Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Inverter location and installation help
| Inverter location and installation help [message #313994] |
Thu, 02 March 2017 19:33  |
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GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199
Registered: September 2016
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Hello All, I purchased the Xantrex Freedom 2000 inverter and need to arrange for the install. I would like to hear from anyone who has installed this type of inverter or has suggestions for installation.
I understand from some of the research I've done that locating the inverter close to the house battery is ideal, however, it appears the closest I can get is in a cabinet I'm building in the front lounge area behind the drivers seat, this makes it approximately 10' from the battery. My current set-up is one 12V deep cycle battery located in the front right side compartment. 1975 Royale.
1) what are my options as far as cable, with the distance I require is #4-0 cable my best option?
2) is the rear of the coach an option or will this require a complete reconfigure of the existing house wiring?
3) should I replace the one 12V battery for two 6V wired in series?
I'm clearly new at this and as always appreciate your helpful advice, what did you do, what should I not do, anything else you care to suggest?
Regards,
Mike
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| Re: Inverter location and installation help [message #313995 is a reply to message #313994] |
Thu, 02 March 2017 19:47  |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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You could wait on the 12v battery replacement with 2 x 6v to spread the cost a little over time. Helps the budget out.
My converter is behind driver's seat and battery is behind genet compartment. #4 cable makes the run. I've had no problems with this set-up. Avions were originally wired with the battery behind the genet, with converter under the bath sink (I believe this is correct.) Both my Avions were 'touched' by P.O.s.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter location and installation help [message #313998 is a reply to message #313994] |
Thu, 02 March 2017 20:59 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mike,
There are several different models of the Freedom 2000; knowing which one
you've bought might be useful.
But regardless of which model, for a 2000W inverter, forget running the
12VDC wires 10' -- it's just not practical; the line loss is just too much
-- you might as well get used to thinking every time that 2000W output at
120vac means an input of 200A+ at 12VDC. Your single 12VDC battery won't
last 5 minutes at that. And the two 6VDC golf cart batteries in series
won't last much more than twice that, especially after they're a year or
two old. And every inch you add to the distance between the inverter and
the batteries will reduce that life a little bit.
What I'm saying is, put the inverter just as close to the batteries as you
possibly can, without exposing it to either the gases emitted by the
batteries or the elements. 4' would be the MOST I'd consider. That
probably means moving the house batteries to the dedicated compartment in
the rear behind the Onan and mounting the inverter under the bed (assuming
you have a rear bed coach) -- or somewhere similar.
From wherever you put the inverter, the 120vac wiring can be MUCH (1/10)
smaller than the 12VDC wires feeding it.
Tell us more about your coach, including the floorplan and we may be able
to help more.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 8:33 PM, Mike wrote:
> Hello All, I purchased the Xantrex Freedom 2000 inverter and need to
> arrange for the install. I would like to hear from anyone who has installed
> this
> type of inverter or has suggestions for installation.
>
> I understand from some of the research I've done that locating the
> inverter close to the house battery is ideal, however, it appears the
> closest I can
> get is in a cabinet I'm building in the front lounge area behind the
> drivers seat, this makes it approximately 10' from the battery. My current
> set-up
> is one 12V deep cycle battery located in the front right side compartment.
> 1975 Royale.
>
> 1) what are my options as far as cable, with the distance I require is
> #4-0 cable my best option?
>
> 2) is the rear of the coach an option or will this require a complete
> reconfigure of the existing house wiring?
>
> 3) should I replace the one 12V battery for two 6V wired in series?
>
> I'm clearly new at this and as always appreciate your helpful advice, what
> did you do, what should I not do, anything else you care to suggest?
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Inverter location and installation help [message #314004 is a reply to message #313994] |
Fri, 03 March 2017 07:13 |
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GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199
Registered: September 2016
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Thank you for your feedback, the model is XANTREX FREEDOM SW2012 12V 2000W INVERTER/CHARGER. I wasn't sure it would be feasible to change over the house set-up to the rear using the space just behind the generator for batteries (2 if igo with the 6 Volt option), can you give me an idea how this can be accomplished?
