Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Refrigerator Advice (12v vs 3 way)
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312002 is a reply to message #311989] |
Tue, 10 January 2017 18:43 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324 Registered: October 2010 Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Tom,
he was asking about electric, so that is why the discussion went that way.
I tried for a few years to stick with my original Norcold, but it just was a battery drainer. I bought a used Dometic RM2652 and I will never look back. My write up is here: http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/search?q=fridge
It took some searching to find the right deal on the fridge, but they show up time to time for sale. I have know a couple people who bought rebuilt ones for $500.
with the propane fridge, it uses so little propane and electricity it is no longer any concern about boondocking. The new problem with the length of time now I can Boondocking is no longer battery, it is now is my black tank capacity.
Palmerdad may find that an concern too. I have 2 kids and a wife and they can fill up the black tank in 24 hours.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312004 is a reply to message #311963] |
Tue, 10 January 2017 19:46 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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James,
Are you ready?? This is a real discussion of a successful case with all the numbers. So, tighten your seat belt and take notes. (I will be available to answer questions when we are back along side.)
Our coach was born with a 3.5Ft 12/120 Nocold. It started to have problems. The first replacement Frigidaire 4.5 was installed with a 49$ 750/1500 watt inverter from Hazard Fright. It was a bust for lots of reasons and did not meet the labeled power requirement. It got us through that season and part of the next. Also, little reefers need airflow up the sides and even after I did some modifications to the space, it was still a problem. The power consumption was high for several reasons. One was the the Chinese cheated and it could never make load and temperature at the same time. It was not an "Energy Star".
The inverter was mounted very close to the house bank. It still frequently complained at compressor start. I had a 3.5DC display on the house bank, and it confirmed the bank sag on starting. It could kill the house bank in a day of dry parking at a July music festival. It also could not reliably freeze two Tupperware ice trays in a day. (That is something the Nocold did do.) Mary did not like the way its doors worked, so that was just another reason to look for a replacement.
Recharging the house bank was also less effective than I expected. We had a PD9145w/CW mounted in back in the electric space across from the head. GMC 23s have the house bank in the right front (Forward Starboard) corner. I kept on checking things, but in retrospect, I was checking wrong. I measured the output of the PD converter (14.4 as I requested)and never measured the actual charge current and only later measured the actual terminal at the house bank. When I did, it was 13.5 and I shrugged it off. (It was right and that was one of my mistakes.) I never used to carry my current probe in the coach. I often do now.
I had talked to the late Dan Greg about his Bogart Trimetric that monitors bank terminal and totalizes current and can provide a state of charge as percent. If you do not have one of these put one in the budget. There are others now that are just as good.
When the situation arose again, I paid more attention. It turned out that the best that the 9145 could do was about 27 amps to a half shot house bank and it tapered down from there. We were forced to run the Onan most of the stay. This was not what I had in mind.
Now I did two things. I started looking for what copper I would need to get near the 45 that the PD should do as I now knew that was part of the problem. After I had filled a spreadsheet with numbers, I knew I could do it if A: I could afford to buy the copper and B: The coach could carry the weight of all that copper. That was not about to happen. I already had an AC line from the inverter to the reefer. So, I got some more boat romex (stranded) and ran another AC line from the panel to the house bank corner for the new converter location. I got a PD9260 to put at the passengers right ankle. The 9260 is about an inch shorter than a 9145 so that helped that choice.
We went reefer shopping again. This time she found a two door 3.5 that was "Energy Star" (also tagged Frigidaire). ES ratings have to be confirmed by testing to standards. This one is real close the the tag rating, even on the CCV (Cheap Chinese Version) inverter with its modified square wave output. I had the opportunity to borrow an high buck pure sine inverter. There was a difference, but I don't think it was a 250$us difference. The compressor starts a little better (subjective) and runs a few (like 10°F) cooler at pump down (getting it cold) much the same as it does on line or APU power.
This is how it has been run for the last six years. And, yes, this reefer will make ice overnight. It will also run on the house bank - a pair of now seven year old GC2s - for a day and an half before I have to crank up the Onan and I get to watch it start charging at 58Amps. It still take about 2-1/2~3 hours to get to 90% SOC. the 9260 will want to set back about there, but that 90% will be good for ~30 hours even if we are making ice.
We sold the first reefer on Craig's list and didn't take too bad a beating. But now think, the second reefer and the inverter together cost just a little over 200$. Compare that to any other choice that is not 120VAC.
There are other changes that I had to make that I will not include was most were personal desires.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: [GMCnet] Refrigerator Advice [message #312005 is a reply to message #312004] |
Tue, 10 January 2017 20:18 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236 Registered: April 2011 Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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I’ll second what Matt has to say, except I have a little more battery (EV 6 Volt cells - think T105, but two inches taller, and 15 lbs heavier), and a Xantrex ProSine 2000, that will really charge them at 75 amps.
