Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE
Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331398] |
Wed, 25 April 2018 23:24 |
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Dutch Marc
Messages: 101 Registered: March 2017 Location: Full TIme Nomad
Karma: 1
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Hi there,
Any1 has experience with using LOCTITE to fix a spinning race in a rear wheel hub?
Thanks Marc
1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
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Re: Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331402 is a reply to message #331398] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 06:03 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629 Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Sir, I have used LOCTITE race retainer in big trucks with good results. I believe it was green. It has been a while ago. I used a new bearing and race and was still in the truck running daily when I sold it 4 years later.
Dutch Marc wrote on Thu, 26 April 2018 00:24Hi there,
Any1 has experience with using LOCTITE to fix a spinning race in a rear wheel hub?
Thanks Marc
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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Re: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331404 is a reply to message #331399] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 06:03 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691 Registered: March 2009 Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Years ago I had a spinning race on a '68 Camero. A machinist pressed the
race, surrounded by shim stock, into the hub . It held for a couple of
years until a Willow tree ended its life.
Would I do the same thing on a GMC...No!
Just my thoughts.
Mike in NS
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 1:35 AM, James Hupy wrote:
> PROBABLY a bad idea. Bearings and spindles normally run hot enough to
> soften loctite. Look to see if there are bearing races slightly oversize
> that will fit tighter. Otherwise, look for good used hubs or spindles still
> within specs, or, build up your existing ones with weld and re-machine. A
> lot rides on those rear hubs.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 9:24 PM Dutch Marc wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Any1 has experience with using LOCTITE to fix a spinning race in a rear
>> wheel hub?
>>
>> Thanks Marc
>> --
>> 1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
>> Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
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Re: Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331405 is a reply to message #331398] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 06:25 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Locktite 272 (Red) has a release temperature of 500 degrees F. (250C) That is above the point where the wheel bearing grease will melt and flow away. So if it ever gets that hot you have other problems. I have done what you suggest but never in a location as critical as you are suggesting to do.
That said, think of the amount of damage that would occur if it ever lets loose going down the road.
I might be tempted to try it in an emergency depending on the amount of wear there.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331409 is a reply to message #331398] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 07:53 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I've watched a back wheel complete with outer bearing pass me on I 75 when the race loosened, and eventually failed the spindle. I believe Hupy has the move for you.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331414 is a reply to message #331398] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 09:05 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Marc,
In my opinion it depends on how loose the bearing is in the hub. However, I don't see how you'll be able to get the race centered in
the hub which will result in the inner and outer races not being concentric and that's not a good thing!
If I were you I'd bite the bullet and replace the hub, period, end of story.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dutch Marc
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 11:24 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE
Hi there,
Any1 has experience with using LOCTITE to fix a spinning race in a rear wheel hub?
Thanks Marc
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331415 is a reply to message #331409] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 09:40 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505 Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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I may be totally out to lunch here, but Marc’s coach has been running with loose outer races for an unknown period of time with no ill effects. Yes the hubs are worn, but nothing has failed. The hubs were probably machined to a loose tolerance 40 years ago and it only has become a problem now.
That said, I would not allow my own coach to continue running with a loose outer race, as it will only continue to get worse.
Depending on how loose the race is in the hub, I would not hesitate to use loctite to prevent the race from moving. The loctite is just preventing rotation by filling the space around the race and bonding it to the hub.
Loctite has several grades of bearing retention products that have high strength and high temp ratings. They also have a primer that is recommended in applications where faster curing and better bonding is desired.
I work in an aircraft engine overhaul facility where we regularly use loctite products to secure sleeves, bushings, and bearings. The use of loctite is factory and FAA approved for these specific applications.
