper wire? For those that don't know what/were it is. From what I think I know. ALL 12 volt power for the vehicle. All lights including head lights ,starter solenoid, ( heater blower motor except high, A/C compressor, radio, and your ride height compressors. NOTE. Not the house 12 volt system. } Has to be delivered from the battery by way of this 16 gauge wire. A fusible link. In this system. Is to be two wire gauge sizes smaller then the largest wire in the system. As 10 gauge wire is our largest. Battery cables aren't included here. The link is about 6 inches long. And goes from the main 12 volt terminal. To a large terminal on the bottom of the horn relay. So. Is that wire just copper? Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is the main fuseable link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overlosd fires ) [message #339960 is a reply to message #339959] |
Sun, 06 January 2019 19:08  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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BobDunahugh wrote on Sun, 06 January 2019 19:00But it burns. ( GRIN.) Sure was a SHOCK when ours burned. I know that the insulation is different in someway. So is the wire material different then standard copper wire? For those that don't know what/were it is. From what I think I know. ALL 12 volt power for the vehicle. All lights including head lights ,starter solenoid, ( heater blower motor except high, A/C compressor, radio, and your ride height compressors. NOTE. Not the house 12 volt system. } Has to be delivered from the battery by way of this 16 gauge wire. A fusible link. In this system. Is to be two wire gauge sizes smaller then the largest wire in the system. As 10 gauge wire is our largest. Battery cables aren't included here. The link is about 6 inches long. And goes from the main 12 volt terminal. To a large terminal on the bottom of the horn relay. So. Is that wire just copper?
Bob Dunahugh
78 Royale
Bob,
The copper of the wire is standard, but the insulation is not. It is special high temperature stuff so the copper can get melted out and not start a fire. That is after all, the idea.
I have though about replacing it with one of the Gonzo Mama fuses that they sell for car audio, but I don't have a good number for what the maximum load is on that link under normal circumstances.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is the main fuseable link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overlosd fires ) [message #339961 is a reply to message #339960] |
Sun, 06 January 2019 19:24 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Really unusual but, the insulation gets so hot that it melts the insulation
from the normal other conductors in the loom. Fixed several of these, it is
no walk in the park. You don't want ANY WIRES that hot, any time if it can
be avoided. Only bad stuff happens when you burn a fusible link.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Sun, Jan 6, 2019, 5:09 PM Matt Colie BobDunahugh wrote on Sun, 06 January 2019 19:00[/color]
>> But it burns. ( GRIN.) Sure was a SHOCK when ours burned. I know that
> the insulation is different in someway. So is the wire material different
>> then standard copper wire? For those that don't know what/were it is.
> From what I think I know. ALL 12 volt power for the vehicle. All lights
>> including head lights ,starter solenoid, ( heater blower motor except
> high, A/C compressor, radio, and your ride height compressors. NOTE. Not
>> the house 12 volt system. } Has to be delivered from the battery by way
> of this 16 gauge wire. A fusible link. In this system. Is to be two wire
>> gauge sizes smaller then the largest wire in the system. As 10 gauge
> wire is our largest. Battery cables aren't included here. The link is
> about 6
>> inches long. And goes from the main 12 volt terminal. To a large
> terminal on the bottom of the horn relay. So. Is that wire just copper?
>> Bob Dunahugh
>> 78 Royale
>
> Bob,
>
> The copper of the wire is standard, but the insulation is not. It is
> special high temperature stuff so the copper can get melted out and not
> start a
> fire. That is after all, the idea.
>
> I have though about replacing it with one of the Gonzo Mama fuses that
> they sell for car audio, but I don't have a good number for what the maximum
> load is on that link under normal circumstances.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is the main fuseable link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overlosd fires ) [message #339969 is a reply to message #339967] |
Mon, 07 January 2019 08:36 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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RF_Burns wrote on Mon, 07 January 2019 07:21Matt,
I don't think you want to replace the fusible link with a big fuse. Most fuses of the mega stereo high amperage type would blow too fast. The other thing is a fusible link is a well sealed, minimum connection device. Most fuses (fuse holders) will corrode and give issues before the usual life of the vehicle is over.
My understanding of the fusible link is that it acts like a very very slow-blow fuse in its characteristics. It can withstand a backyard (and licenced) mechanic Sparky shorting the odd wire and live through it. They are protection against a very high prolonged catastrophic short such as would happen in crash.
I tried looking up the electrical specs one time, but did not find anything. They only seem to be sold on wire gauge size.
Bruce,
Unfortunately you make a good case as usual.
Michigan uses a lot of salt and corrosion here is a big issue.
It was so bad that when ever I approached a vehicle that is have electric issues, I would find an yank on that link. More than a few came apart because of corrosion at the exposed copper at the ends. More than one owner was initially annoyed, but forgave me when the new link fixed his problem.
Reminds Me: My stock of fusible link wire is low.....