My Royale, when I purchased it, had the kitchen in the front area, just behind the drivers seat was a small love seat then the kitchen counter followed by the bathroom (dry) with separate shower. Just behind the bathroom wall towards the back of the coach is where the PD converter - charger is located, right between the bathroom wall and the generator compartment.
The rear of the coach is being modified to a lounge which can convert to a bed, I may be able to accommodate the inverter in the rear area with some effort due to the size which is approximately 13" wide by 16" long and 8" high. If using the generator compartment area for house battery set-up isn't a major undertaking I can try working this into the rear lounge build?
I read that reducing voltage loss is critical hence positioning as close as possible to the battery, and that you should make every effort to keep the loss below 0.075 volt. Due to the distance I was looking at and using a 2000 watt load would require using "0000" gauge wire to stay as close as possible to the recommended .075 volt loss threshold.
I have zero knowledge in this area so I need the wisdom and experience of those that have been there and accomplished it.
Many thanks,
Mike
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter location and installation help [message #314006 is a reply to message #313994] |
Fri, 03 March 2017 07:49 |
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Hi Mike
Would you please share your VIN with us? You can find it on the firewall
behind the passenger side hood. Not that it matters that much, I believe
you have an Avion finished GMC.
There is a space right behind the generator house that might be large
enough for you. It is right next to the rear battery compartment.
bdub
On Mar 2, 2017 7:33 PM, "Mike" wrote:
> Hello All, I purchased the Xantrex Freedom 2000 inverter and need to
> arrange for the install. I would like to hear from anyone who has installed
> this
> type of inverter or has suggestions for installation.
>
> I understand from some of the research I've done that locating the
> inverter close to the house battery is ideal, however, it appears the
> closest I can
> get is in a cabinet I'm building in the front lounge area behind the
> drivers seat, this makes it approximately 10' from the battery. My current
> set-up
> is one 12V deep cycle battery located in the front right side compartment.
> 1975 Royale.
>
> 1) what are my options as far as cable, with the distance I require is
> #4-0 cable my best option?
>
> 2) is the rear of the coach an option or will this require a complete
> reconfigure of the existing house wiring?
>
> 3) should I replace the one 12V battery for two 6V wired in series?
>
> I'm clearly new at this and as always appreciate your helpful advice, what
> did you do, what should I not do, anything else you care to suggest?
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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bdub
bdub.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter location and installation help [message #314021 is a reply to message #314004] |
Fri, 03 March 2017 11:13 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mike,
Since I have a 23' coach, on which the 3' difference from your 26' is
mostly at the rear, I have no battery space at the rear. So, I'm going to
defer to those who have more similar coaches -- there are plenty here with
the knowledge to help you continue now that you recognize the importance of
proximity between the batteries and the inverter.
Yours should be an excellent installation since the inverter has all of the
most desireable features: Adequate 120vac output in true sine wave, more
than adequate 100A converter/charger output with 3-stage control, automatic
switching, etc., etc. I reviewed the installation manual; it should
provide most of the information you need. However, when I look at the
black lines in the wiring diagrams, I see cables, connectors, and physical
components; you probably need to find a nearby mentor to familiarize you
with those items.
For others interested, here's the link to the Xantrex site where there are
links to data sheets, the manual, etc:
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/freedom-sw-12v_newgen.aspx
Ken H.
On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 8:13 AM, Mike wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Thank you for your feedback, the model is XANTREX FREEDOM SW2012 12V 2000W
> INVERTER/CHARGER. I wasn't sure it would be feasible to change over the
> house set-up to the rear using the space just behind the generator for
> batteries (2 if igo with the 6 Volt option), can you give me an idea how
> this
> can be accomplished?
>
> My Royale, when I purchased it, had the kitchen in the front area, just
> behind the drivers seat was a small love seat then the kitchen counter
> followed by the bathroom (dry) with separate shower. Just behind the
> bathroom wall towards the back of the coach is where the PD converter -
> charger
> is located, right between the bathroom wall and the generator compartment.
