Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple.
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319905 is a reply to message #319903] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 08:03   |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
man you like to spam that thing don't you?
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of gene Fisher
Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 7:22:28 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple.
Read here http://gmcmotorhome.info/wireless.html
You are here,sell the leftover parts and be normal.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 10:15 PM Bob Dunahugh wrote:
> I always have my bags turned off by the isolation valves when on the
> road. I just need to slightly tilt the drive in shower floor to drain. So
> two compressors, and 2 solenoid valves to low. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319906 is a reply to message #319905] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 08:08 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 6:04 AM Keith V wrote:
> man you like to spam that thing don't you?
>
WHAT DO you mean?
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of gene Fisher mr.erfisher@gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 7:22:28 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height
> sensors/valves anyway. Just simple.
>
> Read here http://gmcmotorhome.info/wireless.html
>
> You are here,sell the leftover parts and be normal.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 10:15 PM Bob Dunahugh wrote:
>
>> I always have my bags turned off by the isolation valves when on the
>> road. I just need to slightly tilt the drive in shower floor to drain.
> So
>> two compressors, and 2 solenoid valves to low. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319911 is a reply to message #319902] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 09:25 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bruce, I do have a dog in this hunt, as I make, install, service, and sell
wireless air systems. To test your beliefs, on a coach, find a couple of
250 pound guys to stand on the rear bumper with the key on. For a minute or
two. See what happens. That is 500 pounds on the end of a long lever. More
effect than a fill up of gasoline. Then report back.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 3, 2017 7:06 AM, "Bruce Hislop" wrote:
So my understanding of the wireless airbag control is that it will maintain
the pressure in the airbags to within +/- 3 psi of the set-point. So you
set your height, then stop and take on a load of fuel, the pressure
increases in the bags, so the controller will dump some air to maintain the
pressure.. and the coach drops in height.
Or you are going around a long curve at highway speed, coach tilts to one
side causing air pressure to increase on one bag and decrease on the
other... Controller corrects this....which causes the coach to lean the
outside even more.
What am I missing here?
Just my farm-boy mechanic way of see things.
--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319917 is a reply to message #319911] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 11:25 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
James Hupy wrote on Mon, 03 July 2017 10:25Bruce, I do have a dog in this hunt, as I make, install, service, and sell
wireless air systems. To test your beliefs, on a coach, find a couple of
250 pound guys to stand on the rear bumper with the key on. For a minute or
two. See what happens. That is 500 pounds on the end of a long lever. More
effect than a fill up of gasoline. Then report back.
Jim Hupy
Jim,
OK, I don't understand how the wireless system works. Since you "make, install, service, and sell wireless air systems", can you explain or give me a link for an explanation of how it works as compared to OEM?
Thanks,
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319921 is a reply to message #319917] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 11:51 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The wireless system has no ride height sensors, instead relying upon air
pressure monitoring in the bags. Plus or minus 3 psi. The remote control
and the air manifold each have wireless modems that communicate constantly
as long as the ignition key is in "on" or "acc" position. The user selects
the air pressure required to achieve correct ride height, and programs the
remote to reflect that pressure. That stores data in the remote. If the
bags gain or lose as little as 3 psi., the manifold responds by either
starting the built in ViAir 480 compressor and inflating the bags to preset
levels, or by releasing air through a exhaust port in the manifold until
preset pressure is achieved. There are two user selected presettings. One
for ride height, and one for lowering the rear of the coach to drain the
holding tanks. User can override all presettings for campsite leveling.
When ready to leave, all that needs to be done is to push the preset
button, and normal ride height is restored. If your coach is overloaded for
short periods, additional pressure can be added to both sides at the same
time in 10 psi steps with the push of a button as well.
THE ORIGINAL SYSTEMS ALL USE A TIME DELAY TO RESPOND TO WEIGHT
TRANSFER AND ROAD CONDITIONS, SOME AS LONG AS 30 SECONDS. But all things
said, they have a huge "null" point in their sensors. 5/8" in some cases.
So they miss a bunch of conditions that don't last that long.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 3, 2017 9:26 AM, "RJW" wrote:
> James Hupy wrote on Mon, 03 July 2017 10:25
>> Bruce, I do have a dog in this hunt, as I make, install, service, and
> sell
>> wireless air systems. To test your beliefs, on a coach, find a couple of
>> 250 pound guys to stand on the rear bumper with the key on. For a minute
> or
>> two. See what happens. That is 500 pounds on the end of a long lever.
