Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? (maybe you don't want to bet your life on it!)
JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #323858] |
Wed, 13 September 2017 21:08 |
rjw
Messages: 697 Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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While getting ready to leave for the Elkhart rally, I had a conversation with a well respected and reliable GMCer about vacuum pumps.
I had mentioned that I have installed in my coach the often recommended "JC-4 Vacuum Pump". He remarked that most of them were not very good at providing an adequate backup vacuum (for braking) in the event of an engine failure. But, that's why we have them, for an adequate vacuum source to give us brakes if the motor goes south and stops producing vacuum.
I decided to do a test to see how my brakes work without engine vacuum and how the JC-4 does as a backup. I have a 1/2 mile stretch of road near my house with little traffic. I drove there in my GMC and started out going 30 MPH, put it in neutral and shut down the motor. I pressed the brake pedal a few times to dump vacuum and then tried to stop. The result was not good and it was a good thing I didn't have to stop because I could not stop.
I did it again, except this time after shutting the motor off I turned the ignition back on (to power the JC-4 pump). I did the same thing, dumped the vacuum, but now I could hear the pump running when I pressed the brake pedal. I waited until it stopped and then I tried to stop the coach. The result was there was a slight improvement over no vacuum, but not what I had expected. I was able to stop, but it seemed not much better than with no vacuum. I repeated these tests several times with the same resulsts.
I would not want to be going down a mountain road with a toad and try to stop with the engine not running and relying on the JC-4.
My conclusion is that I am going to get rid of my JC-4 and go to something more robust.
Apparently, the problem with the JC-4 is that it shuts off before adequate (for our needs) vacuum is achieved. It might be possible to by pass the internal pressure switch to something that would allow it to pump down to the vacuum that we need to stop. Then maybe it would be OK.
My advice for those that have JC-4 Vacuum Pumps is to try my test and see how comfortable you are with it as your emergency vacuum backup.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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Re: [GMCnet] JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #323860 is a reply to message #323858] |
Wed, 13 September 2017 21:36 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452 Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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I wonder if anyone has done a similar test using the European Ford (Azure ?) vacuum port?
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ Since 30 November '53 ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ Member GMCMI and Classics ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~~ Cellphone: 405-642-7337 ~~
______________
|[ ]~~~[][ ][]\
"--OO--[]---O-"
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of RJW
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 21:08
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] JC-4 Vacuum Pump??
While getting ready to leave for the Elkhart rally, I had a conversation with a well respected and reliable GMCer about vacuum pumps.
I had mentioned that I have installed in my coach the often recommended "JC-4 Vacuum Pump". He remarked that most of them were not very good at providing an adequate backup vacuum (for braking) in the event of an engine failure. But, that's why we have them, for an adequate vacuum source to give us brakes if the motor goes south and stops producing vacuum.
I decided to do a test to see how my brakes work without engine vacuum and how the JC-4 does as a backup. I have a 1/2 mile stretch of road near my house with little traffic. I drove there in my GMC and started out going 30 MPH, put it in neutral and shut down the motor. I pressed the brake pedal a few times to dump vacuum and then tried to stop. The result was not good and it was a good thing I didn't have to stop because I could not stop.
I did it again, except this time after shutting the motor off I turned the ignition back on (to power the JC-4 pump). I did the same thing, dumped the vacuum, but now I could hear the pump running when I pressed the brake pedal. I waited until it stopped and then I tried to stop the coach. The result was there was a slight improvement over no vacuum, but not what I had expected. I was able to stop, but it seemed not much better than with no vacuum. I repeated these tests several times with the same results.
I would not want to be going down a mountain road with a toad and try to stop with the engine not running and relying on the JC-4.
My conclusion is that I am going to get rid of my JC-4 and go to something more robust.
Apparently, the problem with the JC-4 is that it shuts off before adequate (for our needs) vacuum is achieved. It might be possible to by pass the internal pressure switch to something that would allow it to pump down to the vacuum that we need to stop. Then maybe it would be OK.
My advice for those that have JC-4 Vacuum Pumps is to try my test and see how comfortable you are with it as your emergency vacuum backup.
--
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
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Re: [GMCnet] JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #323861 is a reply to message #323860] |
Wed, 13 September 2017 22:24 |
Jerry Wheeler
Messages: 246 Registered: January 2013
Karma: 2
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Why not do the test with the ignition left on?? Perhaps our coach will
stop with the pump running. If my motor dies, I would not turn off the
ignition switch; I would want to be able to steer the coach when rolling,
even if I did not have brakes. By the way, I have the Delco vacuum pump
that is not longer available, but I have not tested my brakes; I have my
vacuum pump wired to a separate source for 12v, not the ignition switch. I
probably should do the same test you did Richard.