>
> The rear of the coach is being modified to a lounge which can convert to a
> bed, I may be able to accommodate the inverter in the rear area with some
> effort due to the size which is approximately 13" wide by 16" long and 8"
> high. If using the generator compartment area for house battery set-up isn't
> a major undertaking I can try working this into the rear lounge build?
>
> I read that reducing voltage loss is critical hence positioning as close
> as possible to the battery, and that you should make every effort to keep
> the
> loss below 0.075 volt. Due to the distance I was looking at and using a
> 2000 watt load would require using "0000" gauge wire to stay as close as
> possible to the recommended .075 volt loss threshold.
>
> I have zero knowledge in this area so I need the wisdom and experience of
> those that have been there and accomplished it.
>
> Many thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter location and installation help [message #314022 is a reply to message #314021] |
Fri, 03 March 2017 11:58 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Make sure you give the inverter ventilation in where ever you mount it. And be sure to keep the inverter and batteries segregated as the battery's gasses and inverters don't play well together. To take advantage of the 2000 watts you're going to need a lot more battery though. Having 100 amps worth of charging sounds great but a single 12 battery will never be able to absorb the charge for more than a few minutes. I'd guess you will need at least four six volt series/parallel wired. Your microwave will use most all of that 2000 watts of power.
Lots of information out there if you look for it but batteries seem to be a black science with lots of bad advice floating around. Some of the off grid/solar sites have good information available.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: Inverter location and installation help [message #314024 is a reply to message #313994] |
Fri, 03 March 2017 13:41 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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For the little amount of time the microwave runs, it makes sense to me to simply spin off the genset, cook dinner, and then shut it back off. Enough battery capacity and inverter capacity to run a microwave, electric stove, or airconditioner just isn't cost effective in acquisition, operation, or maintenance. The icebox and heater and lights and TV will run just fine on batteries and propane.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Inverter location and installation help [message #314033 is a reply to message #314029] |
Fri, 03 March 2017 23:47 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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Space is always an issue for mounting batteries and you really don't want to split them up, ie. front and back. You also don't want to use different battery's in a battery bank, a combo of 6 and 12 volt for instance. The long run from front to rear isn't recomended but you can get buy with it by sizing your conductors correctly, maybe going with parallel runs if needed. We are quite limited in most of the GMC's unfortunately .
I only run a pair of 6 volts up front with 4/0 going to my 1000 watt true sign Magnum. A nice little unit with 4 stage, 55amp charging and auto transfer capabilities. With 280 watts of solar on the roof it seems to work very well. I do have to run the noise maker for the micro and the 1000 is probably over kill for what we use it for.
Isn't it all fun,, 
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: Inverter location and installation help [message #314037 is a reply to message #313994] |
Sat, 04 March 2017 08:14 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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My 26' has two large capacity 6V in the rear beside the genset. They'
re removable by pulling them out - there's room beside the Onan. If there were four, two would be to the rear of these, and would require some sliding to get them out. The PO installed a fill system which allows watering both of them without moving them, a real time saver. Otherwise either the outside one would have to come out to water the back one, or you'd have to either guess at the fill or overfill. Miguel Mendez (I believe) installed the filling system, and should be able to point potential users to its source.
All that being said, when the house bank dies, it will revert to a single deep cycle 12v. All my house battery has to do is hold up the icebox at fuel stops and hookup time at the destination, and run the lights and furnace and icebox controls overnight at two venues I frequent - only one of which needs heat anyway. I don't dry camp to amount to anything, those two venues I run the genset except to sleep.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Inverter location and installation help [message #314041 is a reply to message #313994] |
Sat, 04 March 2017 09:59 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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GMC Jimmy wrote on Thu, 02 March 2017 20:33Hello All, I purchased the Xantrex Freedom 2000 inverter and need to arrange for the install. I would like to hear from anyone who has installed this type of inverter or has suggestions for installation.
I understand from some of the research I've done that locating the inverter close to the house battery is ideal, however, it appears the closest I can get is in a cabinet I'm building in the front lounge area behind the drivers seat, this makes it approximately 10' from the battery. My current set-up is one 12V deep cycle battery located in the front right side compartment. 1975 Royale.
