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| [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313002] |
Fri, 10 February 2017 11:22  |
<diego.hotrod
Messages: 7
Registered: September 2016
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Good morning all. Is it possible to swap a surburban nt-32G ducted furnace out of a 1973 Canyonlands and replace it with a new current model? I don’t want to modify my coach’s exterior side and hope not to mod the inside cabinets. I’ve hear that the internals do interchange and I just slide in a new model into the old cabinet. Also the old unit was a 30,000 btu. I plan for some cold weather camping (outside temp as low as 0*) so would a 40,0000 btu unit be excessive? Or even enough!
Can anyone be specific as to model and required labor?
By the way it is amazing how current topics are so timely and are tasks that I am currently doing. Amazing knowledge base! Thank all of you so much.
Rod Utterback
1973 Canyonlands 26ft
Done by me: Brakes,bearings,PD9260, Dash A/C rebuilt, KYB’s,
Fantasics, Fuel tanks etc, Cork flooring, flat screens,
Leds, upgraded calipers/master, stove delete, convection/micro
455 w/ headers,HEI,
Coming soon: FItech, cooling fans, wheels/tires, kick ass audio/video
Upgraded sway bars, body kit, tinted glass, LED dock lighting, awning,
Security/keyless system,
Escondido, Ca.
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313007 is a reply to message #313002] |
Fri, 10 February 2017 12:38  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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<diego.hotrod wrote on Fri, 10 February 2017 12:22Good morning all. Is it possible to swap a surburban nt-32G ducted furnace out of a 1973 Canyonlands and replace it with a new current model? I don't want to modify my coach's exterior side and hope not to mod the inside cabinets. I've hear that the internals do interchange and I just slide in a new model into the old cabinet. Also the old unit was a 30,000 btu. I plan for some cold weather camping (outside temp as low as 0*) so would a 40,0000 btu unit be excessive? Or even enough!
Can anyone be specific as to model and required labor?
By the way it is amazing how current topics are so timely and are tasks that I am currently doing. Amazing knowledge base! Thank all of you so much.
Rod Utterback
1973 Canyonlands 26ft
Rod,
Very many years ago, I replaced a suburban NT-24(iirc) with a NT-30. (Because it was what I could get from Cinibar fast.)
Problems:
The case size was larger by a little, and the intake and exhaust were lower on the new unit.
* I made a box to jack it up so those lined up.
* The larger case made access to one register difficult, but I used to design ducting so that just took some extra thinking.
The duct size was larger.
* This required running some new larger ducts.
The current compensator in the new thermostat was different and I did not like the new thermostat.
* I used the old one with a resistor to make the current right in the thermostat heater.
I works just fine, but it has a tendency to short cycle.
I cannot imagine that the change could be that big, but you should check dimensions before you get too far.
You will love the pilotless operation.
I very much doubt that you will need more heat than the 30K can do. At 10°F, ours was still cycling (ours is a 73-23 with bad insulation).
If you are going to be in 0°F for long, get some bubble wrap to put over some of the glass.
Other - Get in touch with me when you want to do the key-less bit. I have a very good way to put the operator in the door. The write-up comes with plans for all three parts you have to make. (Can you bend a piece of wire and drill holes in some aluminum?)
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313008 is a reply to message #313002] |
Fri, 10 February 2017 13:58 |
77Royale
Messages: 461
Registered: June 2014
Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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Possible this would help. (not suggesting you buy there, just that they have a nice side by side comparison if you scroll down the page)
http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/Suburban-NT-Furnace-p/vts-423.htm
Looks like all the cabinets are the same size. If your replacing an NT 30 you may have 3 ducts open. easy to tell. The larger furnace appears to need all 4 open.So if you dont already have 4 ducts you may need to run a new one.
Probably wouldn't go larger than 32. I have an NT 30 in our Royale with 4 ducts and it does a nice job of warming things up. It Doesnt cycle on and off constantly and I have been out there in 0 degree weather working on things.
