Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Power to Starter
| [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321656] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 16:09  |
Arthur Mansfield
Messages: 290
Registered: April 2010
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I was trying to check out the isolator and tried to start the motor. I found I am not getting any voltage down to the started when I try and start the motor. Is there a relay in the dash or is the problem in the key or shift level.
I guess my RV has seen better days. When chasing the wire to the started I found it need to be replaced as the insulation has started to come apart under neath. Fortunately the wire is not touching anything.
Art
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321659 is a reply to message #321658] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 16:41  |
Arthur Mansfield
Messages: 290
Registered: April 2010
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I checked the battery voltage does not change when I try and start the motor. I even tried to add the house battery and no help. I am just glade I check to see if power was getting to the starter before I pulled the starter.
> On Aug 5, 2017, at 4:30 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>
> Art, do not lose hope. Battery cables are a maintenance item. THE VERY,
> VERY FIRST THING YOU NEED TO VERIFY IS VOLTAGE AT THE BATTERY THAT YOU USE
> FOR STARTING THE COACH. IF IT IS LESS THAN 12.25 VOLTS WITHOUT A LOAD,
> CHARGE IT. UNTIL YOU ARE WORKING WITH A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY, YOU WILL BE
> UNSUCCESSFUL AT TROUBLE SHOOTING ANY PART OF THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM. WHEN
> YOU HAVE A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY WITH GOOD CLEAN CABLES CONNECTED
> CORRECTLY, THEN COME BACK ON THE NET SO WE CAN HELP YOU.
> JIM HUPY
> SALEM, OR
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>
> On Aug 5, 2017 2:10 PM, "1104agm" wrote:
>
> I was trying to check out the isolator and tried to start the motor. I
> found I am not getting any voltage down to the started when I try and start
> the motor. Is there a relay in the dash or is the problem in the key or
> shift level.
>
> I guess my RV has seen better days. When chasing the wire to the started I
> found it need to be replaced as the insulation has started to come apart
> under neath. Fortunately the wire is not touching anything.
>
> Art
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321660 is a reply to message #321659] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 16:58 |
Arthur Mansfield
Messages: 290
Registered: April 2010
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I changed the tilt on the searing column and the started engaged. The column was full tilted up. Now it is straight Jim’s comment about the neutral rod made me try the column first.
So what do I need to fix.
Thanks
Art
> On Aug 5, 2017, at 4:41 PM, 1104agm wrote:
>
> I checked the battery voltage does not change when I try and start the motor. I even tried to add the house battery and no help. I am just glade I check to see if power was getting to the starter before I pulled the starter.
>
>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 4:30 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>>
>> Art, do not lose hope. Battery cables are a maintenance item. THE VERY,
>> VERY FIRST THING YOU NEED TO VERIFY IS VOLTAGE AT THE BATTERY THAT YOU USE
>> FOR STARTING THE COACH. IF IT IS LESS THAN 12.25 VOLTS WITHOUT A LOAD,
>> CHARGE IT. UNTIL YOU ARE WORKING WITH A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY, YOU WILL BE
>> UNSUCCESSFUL AT TROUBLE SHOOTING ANY PART OF THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM. WHEN
>> YOU HAVE A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY WITH GOOD CLEAN CABLES CONNECTED
>> CORRECTLY, THEN COME BACK ON THE NET SO WE CAN HELP YOU.
>> JIM HUPY
>> SALEM, OR
>> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>>
>> On Aug 5, 2017 2:10 PM, "1104agm" wrote:
>>
>> I was trying to check out the isolator and tried to start the motor. I
>> found I am not getting any voltage down to the started when I try and start
>> the motor. Is there a relay in the dash or is the problem in the key or
>> shift level.
>>
>> I guess my RV has seen better days. When chasing the wire to the started I
>> found it need to be replaced as the insulation has started to come apart
>> under neath. Fortunately the wire is not touching anything.
>>
>> Art
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321661 is a reply to message #321660] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 17:05 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Either the start switch is not adjusted up and down the column correctly,
or the pot metal gears inside the ignition switch near the steering wheel
are partially broken. I would try the lower one first.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Aug 5, 2017 2:59 PM, "1104agm" wrote:
> I changed the tilt on the searing column and the started engaged. The
> column was full tilted up. Now it is straight Jim’s comment about the
> neutral rod made me try the column first.
