Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » plug into GFI outlet
| plug into GFI outlet [message #332173] |
Wed, 16 May 2018 12:37  |
kstockwell
Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT
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Last week while plugged in at home my GFI outlet in the garage popped at some point. I had been using my vacuum cleaner (not the GMC one). I plugged it in again and later I noticed the GFI outlet was buzzing, not super loud but pretty loud.
So, I plugged into my house outlet (non GFI). This GFI outlet is new, the whole line to the garage is new we didn't have one before.
I plugged in this morning, waited for it to start buzzing- maybe 5 minutes. Then I shut breakers off. It would change the pitch of the buzz. I got to the one labeled water heater (on my panel it's the upper right) and the buzzing stopped. So, now what do I do? The water heater was off, I have a wire coming from the breaker box to an normal switch that says water heater. It's always off, I use propane to heat my water.
It's like it's not grounding out, but it's sort of grounded? It sounded like this, but only when I was plugged in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw2MdV1X1iU
thanks
kelly
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
[Updated on: Wed, 16 May 2018 12:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: plug into GFI outlet [message #332191 is a reply to message #332173] |
Wed, 16 May 2018 16:48  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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Turning off the circuit breaker to the water heater does NOT disconnect the neutral and ground to the water heater. It sounds like you have a short in the heating element between neutral and ground. Replace the heating element or disconnect the neutral going to the water heating element. Electric heating elements failures are very common.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: plug into GFI outlet [message #332193 is a reply to message #332191] |
Wed, 16 May 2018 17:19 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT
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Thank you for the info. I should be ok in the meantime if I don't use the water heater on electric and keep the breaker off?
Then when I can I'll change the element. I'm not sure were that is; but I'm sure the internet will help me. It's a newer water heater, not stock
kelly
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
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| Re: plug into GFI outlet [message #332220 is a reply to message #332193] |
Thu, 17 May 2018 07:45 |
mghamms
Messages: 466
Registered: March 2016
Location: Ware, Massachusetts
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Most gmc's have the ground and neutral connected in the breaker box.
There is also the possibility that they are connected elsewhere.
These connections are what will trip the gfi. Gfi just Checks for an unbalanced load between the hot and neutral.
If the neutral and ground are connected some power may be transferred from the neutral to the ground and trip the gfi.
Your gfi may be bad now because of this. Change to a new gfi and use your rv with a none gfi outlet should fix your short term problem.
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
[Updated on: Thu, 17 May 2018 07:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: plug into GFI outlet [message #332223 is a reply to message #332220] |
Thu, 17 May 2018 08:08 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT
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I did more investigation because I realized the IOTA converter was also plugged into this breaker and my batteries were low. Apparently the IOTA DLS45 is what's tripping the GFIC
If I plug it into another outlet in the coach (not the one next to the circuit breaker that also goes to the water heater) it quickly trips. When plugged into the outlet by the circuit breaker it makes the GFI outlet buzz like crazy and eventually trips.
I just did a search and found this.
http://www.everything-about-rving.com/when-my-rv-is-plugged-into-a-gfci-outlet-the-power-converter-is-tripping-the-gfci.html
anyone else have this happen? I'm still not sure my GFI outlet is not the issue. It's new but I had a hot tub on this circuit once with a GFI breaker. Between the GFI on the end of the hot tub plug, and the GFI circuit breaker it didn't work out, we ended up putting in a normal circuit breaker. I now have a normal circuit breaker and a GFI outlet. though other things don't seem to make it buzz or pop.
We leave for music camp tonight. We went a month ago; I'm pretty sure I plug into a GFI outlet there; so I'll see if it happens there. If so this is a new thing, if not my GFI outlet is crap
kelly
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
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| Re: [GMCnet] plug into GFI outlet [message #332224 is a reply to message #332220] |
Thu, 17 May 2018 09:07 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Mike, et al,
Any GMC which has the ground and neutral connected in its breaker box is
MISWIRED and DANGEROUS. That connection should be made ONLY in the shore
power box. To understand this requirement, read this:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmceast.com%2Ftechnical%2FBurton_Grounding_GMC_Motorhome.pdf
or
https://goo.gl/MW1lcP
Ken H.