1) what are my options as far as cable, with the distance I require is #4-0 cable my best option?
2) is the rear of the coach an option or will this require a complete reconfigure of the existing house wiring?
3) should I replace the one 12V battery for two 6V wired in series?
I'm clearly new at this and as always appreciate your helpful advice, what did you do, what should I not do, anything else you care to suggest?
Regards,
Mike
Mike,
I did a lot of this stuff when we did boat work before the depression. We converted more than a few retired racing sloops to "Performance Cruisers". That means making an old race boat comfortable when that had never been a consideration in the past. House electrics is always a big part. That company is gone now, so I have time to write about a lot of this and I am still hoping to pass on some of the lessons learned.
A Xantrex Freedom 2000 is a BIG box. It needs to be someplace that it is close to the house bank, but not too close as even AGMs can create fumes that it will not tolerate well. (AGMs just do a tiny fraction of what flooded cells will do.) It will also need free air to cool.
If you are going to put in the XF2K, do not bother with less house bank than either a single 4D (134# battery) or 2ea - GC2s (72#ea). Look among the suppliers, there is available a battery tray that will slide out far enough to allow servicing the most inside cells. Get that one.
The closer you can get the XF2K to the house bank the better. Spend the money on copper right up front. What ever copper you buy, get marine wire. The tinning is nice, but it is finer strand that others and to easier to handle. Without knowing your final run length, I can't suggest a minimum cable size. Just for reference, the last full upgrade I did the bill for just the copper was 900$.
If I recall correctly, you said something about a back battery. If you have such, it is the start battery for the APU and suffers most form being ignored and unused. You can cross that service onto your new house bank.
Other semi important thing. Make the connections to the bank from the XF2K the only connections on the bank proper. Connections to batteries are notable unreliable and will need to be serviced. As such, a ball of cables there is no help at all. Make all those connections at the XF2K terminals. Those should be a make once and forget.
Get enough 12-2G marine romex to do two(2, dos, zwei) runs between the Xantrex and the current AC panel. Run a circuit just for than and bring the same back to a distribution box for such that you might like to have on the inverter. The XF2K has a transfer inside it already, so you might as well use it.
You can remove your existing converter. If it is a buzzbox, offer it to someone that does electronics, it will be a great bench supply and the noise will keep him awake. You can use that space for the new subpanel.
If you plan to drycamp at all, this would be a really good time to include a real battery monitor like a Bogart Trimetric or a Xantrex Link in the system.
This will be pretty serious tear-up, so you might as well get it right the first time.
If you have questions or need other suggestions, I here and I do read private messages when I read the forum.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Inverter location and installation help [message #314044 is a reply to message #313994] |
Sat, 04 March 2017 11:34 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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One thing I'll add. A quick search on the net shows #6 marine cable at 2.99 a foot, and #6 welding cable at .50 a foot. The welding cable is just as flexible, it just isn't tinned. Unless you propose to go floating in the GMC, the tinning is overkill. That price difference follows along through pretty much all gauges.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Inverter location and installation help [message #314099 is a reply to message #313994] |
Sun, 05 March 2017 07:49 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Just the first couple of places a Google search turned up. The point being, welding cable is cheaper than marine - which isn't surprising considering the other step to manufacture marine cable. I get it locally off Craigslist.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Inverter location and installation help [message #314124 is a reply to message #314123] |
Sun, 05 March 2017 20:08 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mike,
I don't think you've ever told us what model GMC you have, nor your
location. It's very useful for us to know your location (city at least),
the model and year of your GMC, and if there are any unique features about
the coach. With that information we can provide more accurate assistance,
and may be able to suggest someone nearby to help you.
That information is particularly important now: It's very likely that your
coach is already equipped to accept a rear-mounted battery. Some of the
components may still be in place, making it easy to move the house
battery(s) to the rear. Someone with the same model you have can advise
you what to check for.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Mike wrote:
> Thanks for all your help fellows, this is going to require a bit more
> research to determine what my needs will be.
> ...
>
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GMCnet mailing list
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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