Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » White knuckle ride (1st time driving the GMC )
| White knuckle ride [message #317957] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 08:53  |
Glenbrook75
Messages: 46
Registered: January 2017
Location: Dauphin, Manitoba
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Well after a few dollars and a few months of work the Coach was safety certified and ready to make the 250km drive home. I had replaced all the oversized 9.50 x 16.5 tires with new 8.75 x 16.5, new cv boots, new upper ball joints, new rear bearings and seals, all the fluids checked and replaced everything checked that we could think of including some old school wheel alignment other then some play in the steering I was ready. It drove around town like a dream I could not believe how easily it handle other then the steering feeling looser than my Rav 4. So we hit the highway air ride set to travel. Well it was like the front end was floating in the air like when you overload a truck and the front end lifts, the steering so loose that the I was constantly moving the wheel side to side and the coach was all over the road. Best I coul d manage was 40 miles an hr. after 20 miles or so I decide to check the ride height and the rear looked a little high and I had read that on the highway the rear was actually supposed to be lower than front a bit. So I dropped the rear as low as seemed ok and tried again. The steering firmed up a bit and on nice smooth road I was able to get her to 50 miles/hr then we hit an older portion of the road with lots of ruts and bumps and it was back to being all over the road. We made our two hr drive in 4 1/2 hrs and pulled into the driveway with a feeling of relieve and my wife looked at me and said I will never get in this thing again until u fix it. So I need help where do I begin. We tightened everything possible in steering colum cleaned and regressed it with a new lower boot before the trip. So is it time to rebuild it all?
Terry
75 Glenbrook
Dauphin, Manitoba
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| Re: White knuckle ride [message #317958 is a reply to message #317957] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 09:27  |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Woo hoo you made it! After a dump truck nearly windswept me off a downhill on my maiden voyage, my wife nearly wrote ours off as well...
Good news is that is not normal, and with time and attention (and dollars) it can be fixed.
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_Steering_Inspection_Guide.pdf
The best, first thing I did was a new steering damper. Less than $40 and until I had time, knowledge and experience (or access to those who do) it helped the other loose parts not get so wonky.
Not sure how much learning/reading you have already done. Download the manuals off bdub's site. Talk to Alex Ferrara, Dave Lenzi, either of the Jims. Get the parts interchange from GMCMI site.
Camp in the driveway to test house systems and have fun. If it will go 40 mph, find a close campground and go camping locally! Enjoy what does work while you get it the way you want it.
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #317959 is a reply to message #317957] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 09:23 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Start with steering parts--particularly tie-rod ends and the things they
attack to. While parked, have your wife wiggle the steering wheel back and
forth through its slack. If any of those parts are loose, you'll be able to
see (or feel) differential movement. That has to be fixed first, if there
is any looseness.
Then, do an alignment, including a careful check of ride height, front and
rear. There should be no toe-out at all, but front drivers don't want
toe-in, either. If you set it for zero toe-in, and those tie rods or other
parts are loose, it will toe out on the road, creating exactly what you
describe. That's why the loose parts have to be replaced first. You can't
compensate for loose parts with toe-in, or you'll get more torque steer
with front drive. Toe-out, whatever is causing it, seems a likely culprit.
You probably already checked your control-arm bushings if you replaced ball
joints.
If all that is okay, check your steering gearbox, which to my thinking has
a subtler effect. A loose box can allow play, but not so much wild
self-steering as you describe.
Another relative subtlety: what are your tire pressures?
Loose rear bogies sometimes get blamed, but I think those are way down on
the list.
Rick "eventually, it will all get replaced or rebuilt, but first things
first" Denney
On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:54 AM Terry wrote:
> Well after a few dollars and a few months of work the Coach was safety
> certified and ready to make the 250km drive home. I had replaced all the
> oversized 9.50 x 16.5 tires with new 8.75 x 16.5, new cv boots, new upper
> ball joints, new rear bearings and seals, all the fluids checked and
> replaced everything checked that we could think of including some old
> school wheel alignment other then some play in the steering I was ready. It
> drove around town like a dream I could not believe how easily it handle
> other then the steering feeling looser than my Rav 4. So we hit the highway
> air ride set to travel. Well it was like the front end was floating in the
> air like when you overload a truck and the front end lifts, the steering so
> loose that the I was constantly moving the wheel side to side and the
> coach was all over the road. Best I coul d manage was 40 miles an hr. after
> 20
> miles or so I decide to check the ride height and the rear looked a little
> high and I had read that on the highway the rear was actually supposed to
> be lower than front a bit. So I dropped the rear as low as seemed ok and
> tried again. The steering firmed up a bit and on nice smooth road I was able
> to get her to 50 miles/hr then we hit an older portion of the road with
> lots of ruts and bumps and it was back to being all over the road. We made
> our
> two hr drive in 4 1/2 hrs and pulled into the driveway with a feeling of
> relieve and my wife looked at me and said I will never get in this thing
> again until u fix it. So I need help where do I begin. We tightened
> everything possible in steering colum cleaned and regressed it with a new
> lower
> boot before the trip. So is it time to rebuild it all?
