Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] My transmission leak...
| [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333761] |
Wed, 20 June 2018 18:50  |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Johnny's posts prompted me to post about the transmission leak that I've been chasing for a while - it's been getting progressively worse over time...
I initially had a small leak from the speedometer drive - I didn't think that it was that bad, but I replaced the seal and O-ring and it seemed OK. It might still be dripping slowly...
I pulled the pan a few weeks ago and replaced an old cork gasket that appeared like it was weeping. I installed a WIX rubber pan gasket and also noticed my Ragusa pan had been painted in the past. The leak continues and may be getting slightly worse... Yesterday I tightened the chain cover bolts slightly - there was evidence of leakage there as well.
I've been having a very hard time getting it to leak in my sloped driveway - but today I covered the driver's side with baby powder and drove it back and forth for a while and eventually got a drop! The drops were on the transmission to final drive bolts - very near the dipstick. The dipstick area has always appeared reasonably dry.
I'll pull the dipstick and use RTV (per Jim K.'s previous posts - especially related to "you can waste a lot of time"). I've not seen any discussion regarding leakage from the governor cover or the bolts connecting to the final drive. So I'm thinking that the dipstick is still my main unknown (since I haven't pulled it yet)...
So - as long as the torque convertor is relatively full, how much trans fluid will come out of the dipstick tube when I pull it? Any other common leakage spots near that area (final drive mounting bolts near the dipstick)?
I've wasted a lot of time...
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333776 is a reply to message #333774] |
Wed, 20 June 2018 22:19  |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I don't think ANY fluid will leak out when you remove the dipstick tube. My recollection is that it is well above the fluid level. a well fitting O-ring should fix the leak if it is coming from there. I guess it won't hurt to back it up with some RTV, but it should not be necessary.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333778 is a reply to message #333776] |
Wed, 20 June 2018 22:56 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks for that.
I've never seen any fluid coming from the base of the dipstick tube - but the drips I witnessed today were very close to that spot (but appear to be coming from higher up than where the dipstick tube enters the case). I figured - it can't hurt to seal it up better. I just want it to slow down!
After 20 min of driving, the pan is wet. You'd think I'd be able to pinpoint the source, but so far - no luck... I've got more powder in that area now - so I'll try to get it to drip again tomorrow.
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Jun 20, 2018, at 8:19 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
>
> I don't think ANY fluid will leak out when you remove the dipstick tube. My recollection is that it is well above the fluid level. a well fitting
> O-ring should fix the leak if it is coming from there. I guess it won't hurt to back it up with some RTV, but it should not be necessary.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333782 is a reply to message #333779] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 00:12 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Look at the trans from the top a there are times when you'll see some leaks.
Keep in mind that the dip tube will leak more when it sits for few days as
the convertor will bleed down and flood the trans.
I have neer seen the leak at the gov.
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Rob wrote:
> Thanks - I've looked at your pictures early on, but I can't see any sign
> of leaking up there!
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>
>> On Jun 20, 2018, at 8:00 PM, Larry wrote:
>>
>> l had some of the same wet symptoms. Chased them for a couple of years
> till I finally found the leak in a very unusual place. Check these pics.
>> Maybe...maybe not.
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/transmission-leak/
> p63991-odd-trans-leak.html
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/transmission-leak/p64051-img-1140.html
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/transmission-leak/
> p63994-odd-trans-leak.html
>> --
>> Larry
>> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
>> Menomonie, WI.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333792 is a reply to message #333782] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 08:57 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks.
It seems to only be leaking when “moving” - I’ve had a hard time getting it to leak when I can see where it might be coming from. It does seem lower than the governor cover.
I’m still suspicious of the dipstick to case seal - but it always looks fairly dry there.
I’m hoping I can make it drip again today in my “controlled” environment...
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Jun 20, 2018, at 10:12 PM, Jim Kanomata wrote:
>
> Look at the trans from the top a there are times when you'll see some leaks.
> Keep in mind that the dip tube will leak more when it sits for few days as
> the convertor will bleed down and flood the trans.
> I have neer seen the leak at the gov.
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333794 is a reply to message #333788] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 09:04 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bruce Hart wrote on Thu, 21 June 2018 06:01Instead of an "o"ring to seal you can try this grommet.
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NDP7355004
Coat the grommet with a sealant under the lip and coat the dipstick tube
with sealant around the stop on dipstick tube.
I looked at the seal on the NAPA site. I can not figure out how it would be used to replace the O-ring. I guess I would have to order one and see it for my self .
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333796 is a reply to message #333780] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 09:01 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks. Yes - I’ve been watching the weep hole for a while and have never seen anything emerge from there (I thought that I should have mentioned watching it, shortly after I sent my original post). I think that’s good news - hopefully means that seal is OK...
The source seems higher than the weep hole...
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Jun 20, 2018, at 9:56 PM, Armand Minnie wrote:
>
> There is a weep hole that is right next to the dipstick tube. If the seal between the final drive and the transmission is leaking it will come out of
> that hole. Happened to me.