I get about two days out of the off brand energy star fridge. I have two computer fans that come on when the compressor runs (those fridges use the sides for heat dissipation).
I’m also using 4 gauge welding cable to run the power around to the Inverter/Charger, which is located behind the fridge, and right below the on demand hot water heater. It’s protected for the leak that will happen.
There’s enough there to run the Coffee Maker, Microwave and the Fridge comfortably. Face it, what else do you need besides a cup of coffee, a bowl of ice cream, and warm left overs!
We use our coach generally for touring.
Dolph
DE AD0LF
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 26’ ex-PalmBeach
1-Ton, Sullybilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission, EV-6010
“The Aluminum and Fiberglass Mistress"
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312013 is a reply to message #311978] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 00:44 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Palmerdad wrote on Tue, 10 January 2017 14:55Thanks everyone for the info. I understand that in the real world a lot depends on the use. I wonder if the energy star ratings account for some kind of "typical" days use opening the door and what not. IF I were to go this route what would be a good battery configuration. Right now the house has one 12v deep cycle battery which the PO had just installed.
Keep the battery that you have. If it goes dead too often, then look at higher capacity battery bank like two 6 volt golf cart batteries in series.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312014 is a reply to message #311963] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 01:35 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Alright, I read this entire thread before commenting.
Your plan to recharge the batteries at a high amperage rate in a few hours will not happen.
On a very low house battery(s) you may see an initial charge rate of 50 amps. But that rate will quickly drop off to 30 amps or less. As the battery takes the charge, the rate will continue to drop until it gets to 2 or 3 amps at full charge. So you can charge the deep cell battery(s) with a very large converter at 13.6 to 14.0 volts but the the battery(s) will only take what is wants. That is just the nature of Lead Acid batteries.
Inverter efficiency
I have always used the published numbers for inverter efficiency. On a runway light project I am working on, we determined that we have a load of about 205 watts in LED bulbs. (I intend to measure it more accurately with a Kilowatt the next time I'm on site.) Based on 200 watts of usage I determined that we should use a 400 watt continuous load - 800 peak inverter.
Since this is a solar application, I am acutely aware of every little load and trying to keep it to a minimum. I measured the inverter consumption of 3 different inverters with no load attached. They read .6 amps to .7 amps at all voltages from 11.0 to 13.8 .
Raising the voltage did not affect the current draw. So now I know the loss to at idle the inverter. 12.6 volts X .65 amps or 8 watts or less. Then I threw 150 watts of resistance load on the inverter and measured the load with a Kilowatt and the input to the inverter with the bench supply that I was using.
The kilowatt said I as consuming 141 watts while the input was 12.6 at 11.76 amps or 148 watts at 37% of load. I increased the load to 250 watts and the numbers came out the same (7 to 8 watts loss).
Huh? This says that the inverter loss was static (the same) at no load and at 37% and 63% of rated capacity. I did not test any higher loads. I have always seen inverter losses rated in percent of load. In the case of these three modified sine wave inverters (two brands) that does not appear to be the case.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312015 is a reply to message #312013] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 02:51 |
Handyman
Messages: 229 Registered: April 2016 Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
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Quote: A Hamilto
..... the next day, run the genset long enough to get it back to 55%, and so on until the battery is toast.
It takes a lot of digesting because the author is long-winded and buries the gold pretty deep in his writing, but the second link I provided says that a battery needs to be brought to WELL OVER 14 volts AND HELD THERE for a lot longer than any commercially available converter/charger will do. An RV converter/charger will run at 13.6 volts or so for a bit then drop off to 13.2 long before the battery is charged. Some SOLAR CHARGE CONTROLLERS can be reprogrammed from factory default to do the job. But an RV converter/charger ain't gonna do it. A converter/charger would need to run a couple of days to completely charge a battery.
Good Morning
Yes that's why I installed as an extra that Chargebooster, it really gets 14,4 volts, or 14,7 for AGM, to the house batteries, even if the alternator would only bring 12,7 volts, or less.
As I wrote before, and Matt and others confirmed it, use thick high quality wires!
As a very nice and handy extra I can recommend the Victron BM700 (series) Battery Monitor.
Installed correctly you get a ton of extra helpfull information about chargestatus, (charge)voltage, Amps that are charging or drained etc ...
It even commes with a seperate Bluetooth module so you can see all the values at your iPhone or Androiddevice.
(In Mai there will be a new model from Victron with that BT-Module already included in the housing)
But as James wants to go for electric, and I can only second that, lets be honnest, propane is convinient for longer stays, boondocking etcetera ....
BUT: You are producing heat to making something colder ...
Effectually you use 10 times more energy to accomplish that.
Furtheron, an absorption fridge has to be good levelled, otherwise its fluid-stream can come to a halt, so it does not cool anymoore, overheating, cristalisation and getting clugged up, and sometimes a flipping upsidedown can revive that fridge, but often you end up with a dead fridge and repairing costs 500$ or more, buying a new one even much more ...