The loctite we use at work for bearing retention is loctite 620 combined with loctite 7471 primer. I wouldn’t hesitate to use it for a TZE rear outer race
Ultimately, the best solution is to find some used hubs that are in better condition and conveniently accessible, but until that happens, I’d keep trucking with loctite on my bearings.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
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Re: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331417 is a reply to message #331415] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 09:58 |
Dave Stragand
Messages: 307 Registered: October 2017
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One a disc brake conversion kit for one of our older cars, the manufacturer specified the use of a specific type of Loctite on a spindle-to-bearing-adapter sleeve. It was Loctite sleeve and bearing retainer if I recall correctly, but I don't remember the number.
It has worked fine in that application, and I also used some of the remainder on the outer race of a rear wheel bearing on a DMC to stop a slip-an-squeak, and it has held for over 20 years.
There's no replacement for doing something the right way of course, but sometimes something as simple as Loctite might buy you a whole bunch of time.
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1978 Transmode (403)
Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331433 is a reply to message #331417] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 15:38 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
I reckon it would be a good idea to check with the "horses mouth" so I sent an email to Locktite USA and got the response below.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
*******************************************************************************************************************************
From: AG - Mike Smigel [mailto:mike.smigel@us.henkel.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:52 PM
To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Subject: Henkel Inquiry - Case #: 00264172 [ ref:_00D301RJ1._5003412lmXP:ref ]
Rob, I would look at Loctite 640 which you have the option of purchasing through an automotive aftermarket distributor as ordering
item # 37424 (6 ml tube). The latter is sold through stores like O'Reilly's, PepBoys, NAPA or Auto Zone. This is used to augment
press fits, but also used for loose, slip fits up to 0.007" on the diameter.
Regards,
Mike Smigel
___________________________
Subject: Bearing Race Locktite
Description: Gentlemen, I have a 12,000 lb GMC Motorhome that has a press fit outer rear wheel bearing race that is spinning in the
hub. Can I use one of your products to lock the race to the hub?
Thanks,
Rob
Date of inquiry: 4/26/2018
Company: Overkill Engineering
Contact Name: Rob
Contact Email: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Contact Address: 2284 Gemini Street,
City: Houston
State: Texas
Zip: 77058
Country: USA
Contact Phone: (832) 331-6467
Case #: 00264172
*******************************************************************************************************************************
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331435 is a reply to message #331433] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 16:59 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501 Registered: October 2011 Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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NAPA # NCB 37424
https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=37424&referer=search_form-allprod
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Rob Mueller
wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I reckon it would be a good idea to check with the "horses mouth" so I
> sent an email to Locktite USA and got the response below.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
> ************************************************************
> *******************************************************************
> From: AG - Mike Smigel [mailto:mike.smigel@us.henkel.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:52 PM
> To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> Subject: Henkel Inquiry - Case #: 00264172 [ ref:_00D301RJ1._5003412lmXP:ref
> ]
>
> Rob, I would look at Loctite 640 which you have the option of purchasing
> through an automotive aftermarket distributor as ordering
> item # 37424 (6 ml tube). The latter is sold through stores like
> O'Reilly's, PepBoys, NAPA or Auto Zone. This is used to augment
> press fits, but also used for loose, slip fits up to 0.007" on the
> diameter.
>
> Regards,
> Mike Smigel
> ___________________________
> Subject: Bearing Race Locktite
>
> Description: Gentlemen, I have a 12,000 lb GMC Motorhome that has a press
> fit outer rear wheel bearing race that is spinning in the
> hub. Can I use one of your products to lock the race to the hub?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
> Date of inquiry: 4/26/2018
>
> Company: Overkill Engineering
> Contact Name: Rob
> Contact Email: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> Contact Address: 2284 Gemini Street,
> City: Houston
> State: Texas
> Zip: 77058
> Country: USA
> Contact Phone: (832) 331-6467
> Case #: 00264172
> ************************************************************
> *******************************************************************
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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Re: Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331438 is a reply to message #331398] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 20:32 |
77Royale
Messages: 461 Registered: June 2014 Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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Just a question for further down the line. Suppose the correct product is used and serves its purpose well to lock the new race in the hub. Further suppose the bearing eventually wears out and needs to be replaced along with a new race. Is that race now that much more difficult to remove because it has been loctite'ed in? Or just put the hub in the press and go.
