Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] High winds in the 403, and 455 oil pans.
| [GMCnet] High winds in the 403, and 455 oil pans. [message #336726] |
Tue, 04 September 2018 12:18  |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
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Most owners will never even think of this. Or even know, or care. SURPRISE. I do, and have. These high winds carry the oil from the main, rod, and cam bearings. To lube the cam shaft lobes, cam chain, and the distributor shaft bearings. Then to cool the pistons. Our oil pans are very deep. As to keep the oil in the pan. From being picked up like the water on top of the waves on the ocean. We have 2 different situation going on inside our pan. 1 We have an area in our pans at the front that keep suspended oil close to the crank. That can help cause oil to stay in suspention in the crankshaft area. 2 Then our oil pans have a windage baffle on the down wind side wall of the oil pan. ( But not a windage tray )To keep oil from being blown up the side of the pan wall. And getting too much more excess oil splash in suspention to cool, and lube internal moving components. Again more reasons that GM didn't put in high volume oil pumps. Of give the main/rod bearings more clearance. To start with.
Many years ago. In an attempt to get more knowledge of the dynamics going on in the oil pan/crankcase. I built some engines that had Lexan panels built into them. Even put lights in there to improve visibility.To be able to see what was happening in the engine while in operation. Promise. Even at normal idle. The amount of oil in suspention is huge. I have one engine that it's idle is at 2200 rpm's. At 7 to 8000 RPM's It's crazy. But that's another story. The reasons that I did this. Was to get a better understanding of lubrication at low. And in the very high RPM ranges. Plus. Where can I find a 1/4th of a ft pound of torque,or a pony. I'm not into thinking, or assuming things. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale.
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| Re: [GMCnet] High winds in the 403, and 455 oil pans. [message #336752 is a reply to message #336726] |
Wed, 05 September 2018 14:29  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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If you were to supress it, how long would the engine live? Would it make a long term difference?
johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] High winds in the 403, and 455 oil pans. [message #336758 is a reply to message #336726] |
Wed, 05 September 2018 14:54 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:18 AM Bob Dunahugh wrote:
> Most owners will never even think of this. Or even know, or care.
> SURPRISE. I do, and have. These high winds carry the oil from the main,
> rod, and cam bearings. To lube the cam shaft lobes, cam chain, and the
> distributor shaft bearings. Then to cool the pistons. Our oil pans are very
> deep. As to keep the oil in the pan. From being picked up like the water
> on top of the waves on the ocean. We have 2 different situation going on
> inside our pan. 1 We have an area in our pans at the front that keep
> suspended oil close to the crank. That can help cause oil to stay in
> suspention in the crankshaft area. 2 Then our oil pans have a windage
> baffle on the down wind side wall of the oil pan. ( But not a windage tray
> )To keep oil from being blown up the side of the pan wall. And getting too
> much more excess oil splash in suspention to cool, and lube internal moving
> components. Again more reasons that GM didn't put in high volume oil pumps.
> Of give the main/rod bearings more clearance. To start with.
> Many years ago. In an attempt to get more knowledge of the dynamics
> going on in the oil pan/crankcase. I built some engines that had Lexan
> panels built into them. Even put lights in there to improve visibility.To
> be able to see what was happening in the engine while in operation.
> Promise. Even at normal idle. The amount of oil in suspention is huge. I
> have one engine that it's idle is at 2200 rpm's. At 7 to 8000 RPM's It's
> crazy. But that's another story. The reasons that I did this. Was to get a
> better understanding of lubrication at low. And in the very high RPM
> ranges. Plus. Where can I find a 1/4th of a ft pound of torque,or a pony.
> I'm not into thinking, or assuming things. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
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www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] High winds in the 403, and 455 oil pans. [message #336764 is a reply to message #336726] |
Wed, 05 September 2018 16:17 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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BobDunahugh wrote on Tue, 04 September 2018 13:18<snip>
These high winds carry the oil from the main, rod, and cam bearings.
