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| [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335066] |
Fri, 13 July 2018 16:34  |
Tiago Soromenho
Messages: 3
Registered: July 2018
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Hi everyone!
I’ve been following the great tips, advice, and support of this community since first getting interested in GMC Motorhomes. After a while I took the jump and started looking for one. Not too long after, a 77 Palm Beach was avail just 2hrs up from Austin (home base) and after checking it out, my wife and I decided to bring it home.
The trip was uneventful, which a detour up by my in-laws in Mineola, TX, where we spent our first (and so far only) night in it, connected to shore power. The drive home, all 200 miles of it, went without any issue, other than the coach wouldn’t start without using the Boost button.
Today, I figured i’f get the likely culprit, a 5year old Walmart battery replaced, so up at 6am to be at the Walmart on Ben White Blvd, just a couple miles from where I live, for a battery change.
And this is the part where I need the wisdom of the GMCMH collective:
At Walmart, the guy replaces the battery but attaches the leads incorrectly, red where it should have been black, and same in other terminal. After noticing some sparks he realizes the mistake and fixes the issue.
Up I go on the driver seat, and where there was no cranking power, now there is. But the engine doesn’t start. It just cranks, but no ignition.
I immediately call Don Virta, the closest GMC expert / mechanic according to the black list, and he’s been graciously spending most of the morning and afternoon taking my my calls and going through each system that he can think has been affected.
We checked the distributor, and replaced the distributor controller, after a run to AutoZone.
Checked all the fuses I could find / see (under the front passenger side front panel, and in the glove box.
Also checked the after-market EFI and fuses (under passenger seat) electrically all looks good, has voltage (I have a multi-meter)
Any ideas, or anyone in the area that wants a bit of Friday mystery solving? Feel free to swing by if you have any ideas, call me at the number below. Trying very hard not to leave the coach unattended all night here, until Don can possibly come down in person...
Thanks for any help, and hello to all!
-Tiago
202-425-5201
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335071 is a reply to message #335066] |
Fri, 13 July 2018 17:18  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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What an AWFUL catastrophe! Especially with the EFI which may be affected
seriously. Most important question at this point: Is Walmart willingly
accepting responsibility? If so, MAYBE you can find a auto electrician to
take over. If not, then you probably have a legal case against Walmart for
the incompetence of their employee.
Good luck finding all the possible damage; even as a 20 yr GMC owner and
EE, I'd hate to be in your shoes right now. If you don't have a good
wiring diagram, contact my son, Alan, at (four seven eight) 320 fifty-nine
seventy-four. He sells oversized drawings for all GMC years; they're
actually large enough to read (a write on).
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, Troy-Bilt APU, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 5:54 PM Tiago Soromenho
wrote:
> Hi everyone!
>
> I’ve been following the great tips, advice, and support of this community
> since first getting interested in GMC Motorhomes. After a while I took the
> jump and started looking for one. Not too long after, a 77 Palm Beach was
> avail just 2hrs up from Austin (home base) and after checking it out, my
> wife and I decided to bring it home.
>
> The trip was uneventful, which a detour up by my in-laws in Mineola, TX,
> where we spent our first (and so far only) night in it, connected to shore
> power. The drive home, all 200 miles of it, went without any issue, other
> than the coach wouldn’t start without using the Boost button.
>
> Today, I figured i’f get the likely culprit, a 5year old Walmart battery
> replaced, so up at 6am to be at the Walmart on Ben White Blvd, just a
> couple miles from where I live, for a battery change.
>
> And this is the part where I need the wisdom of the GMCMH collective:
>
> At Walmart, the guy replaces the battery but attaches the leads
> incorrectly, red where it should have been black, and same in other
> terminal. After noticing some sparks he realizes the mistake and fixes the
> issue.
>
> Up I go on the driver seat, and where there was no cranking power, now
> there is. But the engine doesn’t start. It just cranks, but no ignition.
>
> I immediately call Don Virta, the closest GMC expert / mechanic according
> to the black list, and he’s been graciously spending most of the morning
> and afternoon taking my my calls and going through each system that he can
> think has been affected.
>
> We checked the distributor, and replaced the distributor controller, after
> a run to AutoZone.
>
> Checked all the fuses I could find / see (under the front passenger side
> front panel, and in the glove box.
>
> Also checked the after-market EFI and fuses (under passenger seat)
> electrically all looks good, has voltage (I have a multi-meter)
>
> Any ideas, or anyone in the area that wants a bit of Friday mystery
> solving? Feel free to swing by if you have any ideas, call me at the number
> below. Trying very hard not to leave the coach unattended all night here,
> until Don can possibly come down in person...
>
> Thanks for any help, and hello to all!