> More
>> effect than a fill up of gasoline. Then report back.
>> Jim Hupy
>
> Jim,
> OK, I don't understand how the wireless system works. Since you "make,
> install, service, and sell wireless air systems", can you explain or give
> me a
> link for an explanation of how it works as compared to OEM?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Richard
> 76 Palm Beach
> SE Michigan
> www.PalmBeachGMC.com
>
>
> Coop Roller Cam 455, Howell TBI + EBL, 3.42 FD, Quadra Bag, Macerator,
> Manny Tranny etc.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319926 is a reply to message #319911] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 13:10 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
James Hupy wrote on Mon, 03 July 2017 10:25Bruce, I do have a dog in this hunt, as I make, install, service, and sell wireless air systems. To test your beliefs, on a coach, find a couple of 250 pound guys to stand on the rear bumper with the key on. For a minute or two. See what happens. That is 500 pounds on the end of a long lever. More effect than a fill up of gasoline. Then report back.
Jim Hupy
Jim,
Interesting that you use this as an example.
If I take on fuel and leave the auxiliary electrics powered up, at some time during fueling the suspension compressor will probably start. If I leave it off, as soon as we power up to pull off the pump, the compressor will start.
If we are stopped, like waiting for a train (a common event here) and one of us gets up and walks to the back, the compressor will probably start.
I am certain that much of this is due to the fact that Chaumière is a 9500# coach and not a 12000# coach that so many are.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319931 is a reply to message #319902] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 15:07 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well help me along here. When you make a long right turn, what do the pressures do? Having driven both of min e with the bags shut off due to leaks, I like the way they drive when the system is working properly, and the bubble in my inclinometer wanders around the middle as opposed to favoring one side or the other when things aren't flat.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319933 is a reply to message #319931] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 15:36 |
Justin Brady
Messages: 769
Registered: April 2015
Location: Bell Buckle, TN
Karma: 11
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Making a long right turn the driver bag pressure will increase due to weight transfer, the passenger bag pressure will decrease for the same reason.
With my setup, nothing happens here other that the coach leans because it doesn't "auto correct"
The wireless system in theory will add air to the driver bag and pull air out of the passenger bag making the lean worse than before. Now whether or not this would be noticeable I can't tell you.
This is the primary reason I didn't do the wireless setup, that and I have never had much luck with airlift's chinese parts.
Just my opinions, not meant to anger anyone.
IMHO the wireless system (and my initial setup) relies on the wrong parameter. The PSI of the bag is irrelevant, the height of each side of the coach is the relevant factor.
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319934 is a reply to message #319931] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 15:44 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Pressures don't do anything that I can tell. But, I have a late 78 Royale.
Earlier coaches may do something. I have recently replaced my shocks,
KYB's, and rebuilt the front suspension. Control arms have urethane lower
bushings, as well as forward upper control arms. The eccentric rear uppers
are not urethane, but are new. I6" Eagle alloy hub centric wheels along
with B.F. Goodrich tires load range E. 60 psi in the front, 55 in the rear
4. My coach runs light compared to some. No wig wag or rut wander to speak
of, but, cross winds will affect it. If I ever get caught up with
customer's coaches, I will finish my suspension upgrades. 1 ton up front. 6
wheel disc brakes, Quadra bags, and sway bar reaction arms in the rear.
That ought to remedy the cross wind effects as well as improve the brakes.
Ah well, they are never done, are they?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 3, 2017 1:22 PM, "Johnny Bridges via Gmclist" <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Well help me along here. When you make a long right turn, what do the
> pressures do? Having driven both of min e with the bags shut off due to
> leaks,
> I like the way they drive when the system is working properly, and the
> bubble in my inclinometer wanders around the middle as opposed to favoring
> one
> side or the other when things aren't flat.
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319935 is a reply to message #319902] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 15:51 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
When your ride height sensors dictate that your ride height is low, or
high, WHAT CORRECTIVE ACTION MITIGATES THAT? Could it be, that it adds air
pressure to the bags, or lets a bit out? And, how quickly does it react to
do that? Half a minute or so, maybe? Just wondering.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 3, 2017 1:44 PM, "James Hupy" wrote:
Pressures don't do anything that I can tell. But, I have a late 78 Royale.