> --
> Terry
> 75 Glenbrook
> Dauphin, Manitoba
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #317960 is a reply to message #317959] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 09:25 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Dang it: attack = attach, plus all the other typos you'll have to figure
out.
Rick "doggone iPhone" Denney
On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:23 AM Richard Denney wrote:
> Start with steering parts--particularly tie-rod ends and the things they
> attack to. While parked, have your wife wiggle the steering wheel back and
> forth through its slack. If any of those parts are loose, you'll be able to
> see (or feel) differential movement. That has to be fixed first, if there
> is any looseness.
>
> Then, do an alignment, including a careful check of ride height, front and
> rear. There should be no toe-out at all, but front drivers don't want
> toe-in, either. If you set it for zero toe-in, and those tie rods or other
> parts are loose, it will toe out on the road, creating exactly what you
> describe. That's why the loose parts have to be replaced first. You can't
> compensate for loose parts with toe-in, or you'll get more torque steer
> with front drive. Toe-out, whatever is causing it, seems a likely culprit.
>
> You probably already checked your control-arm bushings if you replaced
> ball joints.
>
> If all that is okay, check your steering gearbox, which to my thinking has
> a subtler effect. A loose box can allow play, but not so much wild
> self-steering as you describe.
>
> Another relative subtlety: what are your tire pressures?
>
> Loose rear bogies sometimes get blamed, but I think those are way down on
> the list.
>
> Rick "eventually, it will all get replaced or rebuilt, but first things
> first" Denney
>
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:54 AM Terry wrote:
>
>> Well after a few dollars and a few months of work the Coach was safety
>> certified and ready to make the 250km drive home. I had replaced all the
>> oversized 9.50 x 16.5 tires with new 8.75 x 16.5, new cv boots, new
>> upper ball joints, new rear bearings and seals, all the fluids checked and
>> replaced everything checked that we could think of including some old
>> school wheel alignment other then some play in the steering I was ready. It
>> drove around town like a dream I could not believe how easily it handle
>> other then the steering feeling looser than my Rav 4. So we hit the highway
>> air ride set to travel. Well it was like the front end was floating in
>> the air like when you overload a truck and the front end lifts, the
>> steering so
>> loose that the I was constantly moving the wheel side to side and the
>> coach was all over the road. Best I coul d manage was 40 miles an hr. after
>> 20
>> miles or so I decide to check the ride height and the rear looked a
>> little high and I had read that on the highway the rear was actually
>> supposed to
>> be lower than front a bit. So I dropped the rear as low as seemed ok and
>> tried again. The steering firmed up a bit and on nice smooth road I was able
>> to get her to 50 miles/hr then we hit an older portion of the road with
>> lots of ruts and bumps and it was back to being all over the road. We made
>> our
>> two hr drive in 4 1/2 hrs and pulled into the driveway with a feeling of
>> relieve and my wife looked at me and said I will never get in this thing
>> again until u fix it. So I need help where do I begin. We tightened
>> everything possible in steering colum cleaned and regressed it with a new
>> lower
>> boot before the trip. So is it time to rebuild it all?
>> --
>> Terry
>> 75 Glenbrook
>> Dauphin, Manitoba
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Rick Denney
> 73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
> Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: White knuckle ride [message #317962 is a reply to message #317957] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 09:31 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Nope just find the bad parts. Then set tire pressure, check ride heights and set alignment to zero camber, as much equal caster you can get without camber going negative, ( typically about 4 degrees) then set toe to zero with steering box on center. Did you follow the Rob Mueller writeup on checking front end? Also go to Thedovetailjoint.com and read Jerry Work's writeup on alignment.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #317964 is a reply to message #317958] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 09:51 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Terry,
Along with the procedure below you need to set the steering box on center
with the wheels going straight ahead.