As mentioned, sealing up air drafts and covering windows will keep the heat in well.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
[Updated on: Fri, 10 February 2017 14:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313010 is a reply to message #313008] |
Fri, 10 February 2017 17:52 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Maybe I should start a new thread for this and probably will, but has anyone else heard about the "Truma Combi" heater/furnace? Evidently these are popular with 'caravans' in Europe and are starting to make the scene here in the US. They are used in some of the new class-B units here. This would appear to be a great, space saving unit for the GMCs.
https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/combi-6.php
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313011 is a reply to message #313010] |
Fri, 10 February 2017 18:50 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Carl,
Out of curiosity, after reading the web site, I Googled for prices. Never
did find a price for a complete unit, but LOTS of ads for replacement parts
-- some sounding pretty expensive (control board $300+?).
Have you seen a ready-to-install price?
Ken H.
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
> Maybe I should start a new thread for this and probably will, but has
> anyone else heard about the "Truma Combi" heater/furnace? Evidently these
> are
> popular with 'caravans' in Europe and are starting to make the scene here
> in the US. They are used in some of the new class-B units here. This would
> appear to be a great, space saving unit for the GMCs.
>
> https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/combi-6.php
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313012 is a reply to message #313011] |
Fri, 10 February 2017 19:13 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Ken Henderson wrote on Fri, 10 February 2017 17:50Carl,
Out of curiosity, after reading the web site, I Googled for prices. Never
did find a price for a complete unit, but LOTS of ads for replacement parts
-- some sounding pretty expensive (control board $300+?).
Have you seen a ready-to-install price?
Ken H.
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
> Maybe I should start a new thread for this and probably will, but has
> anyone else heard about the "Truma Combi" heater/furnace? Evidently these
> are
> popular with 'caravans' in Europe and are starting to make the scene here
> in the US. They are used in some of the new class-B units here. This would
> appear to be a great, space saving unit for the GMCs.
>
> https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/combi-6.php
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken,
I haven't seen any official pricing, but what I DID see indicated a price of around $5100 - $2000.00. Kind of pricey, but it IS a water heater AND a forced air furnace. The 6000 watt rating translates to a bit ober 20,000 BTUs.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313068 is a reply to message #313002] |
Sun, 12 February 2017 14:21 |
Handyman
Messages: 229
Registered: April 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
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Hello Carl,
Here in the Netherlands, they are available for around 1900-2500€, depends on which type, the 4 or 6 types, with or without Electro support, also you can choose between LP or Diesel as energy-source. Additional you need, controller, flexibel hoses etc.
I will post tommorrow some more details and pictures.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwRrP8DfhLXUSy16OUpNbGlaaVE
These are used in most european RV's. Reliable and with many satisfiet users.
An alternativ are from ALDE (also from the Truma company) is a heating like at home with radiators filled with an antifrees liquid.
Very comfy but much more work to install but also with an integrated warmwaterheater.
(I have that ALDE in my Hymer RV)
Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313073 is a reply to message #313068] |
Sun, 12 February 2017 15:35 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Handyman wrote on Sun, 12 February 2017 13:21Hello Carl,
Here in the Netherlands, they are available for around 1900-2500€, depends on which type, the 4 or 6 types, with or without Electro support, also you can choose between LP or Diesel as energy-source. Additional you need, controller, flexibel hoses etc.
I will post tommorrow some more details and pictures.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwRrP8DfhLXUSy16OUpNbGlaaVE
These are used in most european RV's. Reliable and with many satisfiet users.
An alternativ are from ALDE (also from the Truma company) is a heating like at home with radiators filled with an antifrees liquid.
Very comfy but much more work to install but also with an integrated warmwaterheater.