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is the main fuseable link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overlosd fires ) [message #339977 is a reply to message #339969] |
Mon, 07 January 2019 09:50 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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This fusible link conversation caused me to research some GM information
(Official original GM service manual) to see what the engineers who built
this thing had in mind. They say, that the fusible links, as used in the GM
MOTORHOME is sized 4 wire gages smaller than the wire that is protecting.
And that when you replace one that has failed, after you correct the cause
of the failure, you should BOTH CRIMP IN COPPER, AS WELL AS SOLDER WITH
RESIN CORE SOLDER, both ends of the repair. Follow that with insulation.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 7:03 AM Matt Colie RF_Burns wrote on Mon, 07 January 2019 07:21[/color]
>> Matt,
>> I don't think you want to replace the fusible link with a big fuse. Most
> fuses of the mega stereo high amperage type would blow too fast. The
>> other thing is a fusible link is a well sealed, minimum connection
> device. Most fuses (fuse holders) will corrode and give issues before the
> usual
>> life of the vehicle is over.
>>
>> My understanding of the fusible link is that it acts like a very very
> slow-blow fuse in its characteristics. It can withstand a backyard (and
>> licenced) mechanic Sparky shorting the odd wire and live through it.
> They are protection against a very high prolonged catastrophic short such as
>> would happen in crash.
>>
>> I tried looking up the electrical specs one time, but did not find
> anything. They only seem to be sold on wire gauge size.
>
> Bruce,
>
> Unfortunately you make a good case as usual.
>
> Michigan uses a lot of salt and corrosion here is a big issue.
>
> It was so bad that when ever I approached a vehicle that is have electric
> issues, I would find an yank on that link. More than a few came apart
> because of corrosion at the exposed copper at the ends. More than one
> owner was initially annoyed, but forgave me when the new link fixed his
> problem.
>
> Reminds Me: My stock of fusible link wire is low.....
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is the main fuseible link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overload fires ) [message #339982 is a reply to message #339976] |
Mon, 07 January 2019 10:47 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
As others have replied, there's nothing special about the fusible link
WIRE. But the insulation IS special. You should be able buy "fusible link
wire" in the proper gauge, by the foot, at 'most any parts store (except
perhaps the chains).
Ken H.
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 10:44 AM Bob Dunahugh wrote:
> I had the original neutral safety switch stop working at a camp ground.
> I picked up a new one . Was made in China. Tried it a couple of times
> after installing it. Perfect.Two days later we went to leave. Turned the
> key. No action. Except for all the smoke coming from the right front. The
> new switch from China shorted out internally. Thank you fusible for saving
> our GMC. Bought a GM switch. Bob Dunahugh
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2019 6:00 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Is the main fusible link wire made up of standard wire? ( It
> protects from overlosd fires )
>
> But it burns. ( GRIN.) Sure was a SHOCK when ours burned. I know that the
> insulation is different in someway. So is the wire material different then
> standard copper wire? For those that don't know what/were it is. From
> what I think I know. ALL 12 volt power for the vehicle. All lights
> including head lights ,starter solenoid, ( heater blower motor except
> high, A/C compressor, radio, and your ride height compressors. NOTE. Not
> the house 12 volt system. } Has to be delivered from the battery by way of
> this 16 gauge wire. A fusible link. In this system. Is to be two wire
> gauge sizes smaller then the largest wire in the system. As 10 gauge wire
> is our largest. Battery cables aren't included here. The link is about 6
> inches long. And goes from the main 12 volt terminal. To a large terminal
> on the bottom of the horn relay. So. Is that wire just copper? Bob
> Dunahugh 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is the main fuseible link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overload fires ) [message #339986 is a reply to message #339982] |
Mon, 07 January 2019 11:55 |
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Tom Newell
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2017
Location: Los Angeles, California
Karma: 0
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So my IH Scout recently had a failed fusible link due to ham fisted ammeter removal by "someone". Anyway, it did not fail at the time of the ham fistedness, but rather later in a Home Depot parking lot (a rather decent place for this sort of problem on a 45 year old vehicle.) To the ideas raised earlier about corrosion (and or degradation due to time), it did not fail in the length of the wire, but rather at the connection point for the bullet connector, with this particular bullet connector appearing to be designed specifically to have a "fuse" effect of its own (speculation).
International used a Delco starter with the same poorly thought out wiring scheme as GM, with a bunch of fiddly wires (and a fusible link) way down at the bottom of a notoriously leaky engine and bewilderingly close to the exhaust manifold (my Ford pickup is so much better with all this stuff safely up on the inner fender at the solenoid). Additionally, Scouts have a poorly designed and dangerous wire setup in general, and time has not improved this circumstance. And guess how easy it is to figure out the specifications of an old International fusible link.
The convergence of circumstances forced me to complete rather a lot of research on fusible links and the construction of same. There are very forceful and official sources stating that the fusible links should be:
1. absolutely not soldered
2. absolutely soldered
3. about 8.5 inches long
4. exactly the same length as the old one
5. etc., etc...