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 10:36 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald
wrote:
> I wonder if anyone has done a similar test using the European Ford (Azure
> ?) vacuum port?
>
>
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ Since 30 November '53 ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ Member GMCMI and Classics ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
> ~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~~ Cellphone: 405-642-7337 ~~
> ______________
> |[ ]~~~[][ ][]\
> "--OO--[]---O-"
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of RJW mygmc@palmbeachgmc.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 21:08
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] JC-4 Vacuum Pump??
>
> While getting ready to leave for the Elkhart rally, I had a conversation
> with a well respected and reliable GMCer about vacuum pumps.
>
> I had mentioned that I have installed in my coach the often recommended
> "JC-4 Vacuum Pump". He remarked that most of them were not very good at
> providing an adequate backup vacuum (for braking) in the event of an engine
> failure. But, that's why we have them, for an adequate vacuum source to
> give us brakes if the motor goes south and stops producing vacuum.
>
> I decided to do a test to see how my brakes work without engine vacuum and
> how the JC-4 does as a backup. I have a 1/2 mile stretch of road near my
> house with little traffic. I drove there in my GMC and started out going
> 30 MPH, put it in neutral and shut down the motor. I pressed the brake
> pedal a few times to dump vacuum and then tried to stop. The result was
> not good and it was a good thing I didn't have to stop because I could not
> stop.
>
> I did it again, except this time after shutting the motor off I turned the
> ignition back on (to power the JC-4 pump). I did the same thing, dumped the
> vacuum, but now I could hear the pump running when I pressed the brake
> pedal. I waited until it stopped and then I tried to stop the coach. The
> result was there was a slight improvement over no vacuum, but not what I
> had expected. I was able to stop, but it seemed not much better than with
> no vacuum. I repeated these tests several times with the same results.
>
> I would not want to be going down a mountain road with a toad and try to
> stop with the engine not running and relying on the JC-4.
>
> My conclusion is that I am going to get rid of my JC-4 and go to something
> more robust.
>
> Apparently, the problem with the JC-4 is that it shuts off before adequate
> (for our needs) vacuum is achieved. It might be possible to by pass the
> internal pressure switch to something that would allow it to pump down to
> the vacuum that we need to stop. Then maybe it would be OK.
>
> My advice for those that have JC-4 Vacuum Pumps is to try my test and see
> how comfortable you are with it as your emergency vacuum backup.
> --
> Richard
> 76 Palm Beach
> SE Michigan
> www.PalmBeachGMC.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Re: [GMCnet] JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #323863 is a reply to message #323861] |
Thu, 14 September 2017 06:11 |
rjw
Messages: 697 Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Jerry Wheeler wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 23:24Why not do the test with the ignition left on?? Perhaps our coach will
stop with the pump running. If my motor dies, I would not turn off the
ignition switch; I would want to be able to steer the coach when rolling,
even if I did not have brakes. By the way, I have the Delco vacuum pump
that is not longer available, but I have not tested my brakes; I have my
vacuum pump wired to a separate source for 12v, not the ignition switch. I
probably should do the same test you did Richard.
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
I tested with the ignition off, to see what happens without any vacuum. Also, with the ignition on, to see how helpful the JC-4 pump would be in the event of an engine failure.
All this time I thought I was covered in the event I lost vacuum.
Previously I had a Delco pump and that worked. It fell apart and since there were no replacements available at the time I went to the JC-4.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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Re: [GMCnet] JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #323864 is a reply to message #323860] |
Thu, 14 September 2017 07:18 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
Below you will find an email I posted regarding these pumps which I believe will allay anyone fears about the Azure vacuum pump
along with one from Les B.
Dave L did a demo of it at the Shawnee GMCMI Convention in conjunction with the GMC booster and it was amazing!
They are still available from Dorman P/N 904-814 unfortunately they ain't $115 any more! However, I ga-ron-tee this pump will out
perform anything else on the market. Take into consideration it was NOT a backup; it was the only vacuum source for braking in the
Azure!