>
> -Tiago
> 202-425-5201
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335075 is a reply to message #335066] |
Fri, 13 July 2018 18:10 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Tiago,
Welcome to the group, family, cult, asylum......
You got KenH's attention and that is a good start.
Let's start with:
Compression, Spark and Fuel.
It was running, so let's not chase compression.
Pull a plug boot off and put a screwdriver (keep your fingers away from the blade) in it and crank. There should be a visible spark every other turn. If there is, then the problem is fuel and I can't help you there.
Just so you know, most automotive electronics have "protective diodes" to prevent damage in the case of reverse polarity. Problem: They do this by blowing fuses and sometimes little input diodes. The board can be salvaged, but probably not in a Walmart parking lot.
There is also a better than even chance that the Walmart Bozotech also fried the isolator and/or the alternator. Isolators usually blow open, but the diode bridge in the alternator is anybody's guess. Both should be checked out.
The next international is in Amana, and at over a thousand miles for you, that might be tough, but you have lots of locals to hook up with. Just hang around here. As you are working E-mail and not the forum, you can't load a sigfile, but please try to remember to to put in any posting that you have a 77 Palm Beach and live in Austin. That will save us all a lot of confusion.
Well, you found your way here, and that is a very good thing. You will get the help you need here and the answers will be correct. You may not know it, but you just collected about a couple thousand brand new old friends. The only way to annoy these people is to not pay attention to what they offer. It is an amazing community. These are all supportive and helping people. The only other community like this that I know of is that of the watermen that are my world, so I like to welcome new owners here as one would be welcomed there. So,
May the Good Lord Bless this coach and all those that set forth within her.
Welcome Tiago
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335076 is a reply to message #335075] |
Fri, 13 July 2018 18:29 |
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Anonymous
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All kinds of bad things can happen when the battery terminals are reversed. That is a serious mistake.
Just reconnecting them back properly probably won’t “fix” things.
If the Walmart employee did this then Walmart is liable. You should talk to the manager and get him to agree that you can take it to an automobile electric mechanic to get things checked out. AND to agree to do this at Walmart’s expense and any needed repairs at their expense.
If he won’t agree to this just ask if he would rather talk to your attorney.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Jul 13, 2018, at 5:10 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
> Tiago,
>
> Welcome to the group, family, cult, asylum......
>
> You got KenH's attention and that is a good start.
>
> Let's start with:
> Compression, Spark and Fuel.
> It was running, so let's not chase compression.
> Pull a plug boot off and put a screwdriver (keep your fingers away from the blade) in it and crank. There should be a visible spark every other turn.
> If there is, then the problem is fuel and I can't help you there.
>
> Just so you know, most automotive electronics have "protective diodes" to prevent damage in the case of reverse polarity. Problem: They do this by
> blowing fuses and sometimes little input diodes. The board can be salvaged, but probably not in a Walmart parking lot.
>
> There is also a better than even chance that the Walmart Bozotech also fried the isolator and/or the alternator. Isolators usually blow open, but the
> diode bridge in the alternator is anybody's guess. Both should be checked out.
>
> The next international is in Amana, and at over a thousand miles for you, that might be tough, but you have lots of locals to hook up with. Just hang
> around here. As you are working E-mail and not the forum, you can't load a sigfile, but please try to remember to to put in any posting that you have
> a 77 Palm Beach and live in Austin. That will save us all a lot of confusion.
>
> Well, you found your way here, and that is a very good thing. You will get the help you need here and the answers will be correct. You may not know
> it, but you just collected about a couple thousand brand new old friends. The only way to annoy these people is to not pay attention to what they
> offer. It is an amazing community. These are all supportive and helping people. The only other community like this that I know of is that of the
> watermen that are my world, so I like to welcome new owners here as one would be welcomed there. So,
>
> May the Good Lord Bless this coach and all those that set forth within her.
>
> Welcome Tiago
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335095 is a reply to message #335066] |
Sat, 14 July 2018 06:19 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I am sitting here trying to remotely analyze what could have gotten fried.
I am thinking that the isolator should have blocked any reverse voltage going to the alternator on the charging lead, but reverse voltage could have come in on the start and voltage feed back lines. That said the engine should still start with a bad alternator so I would ignore that for now.
What else. Well Matt suggested Ignition. I think that is where I would look next. The ignition module is a possibility. Matt's suggestion of cranking with a screwdriver on a plug wire looking for spark is what I would do. OR go to Harbor Freight and get an inline spark checker for around $5.00 and use it. If there is spark, get standby fire extinguisher. Then I would remove the air cleaner lid and pour some gas down the throat of the throttle body. Replace the lid and try cranking. If it fires and runs briefly them we can assume that the problem is not ignition but fuel delivery.