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:46 AM Mike Hamm wrote:
> Most gmc's have the ground and neutral connected in the breaker box.
> There is also the possibility that they are connected elsewhere.
> These connections ate what will trip the gfi. Gfi just Checks for an
> unbalanced load between the hot and neutral.
> If the neutral and ground are connected some power may be transferred from
> the neutral to the ground and trip the gfi.
> Your gfi may be bad now because of this. Change to a new gfi and use your
> rv with a none gfi outlet should fix your short term problem.
> --
> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] plug into GFI outlet [message #332243 is a reply to message #332224] |
Thu, 17 May 2018 13:05 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT
Karma: 4
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this is what work printers are for. double sided, color ready to read this weekend
thank you
Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2018 10:07Mike, et al,
Any GMC which has the ground and neutral connected in its breaker box is
MISWIRED and DANGEROUS. That connection should be made ONLY in the shore
power box. To understand this requirement, read this:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmceast.com%2Ftechnical%2FBurton_Grounding_GMC_Motorhome.pdf
or
https://goo.gl/MW1lcP
Ken H.
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:46 AM Mike Hamm wrote:
> Most gmc's have the ground and neutral connected in the breaker box.
> There is also the possibility that they are connected elsewhere.
> These connections ate what will trip the gfi. Gfi just Checks for an
> unbalanced load between the hot and neutral.
> If the neutral and ground are connected some power may be transferred from
> the neutral to the ground and trip the gfi.
> Your gfi may be bad now because of this. Change to a new gfi and use your
> rv with a none gfi outlet should fix your short term problem.
> --
> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>
>
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1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
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| Re: [GMCnet] plug into GFI outlet [message #332247 is a reply to message #332243] |
Thu, 17 May 2018 14:51 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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I see in there that Ken B states that Paterson says to ground the dist to
the battery. If i remember correctly in my instructions that came with the
Paterson dist it said to ground it directly to the intake manifold.
Sully
77 eleganza 2
Bellevue
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 11:33 AM kelly stockwell wrote:
> this is what work printers are for. double sided, color ready to read
> this weekend
>
> thank you
>
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2018 10:07
>> Mike, et al,
>>
>> Any GMC which has the ground and neutral connected in its breaker box is
>> MISWIRED and DANGEROUS. That connection should be made ONLY in the shore
>> power box. To understand this requirement, read this:
>>
>>
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmceast.com%2Ftechnical%2FBurton_Grounding_GMC_Motorhome.pdf
>> or
>> https://goo.gl/MW1lcP
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:46 AM Mike Hamm wrote:
>>
>>> Most gmc's have the ground and neutral connected in the breaker box.
>>> There is also the possibility that they are connected elsewhere.
>>> These connections ate what will trip the gfi. Gfi just Checks for an
>>> unbalanced load between the hot and neutral.
>>> If the neutral and ground are connected some power may be transferred
> from
>>> the neutral to the ground and trip the gfi.
>>> Your gfi may be bad now because of this. Change to a new gfi and use
> your
>>> rv with a none gfi outlet should fix your short term problem.
>>> --
>>> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> 1978 Kingsley
> Putney VT
>
> _______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] plug into GFI outlet [message #332253 is a reply to message #332224] |
Thu, 17 May 2018 18:26 |
mghamms
Messages: 466
Registered: March 2016
Location: Ware, Massachusetts
Karma: 2
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Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2018 09:07Mike, et al,
Any GMC which has the ground and neutral connected in its breaker box is
MISWIRED and DANGEROUS. That connection should be made ONLY in the shore
power box. To understand this requirement, read this:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmceast.com%2Ftechnical%2FBurton_Grounding_GMC_Motorhome.pdf
or
https://goo.gl/MW1lcP
Ken H.