Parts Geek: $270
Tiny URL: http://tinyurl.com/yd67vxnv
Full URL:
http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/MC/96880-07204175.html?utm_content=MC&utm_term=2011-2012+Ford+F150+Vacuum+Pump+Dorman+904-814+11
-12+Ford+Vacuum+Pump&fp=pp&gbm=a&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0ejNBRCYARIs ACEBhD
MJXd7M1Vub_JJNNZn-UymXHSV_MBXSF00I_mGgYjShlK39uLWkwhwaAtJwEALw_wcB&ad=47362750812
Summit: $295
Tiny URL: http://tinyurl.com/ycwhtfqc
Full URL:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-904-814?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-dorman&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0ejNBRCYARIs
ACEBhDOUFYu2r1XI7d0a6f9p9ngSRDZ_Afn10346Vg_vAai3Is1YONpWxJQaAmPaEALw_wcB
Oscaro: $302
Tiny URL: http://tinyurl.com/y73fnw2t
Full URL:
http://www.oscaroparts.com/dorman-vacuum-pump-904-814-20092795-5172-p?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0ejNBRCYARIsACEBhDOhetmRt90FGWXDzIZJzjSFu4KcevP9
FOl0ggALwyk1BzDNGILre90aAkWiEALw_wcB
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Mueller
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:39 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] SUPER Brake Booster Aux Vacuum Pump
G'day,
Here's a SUPER brake booster Aux Vacuum Pump for our GMC's
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Continental-Electric-Vacuum-Pump-12VDC-Ford-A426C-/370691272503
I purchased two of them and they really SUCK! ;-)
At $115 with free shipping they are a bargain compared to anything else out there. If you read the blurb you will note that they
were meant to go in an electric vehicle sold in Europe that has been discontinued (Ford Azure). That means they were the ONLY vacuum
source for the brake booster so they had to be designed to be ultra reliable. I took one of these suckers apart and found that the
internals are very simple and crank / connecting rods run on bearings!
Because they have dual diaphragms they suck a lot more than any other pump on the market.
Unfortunately you will have to come up with a mounting bracket as none are available commercially.
If you buy one you will note that the plastic 3/8" barb fitting has a little tab that fits in a slot on the pump that keeps it from
rotating, with a small Dremel tool you can remove the barb and the fitting will rotate 360 degrees.
More photos:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6633-brake-booster-vacuum-pump.html
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Les Burt
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:49 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Anybody installed a Delco 20804130 Vacuum Pump??
The ford vacuum pump ( aka Ford Azzure vacuum pump) that was listed on eBay a while back is still easily found. The early f150
ecoboost pick up uses the same pump. They were notorious for corrosion, so Ford revised the design and the latest version has a
black composite body. You can buy them here in Canada at the Ford dealer for just a bit over $200cad.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
The EWIP (Eternal Work In Progress)
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #323871 is a reply to message #323865] |
Thu, 14 September 2017 11:31 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971 Registered: March 2013 Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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I used the Ford pump as the only source of vacuum when I first did the Diesel swap(diesels make no vacuum). The pump seemed to work fine but one of the downsides to using them is that they loose efficiently at high altitudes. We live at 5280' and quite often drive over 8000' where these pumps are limited. I chose to build a hydro boost system which works well but also has it's own drawbacks during engine failures. Nothing out there is "perfect" for every situation. It's best to find the balance you are comfortable with and go for it. Just my way of thinking.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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Re: JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #323879 is a reply to message #323858] |
Thu, 14 September 2017 17:12 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Lemme suggest, instead of dropping a perfectly good albeit no very great volume pump, simply add a reservoir. II use about 3 feet of 4 inch PVC pipe capped at each end strapped to the cross-member in front of the radiator using band clamps. Glue a couple of bayonet connectors into it, and be sure to add a check valve. Onmy 23' coacg, good for three complete stops w/o engine assist.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #323880 is a reply to message #323877] |
Thu, 14 September 2017 17:55 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Pete Pappas, past SunShine Statesman & Dixielander, devised a way to
increase the cutoff pressure of the JC4. He sent me details at one time.
Unfortunately I can neither remember nor find the details. I do recall that
it involved adding something like a ballpoint pen spring and a small
machine screw. I never did it because I figured I'd prefer to bypass the
internal switch and add an external one -- which I never did because the
Azure pumps came along first.
Searching for that mod, I came across the link to Gene's brake postings.
Here it is for the enlightenment of newbies:
http://gmcmotorhome.info/addens.html
Ken H.
On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 5:30 PM, larry.whisler
wrote:
> ...
>
> Someone was looking into altering the internal switch to achieve a higher
> vacuum. I have no doubt that the JC4 pump could provide an adequate
> amount \
> of vacuum if the switch could be overridden.
>
...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #323893 is a reply to message #323880] |
Fri, 15 September 2017 00:32 |
johnd01
Messages: 354 Registered: July 2017 Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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Just for comparison what is nominal engine vacuum in a braking situation?