(I have that ALDE in my Hymer RV)
Daniel
Thanks for the additional info, Daniel. The reason I am interested is due to our frequent dry camping excursions. Our furnace works fine and has been tested for safety, but we still have the electric water heater, which requires the generator to heat water . The Truma Combi seems like the ideal solution to the water heating issue along with providing an upgrade to the forced air furnace. I suspect they will become more readily available here in the US in the next couple of years, maybe even from one of the surplus stores.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313074 is a reply to message #313073] |
Sun, 12 February 2017 15:55 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Used to carry a roll-a-way full of tools. Now, I carry what I take in one
hand. Visa card, AAA card, and a cell phone. Run your best parts, do your
preventative maintenance at home before you leave. Maybe it will rise up
and bite me one day, but, I don't think so. I carry a set of drive belts, a
fuel pump, and a water pump in the coach. Spare radiator hoses, too.
Thermostat as well. Just me, your needs might vary.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Feb 12, 2017 1:36 PM, "Carl Stouffer" wrote:
> Handyman wrote on Sun, 12 February 2017 13:21
>> Hello Carl,
>>
>> Here in the Netherlands, they are available for around 1900-2500€,
> depends on which type, the 4 or 6 types, with or without Electro support,
>> also you can choose between LP or Diesel as energy-source. Additional
> you need, controller, flexibel hoses etc.
>> I will post tommorrow some more details and pictures.
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwRrP8DfhLXUSy16OUpNbGlaaVE
>>
>> These are used in most european RV's. Reliable and with many satisfiet
> users.
>> An alternativ are from ALDE (also from the Truma company) is a heating
> like at home with radiators filled with an antifrees liquid.
>> Very comfy but much more work to install but also with an integrated
> warmwaterheater.
>> (I have that ALDE in my Hymer RV)
>>
>> Daniel
>
>
> Thanks for the additional info, Daniel. The reason I am interested is due
> to our frequent dry camping excursions. Our furnace works fine and has
> been tested for safety, but we still have the electric water heater, which
> requires the generator to heat water . The Truma Combi seems like the
> ideal solution to the water heating issue along with providing an upgrade
> to the forced air furnace. I suspect they will become more readily
> available here in the US in the next couple of years, maybe even from one
> of the surplus stores.
>
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313104 is a reply to message #313068] |
Mon, 13 February 2017 03:50 |
Handyman
Messages: 229
Registered: April 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Handyman wrote on Sun, 12 February 2017 21:21I will post tommorrow some more details and pictures.
Daniel
Starting with a link to their international site:
https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/overview-heating-systems.php
In your situation the combi's are the most interesting.
Technical Details:
Truma Combi kachel/boiler combinatie
Truma
Combi 4 en 4E: 2000 - 4000 Watt
Combi 6 en 6E: 2000 - 6000 Watt
Power combi of LP and Electra:
Combi 4 en 6: not available
Combi 4E: 3800 Watt maximaal
Combi 6E: 5800 Watt maximaal
Volume: 10 liter
Propane (Combi 4 en 6)
Propane / elektriciteit (4E en 6E)
Bedrijfsdruk: 30 mbar
Aansluitspanning:
Combi 4 en Combi 6: 12 volt
Combi 4E en 6E: 12volt en 220 volt
Consumption:
Combi 4 en 4E: 160 - 320 gram p/u
Combi 6 en 6E: 160 - 480 gram p/u
Stroomverbruik bij 12 volt:
Boiler: 0,4 Ampère maximaal
Verwarming en boiler: 0,2 tot maximaal 5,6 Ampère (korte tijdspanne)
1,2 Ampère gemiddeld
Stroomverbruik bij 220 volt:
Combi 4 en 6: niet van toepassing
Combi 4E en 6E: 3,9 / 7,8 Ampère
Ruststroom: 0,001 Ampère
Bediening: Voorzien van het nieuwe Truma CP Plus bedieningspaneel
Thermostaat: Meegeleverd
Ventilator: Geïntegreerd
Verwarmingselement:
Combi 4 en 6: niet aanwezig
Combi 4E en 6E: 1800 Watt (2x900 watt)
Opwarmtijd:
Boiler: +- 20minuten
Verwarming en boiler: +-80 minuten
Rendement: 97%
Luchtopbrengst: Maximaal 287m³ per uur
Maximale waterdruk: 2,8 bar
Vorstbescherming: Ja, inclusief
Afmetingen: 510 x 450 x 300 mm (lxbxh)
Gewicht:
Combi 4 en 6: 14,5kg
Combi 4E en 6E: 15,6kg
Exclusief: Schoorsteenset en ringverwarming benodigdheden
----------------------------------------
Sorry for some dutch in the details, but I think, you get the picture 
Good luck!
Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313114 is a reply to message #313104] |
Mon, 13 February 2017 08:22 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Read here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/hydronic.html
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 1:51 AM Daniel Jacobs wrote:
> Handyman wrote on Sun, 12 February 2017 21:21
>> I will post tommorrow some more details and pictures.
>>
>> Daniel
>
>
> Starting with a link to their international site:
>
> https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/overview-heating-systems.php
>
>
> http://members.ziggo.nl/d.w.jacobs/GMC/Truma/Truma1.png
>
> In your situation the combi's are the most interesting.
>
> http://members.ziggo.nl/d.w.jacobs/GMC/Truma/Truma2.png
>
> Technical Details:
> Truma Combi kachel/boiler combinatie
> Truma
>
> Combi 4 en 4E: 2000 - 4000 Watt
> Combi 6 en 6E: 2000 - 6000 Watt
>
> Power combi of LP and Electra:
> Combi 4 en 6: not available
> Combi 4E: 3800 Watt maximaal
> Combi 6E: 5800 Watt maximaal
>
> Volume: 10 liter
>
> Propane (Combi 4 en 6)
> Propane / elektriciteit (4E en 6E)
>
> Bedrijfsdruk: 30 mbar
> Aansluitspanning:
> Combi 4 en Combi 6: 12 volt
> Combi 4E en 6E: 12volt en 220 volt
>
> Consumption:
> Combi 4 en 4E: 160 - 320 gram p/u
> Combi 6 en 6E: 160 - 480 gram p/u
>
> Stroomverbruik bij 12 volt:
> Boiler: 0,4 Ampère maximaal
>
> Verwarming en boiler: 0,2 tot maximaal 5,6 Ampère (korte tijdspanne)
>
> 1,2 Ampère gemiddeld
>
> Stroomverbruik bij 220 volt:
> Combi 4 en 6: niet van toepassing
>
> Combi 4E en 6E: 3,9 / 7,8 Ampère
>
> Ruststroom: 0,001 Ampère
> Bediening: Voorzien van het nieuwe Truma CP Plus bedieningspaneel
> Thermostaat: Meegeleverd
> Ventilator: Geïntegreerd
> Verwarmingselement:
> Combi 4 en 6: niet aanwezig
> Combi 4E en 6E: 1800 Watt (2x900 watt)
>
> Opwarmtijd:
> Boiler: +- 20minuten
> Verwarming en boiler: +-80 minuten
>
> Rendement: 97%
> Luchtopbrengst: Maximaal 287m³ per uur
> Maximale waterdruk: 2,8 bar
> Vorstbescherming: Ja, inclusief
> Afmetingen: 510 x 450 x 300 mm (lxbxh)
> Gewicht:
> Combi 4 en 6: 14,5kg
>
> Combi 4E en 6E: 15,6kg
>
> Exclusief: Schoorsteenset en ringverwarming benodigdheden
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Sorry for some dutch in the details, but I think, you get the picture ;)
>
> Good luck!
> Daniel
> --
> Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the
> future brings ....
>
> Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
> So, if you can't find one, be one!
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] surburban furnace swap [message #313181 is a reply to message #313002] |
Tue, 14 February 2017 09:09 |
Handyman
Messages: 229
Registered: April 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Gene,
Yes that is the older type ALDE 3000, now the 3010 and 3020 are the actual types.
Also very reliable. Heater and waterheating in one.
Also standard propane and with additional Electro, 2 heatingstrips, you can choose for one, 1000 watts, the other 2000 watts or combine them to the max of 3000 watts.
Very coveniant for campsites or circuits with lower amperage.
Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
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