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:46 AM Mike Hamm wrote:
> Most gmc's have the ground and neutral connected in the breaker box.
> There is also the possibility that they are connected elsewhere.
> These connections ate what will trip the gfi. Gfi just Checks for an
> unbalanced load between the hot and neutral.
> If the neutral and ground are connected some power may be transferred from
> the neutral to the ground and trip the gfi.
> Your gfi may be bad now because of this. Change to a new gfi and use your
> rv with a none gfi outlet should fix your short term problem.
> --
> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>
>
Miswires Yes
Dangerous Well not that much. Should be fixed to meet the code but no real danger. Don't forget that the NEC if set by committee and not all science.
I did look up the electric code from 1974 just to see if the ground and neutral should be separate at that point of time. And YES they should have even then.
non electricians over time do muck things up.
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1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
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| Re: [GMCnet] plug into GFI outlet [message #332254 is a reply to message #332253] |
Thu, 17 May 2018 18:38 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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If you make yourself into a better ground path than the conductors
themselves provide, you can be assured that electricity will find a way to
ground through you. If you do not consider that to be dangerous, I ponder
why you do not? I would not do that.
Jim Hupy
On Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:26 PM Mike Hamm wrote:
> Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2018 09:07
>> Mike, et al,
>>
>> Any GMC which has the ground and neutral connected in its breaker box is
>> MISWIRED and DANGEROUS. That connection should be made ONLY in the shore
>> power box. To understand this requirement, read this:
>>
>>
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmceast.com%2Ftechnical%2FBurton_Grounding_GMC_Motorhome.pdf
>> or
>> https://goo.gl/MW1lcP
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:46 AM Mike Hamm wrote:
>>
>>> Most gmc's have the ground and neutral connected in the breaker box.
>>> There is also the possibility that they are connected elsewhere.
>>> These connections ate what will trip the gfi. Gfi just Checks for an
>>> unbalanced load between the hot and neutral.
>>> If the neutral and ground are connected some power may be transferred
> from
>>> the neutral to the ground and trip the gfi.
>>> Your gfi may be bad now because of this. Change to a new gfi and use
> your
>>> rv with a none gfi outlet should fix your short term problem.
>>> --
>>> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Miswires Yes
>>
>> Dangerous Well not that much. Should be fixed to meet the code but no
> real danger. Don't forget that the NEC if set by committee and not all
>> science.
>>
>> I did look up the electric code from 1974 just to see if the ground and
> neutral should be separate at that point of time. And YES they should have
>> even then.
>> non electricians over time do muck things up.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: plug into GFI outlet [message #332257 is a reply to message #332173] |
Thu, 17 May 2018 20:34 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I think I convinced Dick to change his instructions and he did it. You are correct. Connect distributor ground to something on the engine. The intake manifold it fine.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] plug into GFI outlet [message #332259 is a reply to message #332254] |
Thu, 17 May 2018 20:41 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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You don't even have to be "better", just good enough to conduct 100 mA (0.1
A) or so at 170 volts (peak voltage 120 vac). That 1700 Ohms isn't hard to
achieve under wet conditions.
Ken H.
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 7:39 PM James Hupy wrote:
> If you make yourself into a better ground path than the conductors
> themselves provide, you can be assured that electricity will find a way to
> ground through you. If you do not consider that to be dangerous, I ponder
> why you do not? I would not do that.
> Jim Hupy
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:26 PM Mike Hamm wrote:
>
>> Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2018 09:07
>>> Mike, et al,
>>>
>>> Any GMC which has the ground and neutral connected in its breaker box
> is
>>> MISWIRED and DANGEROUS. That connection should be made ONLY in the
> shore
>>> power box. To understand this requirement, read this:
>>>
>>>
>>
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmceast.com%2Ftechnical%2FBurton_Grounding_GMC_Motorhome.pdf
>>> or
>>> https://goo.gl/MW1lcP
>>>
>>> Ken H.
