Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed (Eight years sitting)
| Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315134] |
Sun, 26 March 2017 20:46  |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Nearing the time to hear and see the 78 run and move. Carb and intake manifold service/fix nearly done. All new front brakes, front brake lines and master cylinder. I pulled the rear hub/drums to check brakes and bearings. Three came off with medium effort. Bearings looked pretty good, and all had pretty clean, if old and stiff, grease. Passenger rear will not turn. I have blocked under it (to not put torque load on shock absorber), put lugnuts on backwards to protect threads, spanned with a crowbar and jacked the crowbar. Nothing. I beat it with a larger than average hammer. Nothing. PO had a drilled out 2x8 board that fit the lug circle about three feet long, tried that with the jack. Nothing. It seems like the brake shoes are frozen to the drum.
I have a replacement brake drum available (not hub), and brake shoes.
Can I drill the top of the drum to let PB Blaster run down the shoes.
Will I have to cut the drum itself with an angle grinder?
I thought about putting all the wheels on, and with the wheels on the ground try to move the coach and pop it free. After the two levered jacking attempts i think it will just drag that wheel.
Suggestions please...
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315135 is a reply to message #315134] |
Sun, 26 March 2017 20:56  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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You might try backing the shoes off. Knock plugs out if there. Spray knocker loose stuff in the hole. Use a thin screwdriver thru the hole and push the lever away from star adjuster. At same time use a bigger screwdriver to lever turn the adjuster down. Might also try smacking the outside of the drum.
Tilerpep wrote on Sun, 26 March 2017 21:46Nearing the time to hear and see the 78 run and move. Carb and intake manifold service/fix nearly done. All new front brakes, front brake lines and master cylinder. I pulled the rear hub/drums to check brakes and bearings. Three came off with medium effort. Bearings looked pretty good, and all had pretty clean, if old and stiff, grease. Passenger rear will not turn. I have blocked under it (to not put torque load on shock absorber), put lugnuts on backwards to protect threads, spanned with a crowbar and jacked the crowbar. Nothing. I beat it with a larger than average hammer. Nothing. PO had a drilled out 2x8 board that fit the lug circle about three feet long, tried that with the jack. Nothing. It seems like the brake shoes are frozen to the drum.
I have a replacement brake drum available (not hub), and brake shoes.
Can I drill the top of the drum to let PB Blaster run down the shoes.
Will I have to cut the drum itself with an angle grinder?
I thought about putting all the wheels on, and with the wheels on the ground try to move the coach and pop it free. After the two levered jacking attempts i think it will just drag that wheel.
Suggestions please...
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315140 is a reply to message #315135] |
Sun, 26 March 2017 22:29 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Spray liberally with Kroil or PB Blaster all the way around the seam between the backing plate and the drum. Also spray liberally in the hole for the brake adjuster. Let it soak for a day or so and then attack it again with a big hammer. If that does not work I would apply heat (propane not acetylene) and beat on the drum some more.
Good luck
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315144 is a reply to message #315134] |
Mon, 27 March 2017 08:17 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I would use the 455 to do the grunt work. Get on some solid pavement and try rocking back and forth. The wheel and tire adds leverage. It helps if you grew up in the snow belt to do it without hurting drivetrain.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315146 is a reply to message #315134] |
Mon, 27 March 2017 08:51 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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If it was parked with the parking brake set, run some loosening elixir down the cable with an oilcan. Save the price of the PB, mix ATF and acetone half and half and use that to break loose rusted stuff, it works better. Keep it off painted surfaces. I'd soak it liberally morning and night for a couple or three days, back the adjuster off, grab it with a puller, put some tension on it, and beat hell out of it with a stubby sledge hammer around the outside. As a last resort, split it with an angle grinder at the top and bottom, and drive a wedge in each slot and see if that won't allow you to get it off.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315147 is a reply to message #315134] |
Mon, 27 March 2017 08:56 |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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What Johnny said. 4 Inch angle grinder with a cut off wheel. Make some relief cuts in the drum and pry it off.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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| Re: Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315152 is a reply to message #315134] |
Mon, 27 March 2017 21:41 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Three steps forward and two steps back...
Spent the day getting the coach on its own wheels for the first time in a long time, then carb, and timing, and then trying to get the crazy wipers to stop wiping so the windshield wouldn't get scratched up!
Tried Chuck's suggestion of adjuster wheel, but it's as gobbled as the shoes apparently.