From what I learned about this from Dave Lenzi and Alex Ferrara I wrote a
procedure to do this, It worked fine on two GMC's here in Australia but when
I sent it to A GMCer in the USA it had problems. I have not had the time to
re-write the procedure to date.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tyler
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 12:28 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride
Woo hoo you made it! After a dump truck nearly windswept me off a downhill
on my maiden voyage, my wife nearly wrote ours off as well...
Good news is that is not normal, and with time and attention (and dollars)
it can be fixed.
http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_Steering_Inspection_Guide.pdf
The best, first thing I did was a new steering damper. Less than $40 and
until I had time, knowledge and experience (or access to those who do) it
helped the other loose parts not get so wonky.
Not sure how much learning/reading you have already done. Download the
manuals off bdub's site. Talk to Alex Ferrara, Dave Lenzi, either of the
Jims.
Get the parts interchange from GMCMI site.
Camp in the driveway to test house systems and have fun. If it will go 40
mph, find a close campground and go camping locally! Enjoy what does work
while you get it the way you want it.
--
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: White knuckle ride [message #317965 is a reply to message #317957] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 10:05 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Go through the mueller steering check.
But start by really checking the front end alinement, but you need guidance on that. Ride height has alot to donwith it, and most shops do nit understand that.
You are describing a situation that seems really excessive. Make sure ride height is even left to right and you are sitting a little lower in the rear then the front.
Take some pictures of the steering box and send to alex. There is standard looseness, and the what you have there is something way wrong. My guess is way off on the alinement since you have new front end parts.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #317966 is a reply to message #317964] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 10:16 |
Mike Kelley
Messages: 467
Registered: February 2017
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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Talk to Alex Ferrara - The GMC Steering Expert out of Florida - He fixed two of my GMC's and it improved the steering, ride, and handling significantly.
Thanks Alex,
Mike/The Corvair a holic
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 24, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Rob Mueller wrote:
>
> Terry,
>
> Along with the procedure below you need to set the steering box on center
> with the wheels going straight ahead.
>
> From what I learned about this from Dave Lenzi and Alex Ferrara I wrote a
> procedure to do this, It worked fine on two GMC's here in Australia but when
> I sent it to A GMCer in the USA it had problems. I have not had the time to
> re-write the procedure to date.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tyler
> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 12:28 AM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride
>
> Woo hoo you made it! After a dump truck nearly windswept me off a downhill
> on my maiden voyage, my wife nearly wrote ours off as well...
>
> Good news is that is not normal, and with time and attention (and dollars)
> it can be fixed.
>
> http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_Steering_Inspection_Guide.pdf
>
> The best, first thing I did was a new steering damper. Less than $40 and
> until I had time, knowledge and experience (or access to those who do) it
> helped the other loose parts not get so wonky.
>
> Not sure how much learning/reading you have already done. Download the
> manuals off bdub's site. Talk to Alex Ferrara, Dave Lenzi, either of the
> Jims.
> Get the parts interchange from GMCMI site.
>
> Camp in the driveway to test house systems and have fun. If it will go 40
> mph, find a close campground and go camping locally! Enjoy what does work
> while you get it the way you want it.
> --
> 1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
> Raleigh, NC
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #317967 is a reply to message #317965] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 10:29 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I agree with Jon's guess.
Rob's write-up is good for checking everything, but it doesn't prioritize
things that might be wrong with these particular symptoms. Wild
self-steering is probably not looseness in the steering gear box, and even
if the gear box isn't properly centered, it will tend to drift when hands
off, not self-steer in random directions.
Caster affects the natural tendency to remain centered, and that's the
reason replacements use offset bushings. But even the stock setup, which is
quite limited in its ability to adjust caster, shouldn't make the knuckles
go white.
But toe-out will definitely cause steering instability, and it will get
worse on coast down or hard braking. Depending on what is causing the
toe-out, acceleration might actually improve it a bit. Ride height also
affects stability, but to a lesser extent. Excessive tire pressures make
any steering problem more noticeable, too.
So, focus on those things that cause toe-out first, which is tie-rod ends
first and foremost, bushings to a lesser extent, and just plain bad
alignment. Use Rob's procedures for checking for looseness in those parts.
Loose tie-rod ends will make alignment impossible, so that has to be fixed
before an alignment.
Rick "cause and effect" Denney
On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Jon Roche wrote:
> Go through the mueller steering check.
>
> But start by really checking the front end alinement, but you need
> guidance on that. Ride height has alot to donwith it, and most shops do nit
> understand that.
>
> You are describing a situation that seems really excessive. Make sure
> ride height is even left to right and you are sitting a little lower in the
> rear then the front.