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:46 AM Mike Hamm wrote:
>>>
>>>> Most gmc's have the ground and neutral connected in the breaker box.
>>>> There is also the possibility that they are connected elsewhere.
>>>> These connections ate what will trip the gfi. Gfi just Checks for an
>>>> unbalanced load between the hot and neutral.
>>>> If the neutral and ground are connected some power may be
> transferred
>> from
>>>> the neutral to the ground and trip the gfi.
>>>> Your gfi may be bad now because of this. Change to a new gfi and use
>> your
>>>> rv with a none gfi outlet should fix your short term problem.
>>>> --
>>>> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Miswires Yes
>>>
>>> Dangerous Well not that much. Should be fixed to meet the code but no
>> real danger. Don't forget that the NEC if set by committee and not all
>>> science.
>>>
>>> I did look up the electric code from 1974 just to see if the ground and
>> neutral should be separate at that point of time. And YES they should
> have
>>> even then.
>>> non electricians over time do muck things up.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> --
>> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: plug into GFI outlet [message #332286 is a reply to message #332220] |
Fri, 18 May 2018 21:30 |
Rick Staples
Messages: 126
Registered: May 2014
Location: Johnstown, Colorado, USA
Karma: -1
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[quote title=mghamms wrote on Thu, 17 May 2018 06:45]Most gmc's have the ground and neutral connected in the breaker box.
There is also the possibility that they are connected elsewhere.
This differed from my recollection from when I added new circuits and breakers for second AC and electric wall heater, etc to my early '75 Eleganza. So I went and checked the GM wiring diagrams, and no, the neutral and ground busses are NOT interconnected, at least on GM-finished coaches. If they ARE connected, it was probably the IPO at work. Be safe out there.
Rick Staples
Rick Staples, '75 Eleganza, Johnstown, CO
"Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the Wise to the Wise, and all paths may run ill." -Tolkien
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| Re: plug into GFI outlet [message #332290 is a reply to message #332286] |
Sat, 19 May 2018 06:22 |
kstockwell
Messages: 367
Registered: May 2016
Location: Putney VT
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Hi All,
I'm not dead, electrocuted, laying next to the coach, beer one hand.
I got to camp, and plugged into a GFI outside outlet (same as I did a month ago) and the outlet is not buzzing or tripping. So, I'm suspicious of the one at home.
Is there a way to test my plug? Can I plug into something (like a Kill-A-Watt type device that tells you about electrical usage) that could give me info on the electrical flow?
Thank you all for the responses. I was a little worried something had happened in the coach in the last month, but I am hopeful something happened at home.
Having the electrical info is really helpful. I'm on the cusp of getting one lithium battery to replace my golf carts and I wanted to take a good look at my electrical compartment; and where things go/what they do. I need to get the special lithium charging dongle for the IOTA, and I wanted to put the battery in the electrical box area; leaving the back where the 6v batteries are empty for my brand new macerator hose.)
kelly
1978 Kingsley
Putney VT
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| Re: [GMCnet] plug into GFI outlet [message #332291 is a reply to message #332290] |
Sat, 19 May 2018 09:13 |
Dave Stragand
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2017
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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They have little outlet testers at the big box stores for around $5. Very easy to use.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Power-Gear-3-Wire-Receptacle-Tester-50542/206212329
> On May 19, 2018, at 7:22 AM, kelly stockwell wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm not dead, electrocuted, laying next to the coach, beer one hand.
>
> I got to camp, and plugged into a GFI outside outlet (same as I did a month ago) and the outlet is not buzzing or tripping. So, I'm suspicious of the
> one at home.
>
> Is there a way to test my plug? Can I plug into something (like a Kill-A-Watt type device that tells you about electrical usage) that could give me
> info on the electrical flow?
>
> Thank you all for the responses. I was a little worried something had happened in the coach in the last month, but I am hopeful something happened at
> home.
