Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Check your Lower A arm ball joints
| Check your Lower A arm ball joints [message #321969] |
Sat, 12 August 2017 14:06  |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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The Greater Midwest Classics had a "work" rally at Steve Rasmussen's place last weekend. As one the workers, I was charged with checking the lower A arm ball joints of every coach that was put on either of the two racks. Not necessarily checking for a bad joint, but rather checking for replacement ball joints that were improperly installed or loose. The original ball joints were riveted in place, and according to the manual, (GMC Motorhome Maintenance Manual X-7725) on page 3A-17 under "Ball Joint Checks", a pry bar is used to check for play. The "reading must not exceed .125". That is 1/8th inch. Unfortunately most alignment shops will check for play and to them any play at all is unacceptable, so they charge you for, and replace ball joints that don't need replacement. Consequently there are many coaches out there with new lower ball joints that have been replaced using the grade 8...5/16" bolts that come in the package. These new ball joints are held in place with three bolts. One larger bolt that goes down from the top through the A frame into the ball joint. In addition then, there are two 5/16", bolts on the "Ears" of the joint. Considering that these joints are really replacement for the Toronado or Eldorado, the 5/16" bolts are inadequate for this application. Over time these bolts come loose and can lead to lower arm failure in cracks that can appear around the larger bolt hole or can loosen to the point of falling out, which can eventually lead to a cocking of the joint which changes the camber and can wear out tires in a hurry. If you have replacement joints, the top larger bolt should be checked first for tightness. Then the 5/16" bolts should come out and be replaced with 3/8" X 1 1/4" grade 8 international fine button bolts and you should apply several drops of red Lock Tight to the threads. When drilling out the hole for the larger bolts, use progressively larger drills or reams, until the bolt has a lightly snug fit in the hole. Of the 15 coaches that I checked, EVERY ONE of the lower arm ball joints were loose, and in several cases, bolts on the ears were missing. Even two of the four ear bolts on mine were loose, and I had the 3/8" bolts in place, but without the Lock Tight.
With that kind of a record, everyone should be checking the the bolts on their lower ball joints NOW. JMHO and HTH someone.
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Check your Lower A arm ball joints [message #321970 is a reply to message #321969] |
Sat, 12 August 2017 16:07  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Steve Ferguson recommended the same thing.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 5:07 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Check your Lower A arm ball joints
The Greater Midwest Classics had a "work" rally at Steve Rasmussen's place last weekend. As one the workers, I was charged with
checking the lower A
arm ball joints of every coach that was put on either of the two racks. Not necessarily checking for a bad joint, but rather
checking for replacement
ball joints that were improperly installed or loose. The original ball joints were riveted in place, and according to the manual,
(GMC Motorhome
Maintenance Manual X-7725) on page 3A-17 under "Ball Joint Checks", a pry bar is used to check for play. The "reading must not
exceed .125". That is
1/8th inch. Unfortunately most alignment shops will check for play and to them any play at all is unacceptable, so they charge you
for, and replace
ball joints that don't need replacement. Consequently there are many coaches out there with new lower ball joints that have been
replaced using the
grade 8...5/16" bolts that come in the package. These new ball joints are held in place with three bolts. One larger bolt that
goes down from the
top through the A frame into the ball joint. In addition then, there are two 5/16", bolts on the "Ears" of the joint. Considering
that these joints
are really replacement for the Toronado or Eldorado, the 5/16" bolts are inadequate for this application. Over time these bolts come
loose and can
lead to lower arm failure in cracks that can appear around the larger bolt hole or can loosen to the point of falling out, which can
eventually lead
to a cocking of the joint which changes the camber and can wear out tires in a hurry. If you have replacement joints, the top
larger bolt should be
checked first for tightness. Then the 5/16" bolts should come out and be replaced with 3/8" X 1 1/4" grade 8 international fine
button bolts and you
should apply several drops of red Lock Tight to the threads. When drilling out the hole for the larger bolts, use progressively
larger drills or
reams, until the bolt has a lightly snug fit in the hole. Of the 15 coaches that I checked, EVERY ONE of the lower arm ball joints
were loose, and in
several cases, bolts on the ears were missing. Even two of the four ear bolts on mine were loose, and I had the 3/8" bolts in
place, but without the
Lock Tight.