> --
> Armand Minnie
> Marana, AZ
> '76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
> http://www.minniebiz.com
> http://www.gmcws.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333797 is a reply to message #333761] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 11:38 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I was able to get the leak to occur again this morning - it does not appear to be from where the dipstick enters the case OR the nearby weep hole.
It appears to be originating from the area around the upper bolt (transmission to final housing), just below the governor and towards the front (from the base of the speedometer drive port). I can't see any fluid from above the bolts (which would be below the governor housing?). But it's very hard to see in that area - I've tried with a light and mirror, but don't see much.
This link is a pic of the area:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JpHZN7dmvUxVUaDe7
This pic has the bolt circled where I first see the fluid and a line showing the path the fluid takes to head down and out:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cDBgDvPtKs7ykm2X9
Does the upper bolt have fluid behind it? Does the governor housing have a seal at the base of it - near the case (or is that just one casting)?
I actually tried to contact Manny last week - but I was told he's on a cruise! Good for him - that might be my next step... But I've got a GMC trip in less than a week and I'd love to slow this down...
Thanks in advance for any input...
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Jun 20, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Rob wrote:
>
> Johnny's posts prompted me to post about the transmission leak that I've been chasing for a while - it's been getting progressively worse over time...
>
> I initially had a small leak from the speedometer drive - I didn't think that it was that bad, but I replaced the seal and O-ring and it seemed OK. It might still be dripping slowly...
>
> I pulled the pan a few weeks ago and replaced an old cork gasket that appeared like it was weeping. I installed a WIX rubber pan gasket and also noticed my Ragusa pan had been painted in the past. The leak continues and may be getting slightly worse... Yesterday I tightened the chain cover bolts slightly - there was evidence of leakage there as well.
>
> I've been having a very hard time getting it to leak in my sloped driveway - but today I covered the driver's side with baby powder and drove it back and forth for a while and eventually got a drop! The drops were on the transmission to final drive bolts - very near the dipstick. The dipstick area has always appeared reasonably dry.
>
> I'll pull the dipstick and use RTV (per Jim K.'s previous posts - especially related to "you can waste a lot of time"). I've not seen any discussion regarding leakage from the governor cover or the bolts connecting to the final drive. So I'm thinking that the dipstick is still my main unknown (since I haven't pulled it yet)...
>
> So - as long as the torque convertor is relatively full, how much trans fluid will come out of the dipstick tube when I pull it? Any other common leakage spots near that area (final drive mounting bolts near the dipstick)?
>
> I've wasted a lot of time...
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333799 is a reply to message #333797] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 12:36 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Rob,
Is it an optical illusion, my OLD eyes, or an actual crack in your case,
basically along the red line in your second photo?
Ken H.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:38 PM Rob wrote:
> I was able to get the leak to occur again this morning - it does not
> appear to be from where the dipstick enters the case OR the nearby weep
> hole.
>
> It appears to be originating from the area around the upper bolt
> (transmission to final housing), just below the governor and towards the
> front (from the base of the speedometer drive port). I can't see any fluid
> from above the bolts (which would be below the governor housing?). But it's
> very hard to see in that area - I've tried with a light and mirror, but
> don't see much.
>
> This link is a pic of the area:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/JpHZN7dmvUxVUaDe7
>
> This pic has the bolt circled where I first see the fluid and a line
> showing the path the fluid takes to head down and out:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/cDBgDvPtKs7ykm2X9
>
> Does the upper bolt have fluid behind it? Does the governor housing have a
> seal at the base of it - near the case (or is that just one casting)?
>
> I actually tried to contact Manny last week - but I was told he's on a
> cruise! Good for him - that might be my next step... But I've got a GMC
> trip in less than a week and I'd love to slow this down...
>
> Thanks in advance for any input...
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>
>> On Jun 20, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Rob wrote:
>>
>> Johnny's posts prompted me to post about the transmission leak that I've
> been chasing for a while - it's been getting progressively worse over
> time...
>>
>> I initially had a small leak from the speedometer drive - I didn't think
> that it was that bad, but I replaced the seal and O-ring and it seemed OK.
> It might still be dripping slowly...
>>
>> I pulled the pan a few weeks ago and replaced an old cork gasket that
> appeared like it was weeping. I installed a WIX rubber pan gasket and also
> noticed my Ragusa pan had been painted in the past. The leak continues and
> may be getting slightly worse... Yesterday I tightened the chain cover
> bolts slightly - there was evidence of leakage there as well.
>>
>> I've been having a very hard time getting it to leak in my sloped
> driveway - but today I covered the driver's side with baby powder and drove
> it back and forth for a while and eventually got a drop! The drops were on
> the transmission to final drive bolts - very near the dipstick. The
> dipstick area has always appeared reasonably dry.
>>
>> I'll pull the dipstick and use RTV (per Jim K.'s previous posts -
> especially related to "you can waste a lot of time"). I've not seen any
> discussion regarding leakage from the governor cover or the bolts
> connecting to the final drive. So I'm thinking that the dipstick is still
> my main unknown (since I haven't pulled it yet)...