>
> Having the electrical info is really helpful. I'm on the cusp of getting one lithium battery to replace my golf carts and I wanted to take a good
> look at my electrical compartment; and where things go/what they do. I need to get the special lithium charging dongle for the IOTA, and I wanted to
> put the battery in the electrical box area; leaving the back where the 6v batteries are empty for my brand new macerator hose.)
>
> kelly
> --
> 1978 Kingsley
> Putney VT
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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1978 Transmode (403)
Pittsburgh, PA
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| Re: plug into GFI outlet [message #332294 is a reply to message #332173] |
Sat, 19 May 2018 09:44 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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First, if the ground conductor in your power cable is intact, you should not get a shock even with a leakage to ground in the coach and no GFCI. Metal fatigue from improper coiling (kinking and twisting) can break the conductors in the cable set. Look for any areas with kinks, bulges or knots. You can buy a molded extension cord and cut off the female end and have the cord wired into your coach panel to keep factory molded construction. Since it works at camp you may be ok
Secondly you need to understand how GFCIs work. The current on the hot and neutral needs to be equal and opposite. Does not matter if you are using a little or a lot it needs to be the same "coming and going". If not then this tells the GFCI it is going somewhere it should not and instantly trip. If there is a bond between the N and G in the coach that will cause and instant trip as there are now 2 return paths and an imbalance between H and N. Sounds like your GFCI at home has a loose connection or the device has deteriorated. They do not do well in wet or humid Locations. Best to have it replaced and checked afterwards
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: plug into GFI outlet [message #332296 is a reply to message #332173] |
Sat, 19 May 2018 09:53 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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A tip is to always coil your power cable into the compartment using what we call in the entertainment industry as "over under" or "reverse coil". If you gently straighten out the cord and let all the twists come out, then reverse coil it into the compartment you will have zero twists when you extend it. Otherwise if you go round and round you will have one kink for every turn. This can cause the internal conductors to shift ruining the cable.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] plug into GFI outlet [message #332302 is a reply to message #332296] |
Sat, 19 May 2018 11:25 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I used to try to coil both hoses and long extension cords and almost always
fought with them. someone showed me how to handle them. Lay them out in a
straight line, and pull one end to the other. Drop them on the ground, walk
back to the middle, and pick it up, walk to the ends. Repeat, until you can
pick up the whole thing. To deploy, just take it out and give it a toss. It
will lay out, no kinks. If you coil it, it will tangle.
Jim Hupy
On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 7:53 AM, John R. Lebetski
wrote:
> A tip is to always coil your power cable into the compartment using what
> we call in the entertainment industry as "over under" or "reverse coil". If
> you gently straighten out the cord and let all the twists come out, then
> reverse coil it into the compartment you will have zero twists when you
> extend it. Otherwise if you go round and round you will have one kink for
> every turn. This can cause the internal conductors to shift ruining the
> cable.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] plug into GFI outlet [message #332305 is a reply to message #332304] |
Sat, 19 May 2018 11:57 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
We need to have him give us lessons at the next rally -- I haven't been
able to figure it out for the past 81 years! Maybe we can get Kim to
schedule a seminar? :-)
Ken H.
On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 12:40 PM Emery Stora wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 7:53 AM, John R. Lebetski gransport7087@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A tip is to always coil your power cable into the compartment using what
>>> we call in the entertainment industry as "over under" or "reverse
> coil". If
>>> you gently straighten out the cord and let all the twists come out, then
>>> reverse coil it into the compartment you will have zero twists when you
>>> extend it. Otherwise if you go round and round you will have one kink
> for
>>> every turn. This can cause the internal conductors to shift ruining the
>>> cable.
>>> --
>>> John Lebetski
>>> Woodstock, IL
>>> 77 Eleganza II
>>>
>
> John
> You are too late warning me. I have been coiling my 50 (40) amp cable
> round and round for the 37 years that I have owned it.
> When can I expect to have the cable ruined? :)
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
> _______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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