Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] White knuckle ride
| [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #318612] |
Tue, 06 June 2017 22:07  |
glwgmc
Messages: 1014
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 10
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Sorry but I no longer sell the alignment kits. Some of the clubs have them for members to use
Jerry Work
Kerby, OR
..........:
Thanks Ken. I have downloaded his alignment instructions and the powerpoint :). I am actually considering ordering his alignment kit.
........:::
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Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #318621 is a reply to message #318612] |
Wed, 07 June 2017 01:44  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Sorry to learn that Jerry's no longer selling alignment jigs.
An alternative is to make a set like mine -- very easy and, if carefully
made, very accurate:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5634-wheel-alignment-jigs.html
The album makes more sense viewed last-to-first.
The Craftsman digital laser level is still advertised, as is one at Harbor
Freight, and a couple of others. While that's the most convenient device,
IMHO, it would be feasible to use separate level and laser.
Ken H
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:07 PM, Gerald Work wrote:
> Sorry but I no longer sell the alignment kits. Some of the clubs have them
> for members to use
>
> Jerry Work
> Kerby, OR
> ..........:
> Thanks Ken. I have downloaded his alignment instructions and the
> powerpoint :). I am actually considering ordering his alignment kit.
> ........:::
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #318624 is a reply to message #318621] |
Wed, 07 June 2017 04:36 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I have a couple of laser levels that I ordered off of ebay. Unfortunately I do not remember the brand but I'm sure it began with "made in China". I copied Ken's fixtures twice. The first set I made were the wrong sizes. I also slotted the boltholes on the vertical tube so it will work on 15", 16", and 17" inch wheels.
Note: Alcoa 16" and Eagle 16" are slightly different in diameter where the horizontal bolts touch the wheel so a slotted hole is recommended.
To check that the fixtures and laser level are still in calibration vertically, I install them and read the angle, then I turn them over read it again. It should read the same. My laser level projects a horizontal and a vertical line so I can check the horizontal calibration by projecting the vertical line on the ground. Then I turn the fixtures over and check that the laser hits the same spot.
Once assembled, they should not change but I disassemble mine for storage. So I recheck them every time. I do not use the strings like Ken H. (His way may be more accurate.) I use the same fixtures and the laser or sometimes a 5 foot straight edge across the pair of wheels to accomplish the same thing. I have never found a rear wheel out of spec on toe. It is always the middle wheel and usually on the right side.
One other thing. I use the smallest bungees that you can find to attach the fixture to the wheel. The allows me to mount these on different style wheels. If the bungee is too short for the attachment, simply use 2 hooked together.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #318662 is a reply to message #318631] |
Wed, 07 June 2017 15:02 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jerry's alignment process is the good stuff, but if you want to do a low tech front end alignment, try this:
http://www.machinesoflovinggrace.net/gmc/frontend/index.php?p=Alignment
Just the basics: first get the height all around as close to correct as you can get it. This will
require numerous adjustments because every time you adjust one corner, it'll change the others.
Always measure after driving a few miles and then parking on the smoothest flattest most level piece of concrete you can find.
Very few alignment shops will do this for you, so it pays to get it right yourself first.
Very important: if you do get a tool for adjusting the front ride height, make sure you start by first setting the
pork chop bolts to the same number of turns on both sides if they're not already set that way (ie, same number of threads showing bolts that are the same length),
then drive it and re-measure. If the pork chop bolts are too far off from each other, you will get very uneven weight loading
and it will impact the handling badly (maybe even dangerously overloading one side). It will also make it darn
near impossible to get consistent ride height readings because of the dynamic load imbalance (ask me how I know...).
Using that as your starting point, adjust both sides evenly up or down, and only then, tweak one side if needed.
The bolt settings will usually not be far off from each other if the weight loading and torsion bars are good.
Set the caster by adjusting the cam bolts as described. For simplicity, you can skip measuring the side-to-side caster at this point and
just go for maximum caster; you can revisit it later if necessary, but I didn't need to. After that, adjust camber, and then toe.
When adjusting toe, try to keep both tie rods adjusted close to the same length. If you don't have the wheels on a slick surface,
adjust toe a little bit, move the coach, and then re-measure. Otherwise, the tires stick and you'll overshoot on your adjustment.
You can then adjust the steering wheel centering by turning both tie roads the same way. (Centering the steering box is another important one,
and not very difficult to do on the coach. That's covered elsewhere by Alex Ferrara).