>
> Take some pictures of the steering box and send to alex. There is
> standard looseness, and the what you have there is something way wrong.
> My guess
> is way off on the alinement since you have new front end parts.
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: White knuckle ride [message #317973 is a reply to message #317957] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 11:20 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Terry
Start simple - what were your tire pressures?
Dennis
Glenbrook75 wrote on Wed, 24 May 2017 08:53Well after a few dollars and a few months of work the Coach was safety certified and ready to make the 250km drive home. I had replaced all the oversized 9.50 x 16.5 tires with new 8.75 x 16.5, new cv boots, new upper ball joints, new rear bearings and seals, all the fluids checked and replaced everything checked that we could think of including some old school wheel alignment other then some play in the steering I was ready. It drove around town like a dream I could not believe how easily it handle other then the steering feeling looser than my Rav 4. So we hit the highway air ride set to travel. Well it was like the front end was floating in the air like when you overload a truck and the front end lifts, the steering so loose that the I was constantly moving the wheel side to side and the coach was all over the road. Best I coul d manage was 40 miles an hr. after 20 miles or so I decide to check the ride height and the rear looked a little high and I had read that on the highway the rear was actually supposed to be lower than front a bit. So I dropped the rear as low as seemed ok and tried again. The steering firmed up a bit and on nice smooth road I was able to get her to 50 miles/hr then we hit an older portion of the road with lots of ruts and bumps and it was back to being all over the road. We made our two hr drive in 4 1/2 hrs and pulled into the driveway with a feeling of relieve and my wife looked at me and said I will never get in this thing again until u fix it. So I need help where do I begin. We tightened everything possible in steering colum cleaned and regressed it with a new lower boot before the trip. So is it time to rebuild it all?
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #317977 is a reply to message #317973] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 11:54 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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No alignment on a GMC will do much if you are NOT AT FACTORY RIDE HEIGHT
BEFORE YOU ALIGN IT. Yes, I am shouting. I don't give a damn what you think
about the appearance of the coach. It is not about appearance. It is about
geometry. And weight transfer, and anti-dive. Tires have changed since GMC
manuals were written and specs have too.
Steering wander and groove running are symptoms of worn parts. The wear In
tie rods and ball joints is subtle. They wear most where they move the
most. Full lock left and right is NOT where you will find the most wear.
STRAIGHT AHEAD is where you will find it. As you drive down the road, and
you make slight adjustments with the steering wheel to correct lane
positioning, you are placing wear on all the components from the steering
wheel to the tires. A TINY BIT OF WEAR IN 5 COMPONENTS ADD UP TO A BUNCH OF
WEAR OVERALL. Tire wear, tire pressure, alignment, ride height, control arm
bushings, ball joints, shock absorbers, tie rod ends, idler arm bushings,
drag link joints, steering box, intermediate joints in the column, all
accumulate wear. A bit here, a bit there, adds up to white knuckle driving.
Check the system from end to end. You will find it. A good driving coach
should 1 hand steer comfortably on good roads at 70 mph.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On May 24, 2017 9:21 AM, "Dennis Sexton" wrote:
> Terry
>
> Start simple - what were your tire pressures?
>
> Dennis
>
> Glenbrook75 wrote on Wed, 24 May 2017 08:53
>> Well after a few dollars and a few months of work the Coach was safety
> certified and ready to make the 250km drive home. I had replaced all the
>> oversized 9.50 x 16.5 tires with new 8.75 x 16.5, new cv boots, new
> upper ball joints, new rear bearings and seals, all the fluids checked and
>> replaced everything checked that we could think of including some old
> school wheel alignment other then some play in the steering I was ready. It
>> drove around town like a dream I could not believe how easily it handle
> other then the steering feeling looser than my Rav 4. So we hit the highway
>> air ride set to travel. Well it was like the front end was floating in
> the air like when you overload a truck and the front end lifts, the steering
>> so loose that the I was constantly moving the wheel side to side and the
> coach was all over the road. Best I coul d manage was 40 miles an hr. after
>> 20 miles or so I decide to check the ride height and the rear looked a
> little high and I had read that on the highway the rear was actually
> supposed
>> to be lower than front a bit. So I dropped the rear as low as seemed ok
> and tried again. The steering firmed up a bit and on nice smooth road I was
>> able to get her to 50 miles/hr then we hit an older portion of the road
> with lots of ruts and bumps and it was back to being all over the road. We
>> made our two hr drive in 4 1/2 hrs and pulled into the driveway with a
> feeling of relieve and my wife looked at me and said I will never get in
>> this thing again until u fix it. So I need help where do I begin. We
> tightened everything possible in steering colum cleaned and regressed it
> with a
>> new lower boot before the trip. So is it time to rebuild it all?