At this point I, like Matt, have to drop out because I know nothing about the different FI systems used on a GMC. Call Jim K or Randy Van Winkle, or Ken Henderson for additional advise on FI. There also several others here on the net with good FI background.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335098 is a reply to message #335066] |
Sat, 14 July 2018 07:09 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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First - first - first get the WalMart manager and make him aware of what has happened, with the 'tech' present. No argument now over what caused the problem. THEN go till you fix it. Sparks, air, and gas. It would be hard to lose the air, check the soparks and fuel per the above posts and determine the problem. Then let WalMart pick up the tab.
My experience has been, firm politeness gets a lot more done than shouting and threatening. The kery here in that the manager accepts the it was hooked incorrectly. I'm with the others - if there are sparks, Randy Van W is your 'expert' and if he determines something is fried they replace it.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335099 is a reply to message #335066] |
Sat, 14 July 2018 07:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Second and I just thought of this, check every fuse in the coach. A lot of automotive electronics are fitted with a back - biased diode on the input to preclude damage when it's hooked backwards. The diode shorts the reversed input and takes out the fuse - hopefully before the electronics get fried. Works sometimes, not sometimes. If it drew sparks, current flowed backwards somewhere. You get to find where.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335101 is a reply to message #335090] |
Sat, 14 July 2018 08:07 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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jimk wrote on Fri, 13 July 2018 22:58I have given Tiago Rady Vanwikle's phone # to aquire help.
He has the Howell based EFI and Randy is familier with it.
I spent time with Tiago on the phone yesterday. We checked the fuel pump and it was able to run but the ECM was not turning it on. Found a fuse associated with the fuel injection system that was blown. Put another in and it immediately blew. Tried again and it held stable. I'm concerned that there may still be a short somewhere that caused that fuse to blow the second time. Continued to trace - all voltages to the ECM as well as the distributor were good. Tiago opened up the ECM and found that some captured smoke had been released. One of the 12v leads coming into the ECM had fried. He tried to solder it back but released more smoke when he hooked up the connectors. He is working with a local Blacklist person who has a couple of ECMs.
Got a late night text (just now reading) that he put the new ECM in and it started up as if nothing was wrong.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335125 is a reply to message #335109] |
Sat, 14 July 2018 12:44 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Randy,
Again , thank you for your asssistance.
Where else are you going to get this type of tech help.
You'll not get it from Rock Auto.
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 7:14 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> As far as I'm concerned, the new ECM is courtesy of WalMart.
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335154 is a reply to message #335101] |
Sun, 15 July 2018 01:27 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Great News Randy.
Ken B.
rvanwin wrote on Sat, 14 July 2018 08:07jimk wrote on Fri, 13 July 2018 22:58I have given Tiago Rady Vanwikle's phone # to aquire help.
He has the Howell based EFI and Randy is familier with it.
I spent time with Tiago on the phone yesterday. We checked the fuel pump and it was able to run but the ECM was not turning it on. Found a fuse associated with the fuel injection system that was blown. Put another in and it immediately blew. Tried again and it held stable. I'm concerned that there may still be a short somewhere that caused that fuse to blow the second time. Continued to trace - all voltages to the ECM as well as the distributor were good. Tiago opened up the ECM and found that some captured smoke had been released. One of the 12v leads coming into the ECM had fried. He tried to solder it back but released more smoke when he hooked up the connectors. He is working with a local Blacklist person who has a couple of ECMs.
Got a late night text (just now reading) that he put the new ECM in and it started up as if nothing was wrong.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335322 is a reply to message #335066] |
Tue, 17 July 2018 17:41 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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All vehicles built since about 1982 have ECMS. Most all will be severely damaged by reverse polarity connection. The battery installers should be schooled on this in their "training". Their fault for sure. In stock configuration it's harder to mess this up due to cable lengths and colors but if in doubt they should have labeled. Even non ECM vehicles can be damaged by reverse polarity.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] New to GMC Motorhome ownership ... and already in first trial! [message #335324 is a reply to message #335322] |
Tue, 17 July 2018 17:55 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Like most shops, they get what they can.
I was at a new car dealership and they saw my ASE Certified patch on my
shirt, so they offered me a job.
They were going to offer me a lot as they are having a hard time.
If they found out I'm 75, they might change their mind.
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 3:41 PM, John R. Lebetski
wrote:
> All vehicles built since about 1982 have ECMS. Most all will be severely
> damaged by reverse polarity connection. The battery installers should be
> schooled on this in their "training". Their fault for sure. In stock
> configuration it's harder to mess this up due to cable lengths and colors
> but if
> in doubt they should have labeled. Even non ECM vehicles can be damaged by
> reverse polarity.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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