So to avoid continuing to beat myself about the head and shoulders, it was time to find an actual modern solution. Initially much more gibberish, until I finally found this:
https://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuses/automotive-passenger-car/high-current-fuses/298.aspx
These are specifically specified as a "slow blow" fuse for battery and alternator protection, and snazzy mounts are available for retrofit applications. Also, this page has links to pages and pages of information that seem to teach everything that needs to be known about automotive fuses. So I was on the right track.
Then over Christmas, I installed an AMP Research Power Step (highly recommended, though many $) on my Dad's brand spanking new 2019 GMC 2500. During the course of this installation, I became aware of how modern (or current, if you prefer) GM engineers handle fusible linkage. What they do is have very short positive battery cable (4 or 6 inches maybe) that goes a bus that clips to the top of the battery. This bus cleverly and conveniently includes a snazzy jump-start point, and also (apropos to this discussion) a series of fused connections branded as "Littelfuse" and identical in construction appearance to the "Mega fuse" items covered in the above link. There are two 60 amp connections of the connection plug variety, and several stud connections ranging from (I think) 100 amp up to 400 amp (!). The starter is on the 250 amp stud (I think); the 400 amp is open (winch or plow, maybe; this truck does have the snow plow package). Conveniently, I was able to use an open 125 amp stud to feed to power step items (there is an inline 30 amp fuse in that harness; I certainly do not want 125 amps blasting through that equipment.)
So my take-away is that, if I possibly can, I am going to track down one of the battery top bus thingys to retrofit to all my old stuff (if it is at all possible/practical). If the thingy is not a reasonable retrofit, I am going to get the Mega fuses and make my own setup.
And having said all that, I currently have an old fusible link of somewhat questionable providence down on the starter of my Scout. So it goes...
Tom Newell
San Pedro, California
Proud Citizen of
Los Angeles, California
Founded 1781 as
El Pueblo de la Reyna de los Angeles,
Alta California
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is the main fuseable link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overlosd fires ) [message #339993 is a reply to message #339959] |
Mon, 07 January 2019 12:44 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261
Registered: January 2017
Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I've seen this fuseable link in a few vehicles. Luckily, I have not had one fail.
That link is purposefully placed to protect the circuit from a BAD short circuit that would burn down the vehicle if it failed to wire only.
You should never see this fail under normal conditions.l
My understanding is the fuseable link is actually fusewire, not wire, that is protected with a insulation like cover that makes it look like
a regular wire. I believe the insulation is slight larger in diameter than the wires around it, but you really have to be looking for it to notice
it and even then you might over look it.
I have known mechanics that replaced failed fuseable links with a wire and an actual fuse. I don't know if this was because they are difficult to find or it was just easier to use wire and a fuse.
The Fuseable links I have seen were from 9 inches to 18 inches long. The down side is because this is fuse link material, that fault can be anywhere along the length of the fuseable link. And if the fuseable link failed, even if you could repair it, it would not be a good idea to reuse that same piece of fuseable link because the high current and temperature, which is what initially makes the link fail, can create weak spots along the fuseable link length. If it fails, it needs to be entirely replaced.
Not really sure why the manufacturers began using fuseable link other than the wiring harness design pretty much never meant to see a problem except in extreme emergencies, the type of problem that if you had this emergency, the car would be immobile anyway.
In short, it is considered a wire and attached as such but it is intent to prevent a very bad, very rare short circuit from becoming a major fire.
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is the main fuseible link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overload fires ) [message #340004 is a reply to message #339976] |
Tue, 08 January 2019 11:39 |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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O Riley's has a 6 inch fusible link that fits our 78 GMC. Bob Dunahugh
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 9:44 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: RE: Is the main fuseible link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overload fires )
I had the original neutral safety switch stop working at a camp ground. I picked up a new one . Was made in China. Tried it a couple of times after installing it. Perfect.Two days later we went to leave. Turned the key. No action. Except for all the smoke coming from the right front. The new switch from China shorted out internally. Thank you fusible for saving our GMC. Bought a GM switch. Bob Dunahugh
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2019 6:00 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Is the main fusible link wire made up of standard wire? ( It protects from overlosd fires )
But it burns. ( GRIN.) Sure was a SHOCK when ours burned. I know that the insulation is different in someway. So is the wire material different then standard copper wire? For those that don't know what/were it is. From what I think I know. ALL 12 volt power for the vehicle. All lights including head lights ,starter solenoid, ( heater blower motor except high, A/C compressor, radio, and your ride height compressors. NOTE. Not the house 12 volt system. } Has to be delivered from the battery by way of this 16 gauge wire. A fusible link. In this system. Is to be two wire gauge sizes smaller then the largest wire in the system. As 10 gauge wire is our largest. Battery cables aren't included here. The link is about 6 inches long. And goes from the main 12 volt terminal. To a large terminal on the bottom of the horn relay. So. Is that wire just copper? Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
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