>>
>> So - as long as the torque convertor is relatively full, how much trans
> fluid will come out of the dipstick tube when I pull it? Any other common
> leakage spots near that area (final drive mounting bolts near the dipstick)?
>>
>> I've wasted a lot of time...
>>
>> Rob
>> Victoria, BC
>> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333800 is a reply to message #333799] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 12:52 |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
To my a bit younger eyes, that looks to be a crack as Ken said. Any way to spray that area with brake cleaner and a hit it with a wire brush? That would at least clean it up more for a better inspection. There may be a lot of crud sticking to that area. If it is indeed cracked, I wonder if putting some JB weld in there may stop it up better until you can properly address it.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333801 is a reply to message #333799] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 12:57 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It may be a crack - but it may also just be the "line" that the ATF is creating in all the baby powder in that area! Now that I know the area of the leak - I'll clean it up and look for a crack.
I've been reading the Maintenance Manual and studying pics in the transmission chapter. I think the bolt that is the first place I see fluid is BOLT "A", it then runs down the case towards BOLT "B" and BOLT "E".
The manual mentions soaking the gasket between the trans and final drive in ATF before assembly - so I'm assuming there is some ATF on both sides of the gasket. Last night I put a short socket drive on "B" and "E" and they weren't loose...
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:36 AM, Ken Henderson wrote:
>
> Rob,
>
> Is it an optical illusion, my OLD eyes, or an actual crack in your case,
> basically along the red line in your second photo?
>
> Ken H.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333802 is a reply to message #333801] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 13:22 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I don't think there is a crack, here's a pic after being cleaned up:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mmxXnEbFNh75LkgBA
I put a wrench on BOLT "A" and it was tight, but not very. Manual said 25 ft-lbs - this may have been 10? I couldn't easily get a socket on there - so it's now "tight is tight enough".
I'll try to get it out for a test run and see if it's any better. But I've kind of used up the majority of my optimism on my previous attempts...
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:57 AM, Rob wrote:
>
> It may be a crack - but it may also just be the "line" that the ATF is creating in all the baby powder in that area! Now that I know the area of the leak - I'll clean it up and look for a crack.
>
> I've been reading the Maintenance Manual and studying pics in the transmission chapter. I think the bolt that is the first place I see fluid is BOLT "A", it then runs down the case towards BOLT "B" and BOLT "E".
>
> The manual mentions soaking the gasket between the trans and final drive in ATF before assembly - so I'm assuming there is some ATF on both sides of the gasket. Last night I put a short socket drive on "B" and "E" and they weren't loose...
>
> Rob
> Victoria, BC
> 76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333803 is a reply to message #333800] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 13:33 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks for the reply - this is a cleaned up pic:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mmxXnEbFNh75LkgBA
I think the case is OK. Just way too much baby powder! But it helped the process...
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
> On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Wayne Rogewski wrote:
>
> To my a bit younger eyes, that looks to be a crack as Ken said. Any way to spray that area with brake cleaner and a hit it with a wire brush? That
> would at least clean it up more for a better inspection. There may be a lot of crud sticking to that area. If it is indeed cracked, I wonder if
> putting some JB weld in there may stop it up better until you can properly address it.
> --
> 77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
> Mid Michigan
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333804 is a reply to message #333803] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 13:45 |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Agree, cleaned up pic doesn't appear to show any cracks. Thats a good thing. Smarter people will chime in, but I wonder if backing out that top bolt holding the dip stick tube and putting a little dab of RTV at the top where it will eventually snug back down would help. Perhaps even on the last few threads before the bolt head. (not loctite).
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] My transmission leak... [message #333805 is a reply to message #333802] |
Thu, 21 June 2018 13:47 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Rob,
Comparing an enlarged view of your photo with the FD in my coach, and the
two un-installed ones here, I don't see how that can be anything other than
a crack -- and the source of your leak. You should be able to test that
hypothesis easily with a fine wire -- probably even a small straightened
paper clip -- it will probably slide right into that "crack".
It's hard to believe anyone could be hamfisted enough to break that FD
case, but if the FD was misaligned when attaching it to the TH-425, it
would certainly be possible. I'd be surprised that the transmission wasn't
damaged also, but stranger things have happened.
If it IS a crack, the possibility of filling it with RTV or epoxy as a
stop-gap measure may work, but I certainly would want to get the thing
apart to check for obvious transmission/case damage and to replace that FD
(or at least the case).
Ken "Hoping I'm Wrong" H.
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 2:23 PM Rob wrote:
> I don't think there is a crack, here's a pic after being cleaned up:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/mmxXnEbFNh75LkgBA
>
> I put a wrench on BOLT "A" and it was tight, but not very. Manual said 25
> ft-lbs - this may have been 10? I couldn't easily get a socket on there -
> so it's now "tight is tight enough".
>
> I'll try to get it out for a test run and see if it's any better. But I've
> kind of used up the majority of my optimism on my previous attempts...
>
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Mon Nov 18 00:31:46 CST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01107 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