On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Pete Pappas, past SunShine Statesman & Dixielander, devised a way to
> increase the cutoff pressure of the JC4. He sent me details at one time.
> Unfortunately I can neither remember nor find the details. I do recall that
> it involved adding something like a ballpoint pen spring and a small
> machine screw. I never did it because I figured I'd prefer to bypass the
> internal switch and add an external one -- which I never did because the
> Azure pumps came along first.
>
> Searching for that mod, I came across the link to Gene's brake postings.
> Here it is for the enlightenment of newbies:
>
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/addens.html
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 5:30 PM, larry.whisler
> wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>> Someone was looking into altering the internal switch to achieve a higher
>> vacuum. I have no doubt that the JC4 pump could provide an adequate
>> amount \
>> of vacuum if the switch could be overridden.
>>
> ...
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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Re: [GMCnet] JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #323895 is a reply to message #323893] |
Fri, 15 September 2017 06:10 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Probably 25" Hg. Since the booster holds the highest vacuum it's seen
since the last brake application, it's conceivable that it could be as high
as 30" Hg. after a long off-throttle deceleration.
Ken H.
On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 1:32 AM, John Phillips
wrote:
> Just for comparison what is nominal engine vacuum in a braking situation?
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #364211 is a reply to message #323893] |
Sun, 23 May 2021 12:18 |
GatsbysCruise
Messages: 261 Registered: January 2017 Location: Waukegan, Illinois
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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The question was "Just for comparison what is nominal engine vacuum in a braking situation?"
I am pretty sure unless you are very good at being a mechanic, that you may wonder the same thing.
I read a message a time back where someone was taking readings and said with the vacuum pump
running, the system would hold 20lbs vacuum.
But he also suggested that pressing the brake pedal, with the engine not running, and holding the
pedal down, does not hold the psi, but the vacuum leaks off, ever so slowly. You will eventually,
and it seems in a short time lose any vacuum you have stored if you have no vac pump operational when
the engine dies.
food for thought.
Just what I read.
GatsbysCruise. \
74GMC260 Former Glacier Model style. \
Waukegan, Illinois \ Keep those MiniDiscs Spinning \ MY GREYHOUND IS FASTER THAN YOUR HONOR ROLL STUDENT \ WindowsXP-Win7-Win8.1-UBUNTU STUDIO - UBUNTU VOYAGER - Berzin Auto Center
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Re: JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #364214 is a reply to message #364212] |
Sun, 23 May 2021 14:43 |
rjw
Messages: 697 Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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RF_Burns wrote on Sun, 23 May 2021 14:45I posted this about a year ago on the operation of the JC-4 vacuum pump. Its not a great pump, about 8-9" of vacuum is all you can expect from it.
I bypassed the internal circuitry so now it only acts as a vacuum pump. Then I wired it through a relay controlled by Dave Lenzi's vacuum switch assembly. Best I can get is about 15" of vacuum. Not great but better than nothing.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6785/JC-4_vacuum_pump_operation.pdf
I might have kept my JC-4 pump had I known about the mod to use an external switch and some sort of reserve vacuum storage container. I thought a lot about the possibility of losing brakes while I was driving down to Death Valley from California and was happy I had the upgrade over the JC-4 pump. That trip caused me to decide to go with Dave Lenzi's disk brakes (I already had a 4-bag system). During the installation of the disk brakes I found out that I had a badly leaking drum brake cylinder that may have contributed to my less than great brakes during that trip down to the valley.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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Re: JC-4 Vacuum Pump?? [message #364225 is a reply to message #364219] |
Mon, 24 May 2021 06:05 |
rjw
Messages: 697 Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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RF_Burns wrote on Sun, 23 May 2021 22:01Richard,
Have you read DaveL's article in the Spring GMCMI magazine about the proportioning vales. If you have replaced your OEM with a brass proportioning valve, you may have limited rear brake pressure.
The "Mod" of the JC-4 wasn't really a high tech "Mod". I believe the internal control circuitry pulled one side of the motor to ground through a Power FET to turn it ON. I just moved wire on the switched side of the motor to the JC-4 ground pin and ran that pin through the relay to ground.... I'd have to look at it again to be sure.
I never changed out my OEM valve to the often touted brass proportioning valve because I never got around to it. As it turned out, Dave showed me his cutaways of various valves and explained what he had learned about them during a visit to his place in March. Consequently, I'm happy I never got around to switching to a brass valve. I've never had better braking, since I installed his disk brakes, the newer 4-bag suspension, 80MM calipers in the front and a still working OEM proportioning valve. However, I don't have a working parking brake.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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