Just wondering out loud.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
[Updated on: Thu, 26 April 2018 20:33] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331440 is a reply to message #331438] |
Thu, 26 April 2018 20:49 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629 Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Sir, I'm thinking that heating is recommended to break the bond before trying to remove. Removal instructions are usually on the package I threw away 5 years ago.
77Royale wrote on Thu, 26 April 2018 21:32Just a question for further down the line. Suppose the correct product is used and serves its purpose well to lock the new race in the hub. Further suppose the bearing eventually wears out and needs to be replaced along with a new race. Is that race now that much more difficult to remove because it has been loctite'ed in? Or just put the hub in the press and go.
Just wondering out loud.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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Re: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331449 is a reply to message #331415] |
Fri, 27 April 2018 10:05 |
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Dutch Marc
Messages: 101 Registered: March 2017 Location: Full TIme Nomad
Karma: 1
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Thanks Burt for your input
Les Burt[1 wrote on Thu, 26 April 2018 07:40]I may be totally out to lunch here, but Marc's coach has been running with loose outer races for an unknown period of time with no ill effects. Yes the hubs are worn, but nothing has failed. The hubs were probably machined to a loose tolerance 40 years ago and it only has become a problem now.
That said, I would not allow my own coach to continue running with a loose outer race, as it will only continue to get worse.
Depending on how loose the race is in the hub, I would not hesitate to use loctite to prevent the race from moving. The loctite is just preventing rotation by filling the space around the race and bonding it to the hub.
Loctite has several grades of bearing retention products that have high strength and high temp ratings. They also have a primer that is recommended in applications where faster curing and better bonding is desired.
I work in an aircraft engine overhaul facility where we regularly use loctite products to secure sleeves, bushings, and bearings. The use of loctite is factory and FAA approved for these specific applications.
The loctite we use at work for bearing retention is loctite 620 combined with loctite 7471 primer. I wouldn't hesitate to use it for a TZE rear outer race
Ultimately, the best solution is to find some used hubs that are in better condition and conveniently accessible, but until that happens, I'd keep trucking with loctite on my bearings.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
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1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
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Re: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331450 is a reply to message #331433] |
Fri, 27 April 2018 10:07 |
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Dutch Marc
Messages: 101 Registered: March 2017 Location: Full TIme Nomad
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Rob, Good info. Next time will try myself.. Liked the experience feedback from form. PriceLess
USAussie wrote on Thu, 26 April 2018 13:38G'day,
I reckon it would be a good idea to check with the "horses mouth" so I sent an email to Locktite USA and got the response below.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
*******************************************************************************************************************************
From: AG - Mike Smigel [mailto:mike.smigel@us.henkel.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:52 PM
To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Subject: Henkel Inquiry - Case #: 00264172 [ ref:_00D301RJ1._5003412lmXP:ref ]
Rob, I would look at Loctite 640 which you have the option of purchasing through an automotive aftermarket distributor as ordering
item # 37424 (6 ml tube). The latter is sold through stores like O'Reilly's, PepBoys, NAPA or Auto Zone. This is used to augment
press fits, but also used for loose, slip fits up to 0.007" on the diameter.
Regards,
Mike Smigel
___________________________
Subject: Bearing Race Locktite
Description: Gentlemen, I have a 12,000 lb GMC Motorhome that has a press fit outer rear wheel bearing race that is spinning in the
hub. Can I use one of your products to lock the race to the hub?