Some more hammer. Some sledge hammer (not really swinging, just more mass). I drilled in a few places to spray in some PB Blaster. And to drill just to shoes to try and hit them away from drum. I do believe I only have the forward shoe still stuck (this is rear passenger side), as the drum will turn one way the amount just the shoes will give when a healthy drum is off.
I got the coach running smooth on a can in the passenger floor (a victory in itself) and tranny did want to propel the coach. I did the snow drift rock, and it went nowhere. I think Matt called the cause of this, a leak, soak, water, and frozen to the point of nearly bonded.
So tomorrow I will raise that corner, remove the outer bearing and administrate some sledge hammer. My thinking is that with the bearing out, I can hit one side of the drum face, and it should be able to rock against the front frozen shoe. If that won't do it, the grinder will spin next.
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315156 is a reply to message #315134] |
Tue, 28 March 2017 08:47 |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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Just dont hit the drum so hard that you mess up the hub, or bend the bogie pin. Doing more damage to parts that are harder to find and much more expensive than a drum.
Hence the angle grinder and cut off wheel to slice through the drum/provide a little heat and hopefully some easy taps to remove. Its progress if that drum is spinning at least one direction.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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| Re: Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315157 is a reply to message #315134] |
Tue, 28 March 2017 09:18 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I would spare the BFH and apply heat all around heat sink area of drum. This will expand it away from shoes. You can shoot with IR gun as you go to emulate max road temp conditions.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315159 is a reply to message #315157] |
Tue, 28 March 2017 09:55 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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except the brake shoes float, so heat isn't doing much.
One thing that might work is to cut off the pins that hold the shoes on. The ones that go through the backing plate.
Once they are no longer holding things together you might be able , with some effort, to pull the whole mess off in one piece. might have to cut / destroy the springs but they should be replaced anyway.
Or if you drilled the shoes can you get a punch in there and knock the shoes away from the drum? assuming you didn't drill all the way through the shoe
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of John R.Lebetski
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:18:42 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed
I would spare the BFH and apply heat all around heat sink area of drum. This will expand it away from shoes. You can shoot with IR gun as you go to
emulate max road temp conditions.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315161 is a reply to message #315159] |
Tue, 28 March 2017 10:58 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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I like the idea of clipping the pins! I will pull one that isn't frozen to look at the feasibility, and directionality of attack.
I did try in one or three places to drill just the drum and drive the shoe with a bolt, but it didn't really generate any force away from the drum, because the shoes are against the solid pin top and frozen adjuster at the bottom.
Rain looks to have cleared, I'll give it a go and report.
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315162 is a reply to message #315159] |
Tue, 28 March 2017 11:31 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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To expand on that idea, remove the 4 nuts to the bolts that hold the spindle/backing plate
and the spindle nut, brake line, E cable, and remove the hole unit off the spindle.
That should make it easier to deal with. FWIW
Keith V wrote on Tue, 28 March 2017 07:55except the brake shoes float, so heat isn't doing much.
One thing that might work is to cut off the pins that hold the shoes on. The ones that go through the backing plate.
Once they are no longer holding things together you might be able , with some effort, to pull the whole mess off in one piece. might have to cut / destroy the springs but they should be replaced anyway.
Or if you drilled the shoes can you get a punch in there and knock the shoes away from the drum? assuming you didn't drill all the way through the shoe
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of John R.Lebetski
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:18:42 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed
I would spare the BFH and apply heat all around heat sink area of drum. This will expand it away from shoes. You can shoot with IR gun as you go to
emulate max road temp conditions.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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| Re: Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315181 is a reply to message #315134] |
Tue, 28 March 2017 21:19 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Success! A blend of ideas. The actual success was cutting a window in the drum with the angle grinder, then crowbar the drum away from the shoes. One window actually gave access to push both shoes. I'll try to put a picture up tomorrow. I took the front bearings out and hoped some sledgehammer caresses would free it, but nope. I did not try heating it and I left it all attached to the bogie. The pb blaster i put in the day before through drilled holes had soaked to about 50% of the shoe to drum surface, don't know if that actually changed anything or not as the window I cut turned out to be perfect for leveraging the shoes.
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: Frozen rear hub/drum solution needed [message #315590 is a reply to message #315134] |
Fri, 07 April 2017 07:51 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Here is a pic of the square hole I cut to free the rear brake drum.
The weight of the coach and engine power did not break it free...This method I saved the bearing and axle. New drum, shoes and springs.
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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