Earlier coaches may do something. I have recently replaced my shocks,
KYB's, and rebuilt the front suspension. Control arms have urethane lower
bushings, as well as forward upper control arms. The eccentric rear uppers
are not urethane, but are new. I6" Eagle alloy hub centric wheels along
with B.F. Goodrich tires load range E. 60 psi in the front, 55 in the rear
4. My coach runs light compared to some. No wig wag or rut wander to speak
of, but, cross winds will affect it. If I ever get caught up with
customer's coaches, I will finish my suspension upgrades. 1 ton up front. 6
wheel disc brakes, Quadra bags, and sway bar reaction arms in the rear.
That ought to remedy the cross wind effects as well as improve the brakes.
Ah well, they are never done, are they?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 3, 2017 1:22 PM, "Johnny Bridges via Gmclist" <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Well help me along here. When you make a long right turn, what do the
> pressures do? Having driven both of min e with the bags shut off due to
> leaks,
> I like the way they drive when the system is working properly, and the
> bubble in my inclinometer wanders around the middle as opposed to favoring
> one
> side or the other when things aren't flat.
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319939 is a reply to message #319902] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 20:05 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Now you've added another parameter. I put reaction arms on both coaches and was/am greatly impressed with the better stopping distance. I drve a couach with discs on the back and could tell no difference, so I skipped them. Both have sway bars, but they're normal ones. What's a 'reaction arm sway bar' please?
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319940 is a reply to message #319935] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 20:36 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
G'day,
Regarding the time delay for the Power-Level system see:
MM X-7525 / Section 4 - Rear Suspension / Pages 4-25 & 4-26 - TIME DELAY CHECK
The Electro-Level system uses the same height control valves therefore the delay is the same.
For Electro-Level II see:
MM X-77725 / Section 4 - Rear Suspension / Pages 4B-3, 4B-4 & 4B-5 ELECTRONIC HEIGHT SENSOR
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Tuesday, July 4, 2017 6:51 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple.
When your ride height sensors dictate that your ride height is low, or
high, WHAT CORRECTIVE ACTION MITIGATES THAT? Could it be, that it adds air
pressure to the bags, or lets a bit out? And, how quickly does it react to
do that? Half a minute or so, maybe? Just wondering.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 3, 2017 1:44 PM, "James Hupy" wrote:
Pressures don't do anything that I can tell. But, I have a late 78 Royale.
Earlier coaches may do something. I have recently replaced my shocks,
KYB's, and rebuilt the front suspension. Control arms have urethane lower
bushings, as well as forward upper control arms. The eccentric rear uppers
are not urethane, but are new. I6" Eagle alloy hub centric wheels along
with B.F. Goodrich tires load range E. 60 psi in the front, 55 in the rear
4. My coach runs light compared to some. No wig wag or rut wander to speak
of, but, cross winds will affect it. If I ever get caught up with
customer's coaches, I will finish my suspension upgrades. 1 ton up front. 6
wheel disc brakes, Quadra bags, and sway bar reaction arms in the rear.
That ought to remedy the cross wind effects as well as improve the brakes.
Ah well, they are never done, are they?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 3, 2017 1:22 PM, "Johnny Bridges via Gmclist" <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Well help me along here. When you make a long right turn, what do the
> pressures do? Having driven both of min e with the bags shut off due to
> leaks,
> I like the way they drive when the system is working properly, and the
> bubble in my inclinometer wanders around the middle as opposed to favoring
> one
> side or the other when things aren't flat.
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple. [message #319941 is a reply to message #319939] |
Mon, 03 July 2017 20:34 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Johnny, some reaction arm brakes have their terminal point at the bogie
boxes. There is another version that terminates onto a torsion bar
(sway bar) that mounts on the frame and crosses under the coach to the
bogie on the other side of the coach. There are two bars fitted, one for
the forward bogie, and one for the rear bogie. They are dual purpose.
Reaction arms for the brakes, and sway bars for the rear. Some owners don't
like rear sway bars, some do. I think that they stiffen up the ride a bit,
but improve the handling in crosswinds, which is a problem in the wide open
spaces in the West.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 3, 2017 6:06 PM, "Johnny Bridges via Gmclist" <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Now you've added another parameter. I put reaction arms on both coaches
> and was/am greatly impressed with the better stopping distance. I drve a
> couach with discs on the back and could tell no difference, so I skipped
> them. Both have sway bars, but they're normal ones. What's a 'reaction arm
> sway bar' please?
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Mon Nov 04 13:12:48 CST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02781 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