>
>
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Memphis TN Metro
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: White knuckle ride [message #317982 is a reply to message #317957] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 14:52 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Terry,
Your story is very familiar, so I am going to ask you to do an very simple and effective diagnosis.
With either the front jacked up, or the engine running (so you can grind the tires on the pavement), spin the steering wheel lock to lock. Count the turns and take it back by half. This should be straight ahead. If the wheel is not straight ahead, that is part of your problem, but the rest could still be hidden. So, pop off the horn button and look for a chisel mark in the top of the steering shaft. If that is not straight ahead, there is a simple problem that will not be hard to fix, but it may take some time (and no new parts). Rather than go into it now, I will refer you to manual X7525 section section 9 page 39 figure 64.
The problem is that many front end guys are uninformed. So, when the steering wheel is not straight, they pop it off and put it back on straight. In a GMC, this is a disaster. If it has happened to your coach, we can fix it.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: White knuckle ride [message #317984 is a reply to message #317982] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 15:33 |
Glenbrook75
Messages: 46
Registered: January 2017
Location: Dauphin, Manitoba
Karma: 0
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Thanks everyone I have been out cleaning and doing a little demolition on the interior so just reading all the posts. My tire pressure was checked and set before we left 65 in front and 60 in the back. I had a old style garage check on the alignment and adjust a few things and we had went threw the front end fairly extensively when replacing shocks and ball joints. But when working outside on driveways we could have missed getting something right and I am not sure where the tech had the ride height set when adjusting alignment and he did say there was a potential problem in steering box. There was also some play in the intermediate shaft. So now that we know it's not working I will start the process of fixing it.
Terry
75 Glenbrook
Dauphin, Manitoba
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| Re: White knuckle ride [message #317985 is a reply to message #317957] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 15:40 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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All of the above were great suggestion. Start with the basic and simple stuff.
The tire pressures should be set according to weight on each axle. Many times the front wheels and rear wheels are set to different pressures. If you do not know the weight on each wheel then I suggest that you start out at 65PSI tire pressure on each wheel (front and back). Do NOT over inflate or you will be driving all over the road.
The next item is to check the ride heights. Do not run the rear ride height high on the highway. Get the rears set exactly to spec. Sometimes this is a several step process. Set the height, measured at the frame not the body, and drive it. Come back and fine tune adjustment at the sensing switches again. Do this several times with a 10 mile ride between each adjustment. Repeat until you have it perfect. There is a dead band area on those sensors and you are looking for the place where they average out and normally run. Once they are set, you can go to the front and check them.
When checking the front, I normally set the rear of the coach frame on blocks so it can not move. Those blocks need to be EXACTLY the same height and near the correct rear ride height. I believe that is 8 and 3/4" to the bottom of the frame where the measurement holes are. You only need to rest the frame on the blocks to keep it from moving and not drop all of the rear weight on them. The blocks I use are single cutoff pieces of 2x4 positioned vertically of course.
Do not adjust anything on the front torsion bars until the rear is blocked. More on that later.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #317986 is a reply to message #317984] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 15:54 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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When I first drove my coach I thought it drove amazing, but I was comparing it to an old Class C, which if you don't know, is more like sailing than driving.
Then i learned it could drive like a car, a few new parts, some adjustments and it's nearly there.
The steering box and the pitman(?) link were my biggest issues.
I centered the steering box, and adjusted it, the new adjustable pitman link was nice to get things centered
I think the bogies might be a bit sloppy, I can feel the back end move on me going into a turn.
But I can drive in traffic on a rutted road with barriers on both sides one handed without being scared.
( the wife is still scared but I just tell her to close her eyes like I do :P )
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Terry
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 3:33:46 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride
Thanks everyone I have been out cleaning and doing a little demolition on the interior so just reading all the posts. My tire pressure was checked and
set before we left 65 in front and 60 in the back. I had a old style garage check on the alignment and adjust a few things and we had went threw the
front end fairly extensively when replacing shocks and ball joints. But when working outside on driveways we could have missed getting something right
and I am not sure where the tech had the ride height set when adjusting alignment and he did say there was a potential problem in steering box. There
was also some play in the intermediate shaft. So now that we know it's not working I will start the process of fixing it.