>
> So what do I need to fix.
>
> Thanks
>
> Art
>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 4:41 PM, 1104agm wrote:
>>
>> I checked the battery voltage does not change when I try and start the
> motor. I even tried to add the house battery and no help. I am just glade
> I check to see if power was getting to the starter before I pulled the
> starter.
>>
>>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 4:30 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>>>
>>> Art, do not lose hope. Battery cables are a maintenance item. THE VERY,
>>> VERY FIRST THING YOU NEED TO VERIFY IS VOLTAGE AT THE BATTERY THAT YOU
> USE
>>> FOR STARTING THE COACH. IF IT IS LESS THAN 12.25 VOLTS WITHOUT A LOAD,
>>> CHARGE IT. UNTIL YOU ARE WORKING WITH A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY, YOU WILL
> BE
>>> UNSUCCESSFUL AT TROUBLE SHOOTING ANY PART OF THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM. WHEN
>>> YOU HAVE A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY WITH GOOD CLEAN CABLES CONNECTED
>>> CORRECTLY, THEN COME BACK ON THE NET SO WE CAN HELP YOU.
>>> JIM HUPY
>>> SALEM, OR
>>> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>>>
>>> On Aug 5, 2017 2:10 PM, "1104agm" wrote:
>>>
>>> I was trying to check out the isolator and tried to start the motor. I
>>> found I am not getting any voltage down to the started when I try and
> start
>>> the motor. Is there a relay in the dash or is the problem in the key or
>>> shift level.
>>>
>>> I guess my RV has seen better days. When chasing the wire to the
> started I
>>> found it need to be replaced as the insulation has started to come apart
>>> under neath. Fortunately the wire is not touching anything.
>>>
>>> Art
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321662 is a reply to message #321656] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 17:35 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Arthur Mansfield wrote on Sat, 05 August 2017 17:09I was trying to check out the isolator and tried to start the motor. I found I am not getting any voltage down to the started when I try and start the motor. Is there a relay in the dash or is the problem in the key or shift level.
I guess my RV has seen better days. When chasing the wire to the started I found it need to be replaced as the insulation has started to come apart under neath. Fortunately the wire is not touching anything.
Art
Art,
No GMC out here is new. Yes, some have seen better days, but with some love and care, these can be her best days yet.
For a "No Start", there are some prime candidates for investigation.
Assuming you have recently looked at all the connecting cables both power and ground between the battery (and the battery is good), but you cannot hear the starter solenoid "CLUNK", then lets do the easy stuff.
Down on the steering column is a strange "wrap around" switch. This is where the neutral safety switch is. Before you adjust it, try wiggling the shift lever. If that works and it does not work when the lever is in the detent, then adjust the switch. Try both at park and at neutral.
Next good bet is the ignition switch this is the long one on the bottom of the column and it can also be out of adjustment. If your ignition key has been behaving strangely, then this is a real good place to start. If all else fails, get out the wiring diagram and pull the connector off and jumper between the two that should crank. I was going to give you a hint, but I don't seem to have a wiring diagram in the house...
If none of those get you anything, then pop out the right wheel well and put your body in there and try jumping the starter at the connection on the solenoid. Nobody said that you can't have a bad starter.
You don't have a sigfile, but there is very possibly someone in striking range that could help you trouble shoot the system.
Let us know.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321667 is a reply to message #321664] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 17:59 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Read here
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6460/start_switch_talk.pdf
Click on block to read
On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 3:42 PM Matt Colie wrote:
> Arthur Mansfield wrote on Sat, 05 August 2017 17:58
>> I changed the tilt on the searing column and the started engaged. The
> column was full tilted up. Now it is straight Jim's comment about the
>> neutral rod made me try the column first.
>>
>> So what do I need to fix.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Art
>
> Well forget the other thing I wrote.
>
> That pretty much means that the ignition switch is out of adjustment. It
> has screws top and bottom. Put the column where you want it and slide it
> until it works. Unfortunately, this is a precursor to the ignition switch
> rack and pinion going south. Fortunately, those are parts in most store
> from car parts store, but it is a tedious job to replace. (Unless you can
> get to a rally with Chuck Boyd. He can do this so fast it is amazing.) .