Drive it and re-check everything. Repeat as needed.
I used this process and it worked surprisingly well. We recently took it to an alignment shop that's done a lot of GMCs
to finally get it "right". The result?: noticeably WORSE handling than my low tech job.
So, it ain't rocket science. With patience, care, and a few basic tools, you can certainly do this yourself.
jwid,
Karen
1975 26'
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #318686 is a reply to message #318662] |
Wed, 07 June 2017 18:33 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Hey kid. Did you go visit
Katilin at mannys yet
You will like her
On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:03 PM KB wrote:
> Jerry's alignment process is the good stuff, but if you want to do a low
> tech front end alignment, try this:
> http://www.machinesoflovinggrace.net/gmc/frontend/index.php?p=Alignment
>
> Just the basics: first get the height all around as close to correct as
> you can get it. This will
> require numerous adjustments because every time you adjust one corner,
> it'll change the others.
> Always measure after driving a few miles and then parking on the smoothest
> flattest most level piece of concrete you can find.
> Very few alignment shops will do this for you, so it pays to get it right
> yourself first.
>
> Very important: if you do get a tool for adjusting the front ride height,
> make sure you start by first setting the
> pork chop bolts to the same number of turns on both sides if they're not
> already set that way (ie, same number of threads showing bolts that are the
> same length),
> then drive it and re-measure. If the pork chop bolts are too far off from
> each other, you will get very uneven weight loading
> and it will impact the handling badly (maybe even dangerously overloading
> one side). It will also make it darn
> near impossible to get consistent ride height readings because of the
> dynamic load imbalance (ask me how I know...).
> Using that as your starting point, adjust both sides evenly up or down,
> and only then, tweak one side if needed.
> The bolt settings will usually not be far off from each other if the
> weight loading and torsion bars are good.
>
> Set the caster by adjusting the cam bolts as described. For simplicity,
> you can skip measuring the side-to-side caster at this point and
> just go for maximum caster; you can revisit it later if necessary, but I
> didn't need to. After that, adjust camber, and then toe.
> When adjusting toe, try to keep both tie rods adjusted close to the same
> length. If you don't have the wheels on a slick surface,
> adjust toe a little bit, move the coach, and then re-measure. Otherwise,
> the tires stick and you'll overshoot on your adjustment.
>
> You can then adjust the steering wheel centering by turning both tie roads
> the same way. (Centering the steering box is another important one,
> and not very difficult to do on the coach. That's covered elsewhere by
> Alex Ferrara).
>
> Drive it and re-check everything. Repeat as needed.
>
> I used this process and it worked surprisingly well. We recently took it
> to an alignment shop that's done a lot of GMCs
> to finally get it "right". The result?: noticeably WORSE handling than
> my low tech job.
>
> So, it ain't rocket science. With patience, care, and a few basic tools,
> you can certainly do this yourself.
>
> jwid,
> Karen
> 1975 26'
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #318697 is a reply to message #318662] |
Wed, 07 June 2017 23:01 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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KB wrote on Wed, 07 June 2017 13:02Jerry's alignment process is the good stuff, but if you want to do a low tech front end alignment, try this:
http://www.machinesoflovinggrace.net/gmc/frontend/index.php?p=Alignment
Just the basics: first get the height all around as close to correct as you can get it. This will
require numerous adjustments because every time you adjust one corner, it'll change the others.
Always measure after driving a few miles and then parking on the smoothest flattest most level piece of concrete you can find.
Very few alignment shops will do this for you, so it pays to get it right yourself first.
Very important: if you do get a tool for adjusting the front ride height, make sure you start by first setting the
pork chop bolts to the same number of turns on both sides if they're not already set that way (ie, same number of threads showing bolts that are the same length),
then drive it and re-measure. If the pork chop bolts are too far off from each other, you will get very uneven weight loading
and it will impact the handling badly (maybe even dangerously overloading one side). It will also make it darn
near impossible to get consistent ride height readings because of the dynamic load imbalance (ask me how I know...).
Using that as your starting point, adjust both sides evenly up or down, and only then, tweak one side if needed.
The bolt settings will usually not be far off from each other if the weight loading and torsion bars are good.
Set the caster by adjusting the cam bolts as described. For simplicity, you can skip measuring the side-to-side caster at this point and
just go for maximum caster; you can revisit it later if necessary, but I didn't need to. After that, adjust camber, and then toe.
