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You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #313978]

Thu, 02 March 2017 12:27

Atom Ant

Messages: 170
Registered: October 2016
Location: Austin, TX

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Hey all-

Put 7 gallons on the coach. No start.

Getting fuel in the carb when I push the throttle.

Getting spark from at least one plug.

I did put some liquid fuel in the carb before initial crank because I thought it would help while fuel was traveling through the lines.

I did add subsequent liquid fuel once I saw fuel squirt from the carb, engine runs on fuel put into carb.

Did I flood it?

Plugs are not wet, turnover sounds normal, not sped up. (I don't think fuel got into the cylinders)

1976 Palm Beach Austin, TX

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Re: You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #313981 is a reply to message #313978]

Thu, 02 March 2017 13:05

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

Unlikely you flooded it, more likely fuel starved. When you say fuel at the carb, you should have two steady streams as the throttle is opened, not just bubble and spit. If the carb filter isn't new, (carefully) put a new one.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #313982 is a reply to message #313978]

Thu, 02 March 2017 13:09

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

Lemme also note, on my 23', with the choke set slightly lean, it was necessary to dance on the accelerator four or five times and then spin it and it would catch. Yu >can< flood one, but you really have to work at it.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: [GMCnet] You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #313983 is a reply to message #313982]

Thu, 02 March 2017 13:35

Ken Henderson

Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Adam,

In addition to the other, correct, suggestions; If the 7 gallons is ALL
the gas tanks contain, you may not have enough gas to keep the engine
running. No matter what you hear about the first gas running into either
tank, some of it is almost certain to run to the other one. So, you may
have only 3.5 gal. in each tank. Add to that the fact that the pickups are
seldom right at the bottom of the tank and you may have access to well
under the advertised 52 gallons. I've run out of gas and been unable to
put in more than 40 gallons.

I'd put another 10 gallons in there before getting very excited.

Oh yeah, no one has mentioned the ignition timing -- has that been
disturbed since the engine last ran?

Ken H.

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Lemme also note, on my 23', with the choke set slightly lean, it was
> necessary to dance on the accelerator four or five times and then spin it
> and it
> would catch. Yu >can< flood one, but you really have to work at it.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> '76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and
> add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "The road goes on forever, and the party never ends" --Robert Earl Keen
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach

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Re: You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #313986 is a reply to message #313978]

Thu, 02 March 2017 14:21

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Adam,

You say no start, but did it even bang once?

Johnny and Ken have you on the right track.

Just a little experience here, if you are pouring (any rate at all) wet fuel into the carburetor, close the air filter housing at least one thread before cranking. If something happens to light the fuel in the manifold, things can get very exciting very fast.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #313988 is a reply to message #313978]

Thu, 02 March 2017 15:19

lqqkatjon

Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN

Karma: 5

Senior Member

hook a timing light up. easy way to verify that spark is happening.... all the time. I zip tie the trigger on the timing light so I can see it flash.

if the plugs are dry, I doubt you flooded it, it takes plenty of gas to do that.

Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

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Re: You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #313989 is a reply to message #313978]

Thu, 02 March 2017 15:43

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

If the engine starts and runs on added fuel, the timing is close enough to get it going. Ken has you on the right track. Toss another ten - fifteen gallons in and see if it will run. I assume you've got good fuel lines - a crack before the pump will let it pull air instead of gas. The quick n dirty if you don't know the condition of the lines is a jerry can, an electric pump (Mr Gasket or equal and you can use it later for vapor lock suppression) and a few feet of hose. Plumb the hose into the mechanical pump, run the electric pump for a bit, and see if it won't fire off and run. Do this with either a new filter in the carb or no filter in the carb.
The smoking lamp is OUT during these shenanigans.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #313990 is a reply to message #313978]

Thu, 02 March 2017 15:49

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

Oh yeah - if you get a fire going in the carb due to pouring gas into a backfire, the proper procedure is, hold it wide open and crank away. It will suck the fide down and stop it. I learnt this on a B engined Mopar with the original long rams, where the tubes run uphill for a bit. Total firebug that toy was.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: [GMCnet] You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #313993 is a reply to message #313990]

Thu, 02 March 2017 19:26

Bruce Hart

Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming

Karma: 5

Senior Member

I have a friend that has several cars that he stores and starts them up
once or twice a year.
He will pour gas on top of the air cleaner and let it drip down into the
carb. if it back fires

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Oh yeah - if you get a fire going in the carb due to pouring gas into a
> backfire, the proper procedure is, hold it wide open and crank away. It
> will
> suck the fide down and stop it. I learnt this on a B engined Mopar with
> the original long rams, where the tubes run uphill for a bit. Total firebug
> that toy was.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart 1976 Palm Beach 1977 28' Kingsley La Grange, Wyoming

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Re: You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #314000 is a reply to message #313978]

Thu, 02 March 2017 21:20

Atom Ant

Messages: 170
Registered: October 2016
Location: Austin, TX

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Hey everyone-

An update.

I let the coach sit for couple hours and tried again. After cranking for a bit, she finally roared to life!

My fuel system replacement project is (nearly) complete.

Primed and painted tanks
Hard lines on top of tanks with compression fittings
Rebuilt fuel sending units
All soft line replaced with gates barrier hose.
A second hard vent line, T'd high under the drivers seat.
New tank selector valve
Repaired fuel vapor separator

I went back to stock, so no extra fuel pump or on line filters yet. I left the socks on the senders.