--
Terry
75 Glenbrook
Dauphin, Manitoba
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #317990 is a reply to message #317985] |
Wed, 24 May 2017 20:01 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Check for tightness on the relay arm bolt. On my Palm beach I have found
that it has backed out twice!!
On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Ken Burton wrote:
> All of the above were great suggestion. Start with the basic and simple
> stuff.
>
> The tire pressures should be set according to weight on each axle. Many
> times the front wheels and rear wheels are set to different pressures. If
> you do not know the weight on each wheel then I suggest that you start out
> at 65PSI tire pressure on each wheel (front and back). Do NOT over inflate
> or you will be driving all over the road.
>
> The next item is to check the ride heights. Do not run the rear ride
> height high on the highway. Get the rears set exactly to spec. Sometimes
> this is a several step process. Set the height, measured at the frame not
> the body, and drive it. Come back and fine tune adjustment at the sensing
> switches again. Do this several times with a 10 mile ride between each
> adjustment. Repeat until you have it perfect. There is a dead band area on
> those sensors and you are looking for the place where they average out and
> normally run. Once they are set, you can go to the front and check them.
>
>
> When checking the front, I normally set the rear of the coach frame on
> blocks so it can not move. Those blocks need to be EXACTLY the same height
> and near the correct rear ride height. I believe that is 8 and 3/4" to
> the bottom of the frame where the measurement holes are. You only need to
> rest the frame on the blocks to keep it from moving and not drop all of
> the rear weight on them. The blocks I use are single cutoff pieces of 2x4
> positioned vertically of course.
>
> Do not adjust anything on the front torsion bars until the rear is
> blocked. More on that later.
>
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: White knuckle ride [message #318011 is a reply to message #317957] |
Thu, 25 May 2017 14:06 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I picked up my coach in west Los Angeles. It had a few different things adding to pretty loose and sloppy steering. Then I drove it all the way across LA at rush hour on the way home. It was "interesting". 
One thing that I didn't see mentioned in the above. Technique.
If you've never driven a similar vehicle before, the tendency will be to add WAY too much steering input to correct a slight deviation. By the time the loose suspension and weight catch up to what you asked for, the coach is now heading in the other direction, only further. So the tendency is to over-correct the other direction, and so on, until the coach is wagging down the road like there's a Richter 9 earthquake underway.
Of course, none of that might apply to the PO, but I thought I'd bring it up because I've seen examples where the same coach was easily driven across the entire country by one driver, and then pronounced undrivable by another driver.
On mine, a combination of a very worn relay arm (replaced with a Lenzi unit), and adjustment of the steering box had it handling really well - a true finger-and-thumb driver now, though nobody's going to mistake it for a sports car. It's helpful to have someone turning the steering wheel back and forth to where the front wheels are JUST starting to wiggle. Then look at each component of the system to see which ones move at the input a lot more than the output. That will normally show you where the problems are.
Here's a short video I made (please forgive me calling it a "control arm") of my relay arm play, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jRxMjykiw4
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride [message #318015 is a reply to message #318011] |
Thu, 25 May 2017 15:55 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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You can also make a small shim (circular with a hole to fit the bolt) that will take up the up and down movement.
Big improvement when I did it a few years back.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On May 25, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Mark wrote:
>
> I picked up my coach in west Los Angeles. It had a few different things adding to pretty loose and sloppy steering. Then I drove it all the way
> across LA at rush hour on the way home. It was "interesting". ;)
>
> One thing that I didn't see mentioned in the above. Technique.
>
> If you've never driven a similar vehicle before, the tendency will be to add WAY too much steering input to correct a slight deviation. By the time
> the loose suspension and weight catch up to what you asked for, the coach is now heading in the other direction, only further. So the tendency is to
> over-correct the other direction, and so on, until the coach is wagging down the road like there's a Richter 9 earthquake underway.
>
> Of course, none of that might apply to the PO, but I thought I'd bring it up because I've seen examples where the same coach was easily driven across
> the entire country by one driver, and then pronounced undrivable by another driver.
>
> On mine, a combination of a very worn relay arm (replaced with a Lenzi unit), and adjustment of the steering box had it handling really well - a true
> finger-and-thumb driver now, though nobody's going to mistake it for a sports car. ;) It's helpful to have someone turning the steering wheel back
> and forth to where the front wheels are JUST starting to wiggle. Then look at each component of the system to see which ones move at the input a lot
> more than the output. That will normally show you where the problems are.
>
> Here's a short video I made (please forgive me calling it a "control arm") of my relay arm play, for example:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jRxMjykiw4
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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