With that kind of a record, everyone should be checking the the bolts on their lower ball joints NOW. JMHO and HTH someone.
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Check your Lower A arm ball joints [message #321975 is a reply to message #321969] |
Sat, 12 August 2017 17:11 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
I say every time you change Oil is a good time to snug the bolts and the
nut.
We see that quite frequently at our shop.
Once the arm is gouged out, one should replace the arm.
On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Larry wrote:
> The Greater Midwest Classics had a "work" rally at Steve Rasmussen's place
> last weekend. As one the workers, I was charged with checking the lower A
> arm ball joints of every coach that was put on either of the two racks.
> Not necessarily checking for a bad joint, but rather checking for
> replacement
> ball joints that were improperly installed or loose. The original ball
> joints were riveted in place, and according to the manual, (GMC Motorhome
> Maintenance Manual X-7725) on page 3A-17 under "Ball Joint Checks", a pry
> bar is used to check for play. The "reading must not exceed .125". That is
> 1/8th inch. Unfortunately most alignment shops will check for play and to
> them any play at all is unacceptable, so they charge you for, and replace
> ball joints that don't need replacement. Consequently there are many
> coaches out there with new lower ball joints that have been replaced using
> the
> grade 8...5/16" bolts that come in the package. These new ball joints
> are held in place with three bolts. One larger bolt that goes down from the
> top through the A frame into the ball joint. In addition then, there are
> two 5/16", bolts on the "Ears" of the joint. Considering that these joints
> are really replacement for the Toronado or Eldorado, the 5/16" bolts are
> inadequate for this application. Over time these bolts come loose and can
> lead to lower arm failure in cracks that can appear around the larger bolt
> hole or can loosen to the point of falling out, which can eventually lead
> to a cocking of the joint which changes the camber and can wear out tires
> in a hurry. If you have replacement joints, the top larger bolt should be
> checked first for tightness. Then the 5/16" bolts should come out and be
> replaced with 3/8" X 1 1/4" grade 8 international fine button bolts and you
> should apply several drops of red Lock Tight to the threads. When drilling
> out the hole for the larger bolts, use progressively larger drills or
> reams, until the bolt has a lightly snug fit in the hole. Of the 15
> coaches that I checked, EVERY ONE of the lower arm ball joints were loose,
> and in
> several cases, bolts on the ears were missing. Even two of the four ear
> bolts on mine were loose, and I had the 3/8" bolts in place, but without the
> Lock Tight.
>
> With that kind of a record, everyone should be checking the the bolts on
> their lower ball joints NOW. JMHO and HTH someone.
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Check your Lower A arm ball joints [message #321982 is a reply to message #321969] |
Sat, 12 August 2017 18:57 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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One more good reason for going to the 1-Ton, especially if you find the
lower A-arms damaged. That entire section is cut off and replaced with
much more robust material and better secured ball joints.
JMHO,
Ken H.
On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Larry wrote:
> ...
> Of the 15 coaches that I checked, EVERY ONE of the lower arm ball joints
> were loose, and in
> several cases, bolts on the ears were missing. Even two of the four ear
> bolts on mine were loose, and I had the 3/8" bolts in place, but without the
>
> Lock Tight.
>
> With that kind of a record, everyone should be checking the the bolts on
> their lower ball joints NOW. JMHO and HTH someone.
> --
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Check your Lower A arm ball joints [message #321994 is a reply to message #321989] |
Sun, 13 August 2017 03:13 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
If you replace the 5/16" bolts with 3/8" UNF bolts, apply red Locktite; and torque them to the max allowable they won't loosen, at
least the ones in Double Trouble's lower control arms I got from Steve Ferguson haven't since 2008!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 1:46 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Check your Lower A arm ball joints
May be a good reason to go to the one ton...but for now, checking and keeping those bolts tight will keep you safely on the road for
some time to come. JMHO
--
Larry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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