I let it run for about 15 minutes with no issues. It actually runs better, less loping.
It's amazing what no cracks and splits along with no pinched or flattened sections can do for a fuel system!
I guess not sucking air and being able to vent are kinda important.

Even my fuel gauge registered the difference between the main and aux tank levels with only 7 gallons.

I want to thank everyone on this forum for taking the time to answer questions and help.

We're really looking forward to a couple summer trips. But first, to the car wash!!

1976 Palm Beach Austin, TX

[Updated on: Thu, 02 March 2017 21:22]

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Re: You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #314012 is a reply to message #314000]

Fri, 03 March 2017 09:14

Larry C

Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Atom Ant wrote on Thu, 02 March 2017 21:20

---- > CUT < ----

My fuel system replacement project is (nearly) complete.

Primed and painted tanks
Hard lines on top of tanks with compression fittings
Rebuilt fuel sending units
All soft line replaced with gates barrier hose.
A second hard vent line, T'd high under the drivers seat.
New tank selector valve
Repaired fuel vapor separator

I went back to stock, so no extra fuel pump or on line filters yet. I left the socks on the senders.

--- > CUT < ---

I let it run for about 15 minutes with no issues. It actually runs better, less loping.
It's amazing what no cracks and splits along with no pinched or flattened sections can do for a fuel system!
I guess not sucking air and being able to vent are kinda important.

Even my fuel gauge registered the difference between the main and aux tank levels with only 7 gallons.

I want to thank everyone on this forum for taking the time to answer questions and help.

We're really looking forward to a couple summer trips. But first, to the car wash!!

ATOM ANT
Did you find any instruction on how to convert over from the rubber hose above the tanks, if so can you share?

I've fought a power loss problem over a very long period of time (years) at high cost to find and it seems to be going back to the fuel line replacements. We have one more test that will happen soon as the engine runs fine with the outboard gas can connected to the carb. Inspection of the VISIBLE system looks good back to the new fuel solenoid.

my final test will be to connect the generator fuel source to the engine fuel pump. IF SUCCESSFUL, I will have to drop the tanks to see if the fuel lines are crushed.

It's been a long darn haul to get here and I have to admit, I've lost a lot of the spirit for the GMC.

I am thinking metal lines would be less able to be crushed and starve fuel to the engine if this is the actual root of the problem.

thanks for any thoughts, as well to everyone else who over the years have offered thoughts of help. I cannot thank you all enough for your help in the past, and possibly in the future, even yet.

GatsbysCruise

Gatsbys' CRUISER

08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" /> http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_

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Re: You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #314017 is a reply to message #314012]

Fri, 03 March 2017 10:42

pjburt

Messages: 436
Registered: February 2016
Location: Fresno, California

Karma: 1

Senior Member

[quote title=Larry C wrote on Fri, 03 March 2017 07:14][quote title=Atom Ant wrote on Thu, 02 March 2017 21:20] ---- > CUT < ----

My fuel system replacement project is (nearly) complete.
Quote:

ATOM ANT
Did you find any instruction on how to convert over from the rubber hose above the tanks, if so can you share?

I've fought a power loss problem over a very long period of time (years) at high cost to find and it seems to be going back to the fuel line replacements. We have one more test that will happen soon as the engine runs fine with the outboard gas can connected to the carb. Inspection of the VISIBLE system looks good back to the new fuel solenoid.

my final test will be to connect the generator fuel source to the engine fuel pump. IF SUCCESSFUL, I will have to drop the tanks to see if the fuel lines are crushed.

It's been a long darn haul to get here and I have to admit, I've lost a lot of the spirit for the GMC.

I am thinking metal lines would be less able to be crushed and starve fuel to the engine if this is the actual root of the problem.

thanks for any thoughts, as well to everyone else who over the years have offered thoughts of help. I cannot thank you all enough for your help in the past, and possibly in the future, even yet.

GatsbysCruise

Here is one way to convert to steel lines. There are others posted on the photo site. Just do a search for fuel tanks.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/dropping-the-fuel-tanks/p23644-fuel-tanks.html

Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.

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Re: You probably all knew this was coming-no start. [message #314092 is a reply to message #314012]

Sat, 04 March 2017 23:56

Atom Ant

Messages: 170
Registered: October 2016
Location: Austin, TX

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Hi Larry-

Do a search on this site and the photo site for key words like fuel line, fuel tank, etc. take some time to dig into the topics that come up, and you will find a plethora of really good info. (My first thread was fuel line fail...might be a good place to start.)

The folks on this site are well versed on this project, as it seems to be one that everyone does eventually. They're also really knowledgeable and willing to help.

As to my tanks, I had a bad fuel spilling issue on our very first trip, so I decided to re do the entire system. I learned everything I needed to know by reading a lot, looking at pics, and asking a bunch of questions.

I had no less than three flattened hoses above my tanks, one of which was also cracked all the way through. Not only is it a fuel supply issue, but a venting issue while filling and driving. It's not terribly difficult, but it was time consuming for me because I went full bore into even rebuilding my sending units, and working solo with only one day a week to work at best, it took a bit.

I used poly armour line on top of the tanks so that no crushing or breaking would occur under my watch. I used brass compression fittings. You'll get a number of options and opinions from the crew here, just choose what's right for you.

I'd be happy to help with any specific questions you have. You can pm me or post here.

1976 Palm Beach Austin, TX

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