To lube the cam shaft lobes, cam chain, and the distributor shaft bearings.
Nope, The cam lobes are oiled by the run back from the lash adjusters. The timing chain has an oil jet in the front of the right hand oil gallery and the distributor is lubricated by another jet in the rear of the the left gallery. If you run the pump with the distributor out, you can see this one. (If someone needs to get that plug out, I have a special tool.)
Quote:The to cool the pistons.
The Olds engines don't seem to have a specific feature to cool pistons and oil the bores, but the rod side clearance is larger than many other engines and that can do just as well.
I only recently reassembled a 455 (461) and have recently had several apart.
Nearly 50 years ago we tried to do an experiment similar to what Bob did with only a little more success. We had that success because of the professors that were mentoring us and the equipment available. That included a DC drive dynamometer, a variable speed pumps for to control the amount of lubricating oil we had to deal with and high speed (for the day) photographic equipment.
Our big eye opener was the push rods. They don't stay anything like straight during operation.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] High winds in the 403, and 455 oil pans. [message #336780 is a reply to message #336726] |
Thu, 06 September 2018 00:14 |
BobDunahugh
Messages: 2465
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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Johnny. What do you mean, supress it. The wind in the crankcase? The wind can't be controlled. But it's affect as to having too much oil that's in suspention. So the baffle helps to keep the suspended oil under some control. Matt. I know about the orifice for the chain. Forgot the rear one. But the suspened oil does contribute to lubrication. As to the cam lobes. Yapp. Grin. The oil that operates the internal lifter piston. That oil travel up the inside of the push rods. Lubing the rocker arm pivot. And the valve guides. Then flows along the lower valley of the head. That's next to the lower edge of the valve cover. This oil then travels to the oil pan by way of the drain holes in the head, and block. These passages are the ones that Mendillo says need to be enlarge at rebuild. Thus the cam lobe lube is mostly spray. And what leaks out between the lifter, and the lifter bore. Bob Dunahugh
________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 12:18 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: High winds in the 403, and 455 oil pans.
Most owners will never even think of this. Or even know, or care. SURPRISE. I do, and have. These high winds carry the oil from the main, rod, and cam bearings. To lube the cam shaft lobes, cam chain, and the distributor shaft bearings. Then to cool the pistons. Our oil pans are very deep. As to keep the oil in the pan. From being picked up like the water on top of the waves on the ocean. We have 2 different situation going on inside our pan. 1 We have an area in our pans at the front that keep suspended oil close to the crank. That can help cause oil to stay in suspention in the crankshaft area. 2 Then our oil pans have a windage baffle on the down wind side wall of the oil pan. ( But not a windage tray )To keep oil from being blown up the side of the pan wall. And getting too much more excess oil splash in suspention to cool, and lube internal moving components. Again more reasons that GM didn't put in high volume oil pumps. Of give the main/rod bearings more clearance. To start with.
Many years ago. In an attempt to get more knowledge of the dynamics going on in the oil pan/crankcase. I built some engines that had Lexan panels built into them. Even put lights in there to improve visibility.To be able to see what was happening in the engine while in operation. Promise. Even at normal idle. The amount of oil in suspention is huge. I have one engine that it's idle is at 2200 rpm's. At 7 to 8000 RPM's It's crazy. But that's another story. The reasons that I did this. Was to get a better understanding of lubrication at low. And in the very high RPM ranges. Plus. Where can I find a 1/4th of a ft pound of torque,or a pony. I'm not into thinking, or assuming things. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale.
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| Re: [GMCnet] High winds in the 403, and 455 oil pans. [message #336788 is a reply to message #336726] |
Thu, 06 September 2018 08:57 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I mean supress the fog of droplets. It's doable, though since it pretty much isn't done I figure it needs to be there. Which is why I asked an Engine Person (yourself).
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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