Thanks,
Rob
Date of inquiry: 4/26/2018
Company: Overkill Engineering
Contact Name: Rob
Contact Email: robmueller@iinet.net.au
Contact Address: 2284 Gemini Street,
City: Houston
State: Texas
Zip: 77058
Country: USA
Contact Phone: (832) 331-6467
Case #: 00264172
*******************************************************************************************************************************
1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
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Re: [GMCnet] Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331453 is a reply to message #331450] |
Fri, 27 April 2018 11:17 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806 Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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One more "fix" for loose races is knurling. On the hubs, it requires an
internal knurling tool, on the spindles, it would require removing them
from the bogie arms, chucking them in a lathe, then replacing them. The
process could correct loose hubs.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018, 8:08 AM Dutch Marc wrote:
> Thanks Rob, Good info. Next time will try myself.. Liked the experience
> feedback from form. PriceLess :)
>
> USAussie wrote on Thu, 26 April 2018 13:38
>> G'day,
>>
>> I reckon it would be a good idea to check with the "horses mouth" so I
> sent an email to Locktite USA and got the response below.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>> Sydney, Australia
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>
>>
> *******************************************************************************************************************************
>> From: AG - Mike Smigel [mailto:mike.smigel@us.henkel.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 1:52 PM
>> To: robmueller@iinet.net.au
>> Subject: Henkel Inquiry - Case #: 00264172 [
> ref:_00D301RJ1._5003412lmXP:ref ]
>>
>> Rob, I would look at Loctite 640 which you have the option of purchasing
> through an automotive aftermarket distributor as ordering
>> item # 37424 (6 ml tube). The latter is sold through stores like
> O'Reilly's, PepBoys, NAPA or Auto Zone. This is used to augment
>> press fits, but also used for loose, slip fits up to 0.007" on the
> diameter.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike Smigel
>> ___________________________
>> Subject: Bearing Race Locktite
>>
>> Description: Gentlemen, I have a 12,000 lb GMC Motorhome that has a
> press fit outer rear wheel bearing race that is spinning in the
>> hub. Can I use one of your products to lock the race to the hub?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
>>
>> Date of inquiry: 4/26/2018
>>
>> Company: Overkill Engineering
>> Contact Name: Rob
>> Contact Email: robmueller@iinet.net.au
>> Contact Address: 2284 Gemini Street,
>> City: Houston
>> State: Texas
>> Zip: 77058
>> Country: USA
>> Contact Phone: (832) 331-6467
>> Case #: 00264172
>>
> *******************************************************************************************************************************
>
>
> --
> 1973 26' Canyon Land (Mello Yello) (TZE063v101302)
> Full Time GMC Nomad ('98 NL 2 USA)
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Re: Experience? with Race repair/fix with LOCTITE [message #331460 is a reply to message #331398] |
Fri, 27 April 2018 16:08 |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631 Registered: July 2012 Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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Senior Member |
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Marc,
You asked about only the Loctite, didn't specify which Loctite you were asking about, and omitted the other part of the process. I had asked B to send you the link with the information about using Loctite on a loose bearing cup.
https://www.grainews.ca/2014/12/10/how-to-deal-with-a-loose-bearing-race/
That page details the process, using a center punch to raise metal around the bearing cup seat, and the specific Loctite product.
https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-442-66010-Retaining-Compound-Silver/dp/B000O03DK0
That Loctite is good to 300 degrees F and by itself is good for a gap up to .020", full cure in 24 hours.
Using a center punch to evenly space points of raised metal around the bearing cup seat is an easy and measured way to maintain the concentricity, a concern as Rob M mentioned, and is a homebrew way of accomplishing the same thing as the knurling that Jim Hupy mentioned, raising metal to tighten the fit. I think in most cases an automatic center punch would suffice and raise a sufficient amount of metal and do it in a more measured way than manually with a hammer and center punch.
The combination of Loctite and raised metal accomplishes what can't be done by either alone. How long will it last? Who knows, but short of replacing the hub, and barring you smoking your hubs (which as people point out, by then you've boiled your brake fluid and the grease has left your bearings) it should last. Peace of mind? Throw money at it.
Just trying to put everybody on the same page so there's a more complete picture, as I'm sure this question crops up frequently. Good luck with your repair!
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
[Updated on: Fri, 27 April 2018 16:17] Report message to a moderator
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