When adjusting toe, try to keep both tie rods adjusted close to the same length. If you don't have the wheels on a slick surface,
adjust toe a little bit, move the coach, and then re-measure. Otherwise, the tires stick and you'll overshoot on your adjustment.
You can then adjust the steering wheel centering by turning both tie roads the same way. (Centering the steering box is another important one,
and not very difficult to do on the coach. That's covered elsewhere by Alex Ferrara).
Drive it and re-check everything. Repeat as needed.
I used this process and it worked surprisingly well. We recently took it to an alignment shop that's done a lot of GMCs
to finally get it "right". The result?: noticeably WORSE handling than my low tech job.
So, it ain't rocket science. With patience, care, and a few basic tools, you can certainly do this yourself.
jwid,
Karen
1975 26'
Thanks Karen. Low tech usually works for me, if it works. Seems like it has for you so definitely worth a try.
I will start with getting my rear height even and go from there. I will look closely at this technique and get my head wrapped around it all. Lots to look at and learn yet.
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #320120 is a reply to message #318612] |
Fri, 07 July 2017 17:49 |
Deb
Messages: 349
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Just got back from our local big rig / RV tire shop. The fellow there has done a fair bit of work on these over the years. He knows of 2 other coaches in our neck of the woods apparently!
We took Li'l Sister for a run & he checked the front end out for me. Was really impressed with what he saw underneath!. My "wander" issue is 2-fold.
1. The steering box (which I suspected after a lot of reading and listening) has some play at the top end. It is centred, but a bit sloppy. So I will track down a rebuilt steering gear for her
2. The steering was "tight" - he did 2 things - backed off the steering box adjustment screw (likely a previous owner had tried to adjust the play and gone too far - and it didn't work anyway!) and the passenger side idler arm is dry and grabbing (it creaked when you turned the wheels) - he loosened the bolt up a hair. I will replace that with one that can be greased (the driver side is new and can be lubed)
Between those 2 things, although I still have that minor play in the wheel, I now have responsive steering. The tires were neither returning properly after a turn nor responding to minor adjustments in the steering. Resulted in over-correcting no matter what i tried.
He said the alignment itself is just fine - tracks nice and true - and until I get a new idler arm, he said he would leave it alone.
The ride back from the shop was MUCH more relaxed. Should be wonderful once I get a new steering box in there.
Now to get the Onan running. Back to chat to Jim K.
BTW, it was fun listening to him describe the coach to the 23 yr old kid behind the counter, who had never even heard of a Toronado!
Deb McWade
Logan Lake, BC, CAN
GMC Alumnus
It's Bigger on the Inside!
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #320139 is a reply to message #320120] |
Fri, 07 July 2017 23:07 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Let us discuss the steering and Onan and get you rolling.
Give me a call.
On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Deb McWade wrote:
> Just got back from our local big rig / RV tire shop. The fellow there has
> done a fair bit of work on these over the years. He knows of 2 other
> coaches in our neck of the woods apparently!
>
> We took Li'l Sister for a run & he checked the front end out for me. Was
> really impressed with what he saw underneath!. My "wander" issue is
> 2-fold.
>
> 1. The steering box (which I suspected after a lot of reading and
> listening) has some play at the top end. It is centred, but a bit sloppy.
> So I
> will track down a rebuilt steering gear for her
>
> 2. The steering was "tight" - he did 2 things - backed off the steering
> box adjustment screw (likely a previous owner had tried to adjust the play
> and
> gone too far - and it didn't work anyway!) and the passenger side idler
> arm is dry and grabbing (it creaked when you turned the wheels) - he
> loosened
> the bolt up a hair. I will replace that with one that can be greased (the
> driver side is new and can be lubed)
>
> Between those 2 things, although I still have that minor play in the
> wheel, I now have responsive steering. The tires were neither returning
> properly
> after a turn nor responding to minor adjustments in the steering.
> Resulted in over-correcting no matter what i tried.
> He said the alignment itself is just fine - tracks nice and true - and
> until I get a new idler arm, he said he would leave it alone.
>
> The ride back from the shop was MUCH more relaxed. Should be wonderful
> once I get a new steering box in there.
>
> Now to get the Onan running. Back to chat to Jim K.
>
> BTW, it was fun listening to him describe the coach to the 23 yr old kid
> behind the counter, who had never even heard of a Toronado!
> --
> Li'l Sister
> '77 Kingsley, 403, with a few mods;
> TZE167V101404
> It's Bigger on the Inside!
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Sorry to hear your kit is no longer available Jerry. 