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321670 is a reply to message #321661] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 18:18 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Your always welcome to call me as I have the luxury of spending my time on
he phone as we have Nick,Gary and Grace handling order desk.
On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 3:05 PM, James Hupy wrote:
> Either the start switch is not adjusted up and down the column correctly,
> or the pot metal gears inside the ignition switch near the steering wheel
> are partially broken. I would try the lower one first.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>
> On Aug 5, 2017 2:59 PM, "1104agm" wrote:
>
>> I changed the tilt on the searing column and the started engaged. The
>> column was full tilted up. Now it is straight Jim’s comment about the
>> neutral rod made me try the column first.
>>
>> So what do I need to fix.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Art
>>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 4:41 PM, 1104agm wrote:
>>>
>>> I checked the battery voltage does not change when I try and start the
>> motor. I even tried to add the house battery and no help. I am just
> glade
>> I check to see if power was getting to the starter before I pulled the
>> starter.
>>>
>>>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 4:30 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Art, do not lose hope. Battery cables are a maintenance item. THE
> VERY,
>>>> VERY FIRST THING YOU NEED TO VERIFY IS VOLTAGE AT THE BATTERY THAT YOU
>> USE
>>>> FOR STARTING THE COACH. IF IT IS LESS THAN 12.25 VOLTS WITHOUT A LOAD,
>>>> CHARGE IT. UNTIL YOU ARE WORKING WITH A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY, YOU
> WILL
>> BE
>>>> UNSUCCESSFUL AT TROUBLE SHOOTING ANY PART OF THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM.
> WHEN
>>>> YOU HAVE A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY WITH GOOD CLEAN CABLES CONNECTED
>>>> CORRECTLY, THEN COME BACK ON THE NET SO WE CAN HELP YOU.
>>>> JIM HUPY
>>>> SALEM, OR
>>>> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 5, 2017 2:10 PM, "1104agm" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I was trying to check out the isolator and tried to start the motor.
> I
>>>> found I am not getting any voltage down to the started when I try and
>> start
>>>> the motor. Is there a relay in the dash or is the problem in the key
> or
>>>> shift level.
>>>>
>>>> I guess my RV has seen better days. When chasing the wire to the
>> started I
>>>> found it need to be replaced as the insulation has started to come
> apart
>>>> under neath. Fortunately the wire is not touching anything.
>>>>
>>>> Art
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321676 is a reply to message #321670] |
Sat, 05 August 2017 21:01 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Gene, I like the link concept but I do know my MH well enough to under
stand where each of these photos is located. The graphics are great but I
need a caption so I can locate the connection.
Is it as simple as putting a switch between a breaker protected 12 volts
and the starting motor solenoid?
This way you should be able to crank the motor after RPM drops to 0 at 70
MPH without shifting.
Do you need another switch at is the equivalent of turning the key to the
run position?
On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Jim Kanomata wrote:
> Your always welcome to call me as I have the luxury of spending my time on
> he phone as we have Nick,Gary and Grace handling order desk.
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 3:05 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>
>> Either the start switch is not adjusted up and down the column correctly,
>> or the pot metal gears inside the ignition switch near the steering wheel
>> are partially broken. I would try the lower one first.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Or
>> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>>
>> On Aug 5, 2017 2:59 PM, "1104agm" wrote:
>>
>>> I changed the tilt on the searing column and the started engaged. The
>>> column was full tilted up. Now it is straight Jim’s comment about the
>>> neutral rod made me try the column first.
>>>
>>> So what do I need to fix.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Art
>>>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 4:41 PM, 1104agm wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I checked the battery voltage does not change when I try and start
> the
>>> motor. I even tried to add the house battery and no help. I am just
>> glade
>>> I check to see if power was getting to the starter before I pulled the
>>> starter.
>>>>
>>>> > On Aug 5, 2017, at 4:30 PM, James Hupy
> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Art, do not lose hope. Battery cables are a maintenance item. THE
>> VERY,
>>>> > VERY FIRST THING YOU NEED TO VERIFY IS VOLTAGE AT THE BATTERY THAT
> YOU
>>> USE
>>>> > FOR STARTING THE COACH. IF IT IS LESS THAN 12.25 VOLTS WITHOUT A
> LOAD,
>>>> > CHARGE IT. UNTIL YOU ARE WORKING WITH A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY, YOU
>> WILL
>>> BE
>>>> > UNSUCCESSFUL AT TROUBLE SHOOTING ANY PART OF THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM.
>> WHEN
>>>> > YOU HAVE A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY WITH GOOD CLEAN CABLES CONNECTED
>>>> > CORRECTLY, THEN COME BACK ON THE NET SO WE CAN HELP YOU.
>>>> > JIM HUPY
>>>> > SALEM, OR
>>>> > 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>>>> >
>>>> > On Aug 5, 2017 2:10 PM, "1104agm" wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I was trying to check out the isolator and tried to start the motor.
>> I
>>>> > found I am not getting any voltage down to the started when I try
> and
>>> start
>>>> > the motor. Is there a relay in the dash or is the problem in the
> key
>> or
>>>> > shift level.
>>>> >
>>>> > I guess my RV has seen better days. When chasing the wire to the
>>> started I
>>>> > found it need to be replaced as the insulation has started to come
>> apart
>>>> > under neath. Fortunately the wire is not touching anything.
>>>> >
>>>> > Art
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > GMCnet mailing list
>>>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > GMCnet mailing list
>>>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321688 is a reply to message #321676] |
Sun, 06 August 2017 09:02 |
|
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
johnd01 wrote on Sat, 05 August 2017 22:01Gene, I like the link concept but I do know my MH well enough to under stand where each of these photos is located. The graphics are great but I need a caption so I can locate the connection.
Is it as simple as putting a switch between a breaker protected 12 volts and the starting motor solenoid?
This way you should be able to crank the motor after RPM drops to 0 at 70 MPH without shifting.
Do you need another switch at is the equivalent of turning the key to the run position?
--
*John Phillips*
John,
Answers are as follows,
Yes,
Yes,
No.
Explanations:
It is that simple, it does however by-pass the built in safeties and the engine could be cranked and started with the coach in gear.
That is completely correct and this is also allows starting at times that might be ill advised.
If the coach is rolling or recently has been, the ignition switch should still be in the "Run" position.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321713 is a reply to message #321688] |
Sun, 06 August 2017 19:09 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I am finding several wires that go nowhere and terminals with no wires.
looks like lots of stuff has been modified. I bought a terminal to
reconnect the pressure switch on the end of the compressor tank only to
find out that a new pressure switch had been teed into the line at the
compressor. Only one of several loose ends.
On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
> johnd01 wrote on Sat, 05 August 2017 22:01
>> Gene, I like the link concept but I do know my MH well enough to under
> stand where each of these photos is located. The graphics are great but I
>> need a caption so I can locate the connection.
>>
>> Is it as simple as putting a switch between a breaker protected 12 volts
> and the starting motor solenoid?
>> This way you should be able to crank the motor after RPM drops to 0 at
> 70 MPH without shifting.
>> Do you need another switch at is the equivalent of turning the key to
> the run position?
>>
>> --
>> *John Phillips*
>
> John,
> Answers are as follows,
> Yes,
> Yes,
> No.
>
> Explanations:
> It is that simple, it does however by-pass the built in safeties and the
> engine could be cranked and started with the coach in gear.
> That is completely correct and this is also allows starting at times that
> might be ill advised.
> If the coach is rolling or recently has been, the ignition switch should
> still be in the "Run" position.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Power to Starter [message #321786 is a reply to message #321767] |
Mon, 07 August 2017 19:25 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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On the way to a rally I stopped at another GMCer's place. He was to accompany us the next morning in their coach on the 1000 mile drive. He got in the coach and it would not crank. Solenoid was not clicking. He said it had been doing this intermittently for the last year or two. We checked the voltage at the solenoid and nothing. So we cleaned every connection back to the battery. I installed tooth / star washers and anti-ox grease on the connections. While I was there I installed an second wire on the starter solenoid and ran it up near the battery. Now if during the trip he needed it, we could simply touch the wire to the positive terminal of the engine battery to get it to crank and be on our way.
Well it has been several years now and it has never failed again. So if you have an intermittent problem, clean all connections and think about installing an extra wire that can be removed later just in case you might need it in an emergency. A lot of these problems get blamed on the neutral safety switch. I am not convinced the problem is always the switch.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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I'll be checking the neutral switch and the pushrod when the mood strikes me - likely tomorrow.