Dometic says, sideways, max of 3 degrees and for/backwards max of 6 degrees, and that are the real limits.
The compressor fridges handels upto max of 30 Degrees!!
Then working at outside temps in the higher values, 80-90 degrees, it comes to its limits and will not cool that effectivly anymore.
The compressor household fridge will be able to cool things down at an exterior temp of 90 without a problem. Freezercompartment is much colder and freezes thoose icecubes much quicker. Opening the door of an absorption fridge during high summertemps, often will make it for the fridge, much more difficult to stay cool, then the compressor fridge ...
The 12v CRX serie of Dometic/Waeco works at 110 degrees outside temp, so it is capable for tropical regions.
The way with a compressor based fridge is much, much more energy sufficient, a Danfoss or Engel compressor is state of the art and there are householdfridges with invertercompressor that are so enerysavers, it is wonderfull to observe
But then I recommend a true-sinus inverter, for optimum functioning
Basicly the problem in our MH's is only the available electricity.
Lets take the several situations and look at them:
At home, you plugged in, to pre-chill your fridge, or keep it running ............ No Problem here, either with 12v or 110/120v Fridge ...
Starting your engine ... your on your way ... No problem, the alternator runs and tops off the batteries and feeds without a problem your fridge.
Reststop, McD, Walmart etc for some hours ... No problem, if you drive again, alternator can charge the batteries.
Stopping at campsite with hookup ... No Problem ...
Overnight parking. Boondocking, there's where you have to calculate, how long and at what chargestate is your housebatterie, this applies to both 12v and householdfridge, with its feed from a inverter. Its all in the numbers.
Where do you get electricity?
Hooked up, through your charger and batterie for the 12 volts Fridge, direct for the 110/120v Fridge.
Driving, through your alternator, going through your batteries, direct for the 12v Fridge, indirect, through the inverter for the household fridge.
Standing still, rest, shopping, boondocking etc... only your housebatteries are the source of electricity ...
BUT ... you can help them, by:
Stocking up your battery capacity, perhaps two 6 volts Golfcart 235 AMPs bats ...
Adding solarpanel(s) and a controller for them, connect it to those poor batteries
(I have solar on the roof, but also recently bought a solar "suitecase" of 150 watts, its easly pointing in the direction of the sun)
Running the generator, from time to time, and perhaps adding an extra charger ...
Buying a very expensive fuel cell, like the: EFOY fuel cells or the HydroMax 150, for off-grid power supplies,
Using other then lead-accid based battery system, also very expensive, but super in use: the LiFeYPO4 battery (Winston).
They need special BMS-systems charging is more demanding, protecting them also, but if all of that is completed, you have a battery that is capable of giving you 90% discharge without any problems, keeping the voltage at a very stable, high level and as an extra they are much more lighter then the lead-accid batteries ... and yes, again, I know, they are much more expensive!! Still look at durabillity and the many more cycles they can give, and it is a matter of doing your math ...
http://www.nothnagel-marine.de/index.php?cat=c289_LiFeYPO4-Einzelkomponenten-Sets.html&language=en
Sorry for this european link, but I am sure there are many US-Suppliers. I know of Advanced RV in Ohio I think how has experience with those Litiumion bats. Also Pleasure Way uses them more and more in their new RV's.
To complete the whole, you could also use a marine-based wind generator, but then you need wind
But it works well, iff you set it up the right way. Perhaps, Matt can, as being a specialist on boats, ships and all mechanics and electrics around them, give you more tips on that, if necessary.
Last but not least ... ... ... take a bike, put it on a stand, mount the wheel against a roller and got you a cheap working alternator from the junkyard, connect the cables ... and start pusshing those pedals ... (Just kidding)
BTW. At a french campsite, there was an older french guy who had mounted a alternator through a water wheel, in a little stream nearby, and got continious charge for his battery in his RV (He lived there the whole year)
Friends of ours, who are 75+ and don't travel that far anymore, had recently a broke down of their 3-way fridge (18 years old), I helped them, installed a household fridge that fitted almost perfectly in the old cabinetspace, and did NOT bother to install an inverter, because their current short trips always brings them in less then an hour to their favorite campsites, with full hookup, the fridge cools at home and stays without electricity cool in that short period of time... They are completely happy with this solution.
James, all of it comes down to making choices, in your case, going so often to campsites with hookups, i would go to compressor fridge, either 12v or 110/120v household fridge. Look at what size you really need and choose. And for those few moments that you are longer boondocking, perhaps enlarge your battery, because those 100 amps you are having now is allready too little, in my opinion.
We had a 130+30 liter Dometic 3-way in our MH, but I sold it and we are now totally happy with the 110 liter Waeco Coolmatic CRX-110.
Here a photo of it installed, I used the spare space below for more storage (Pots, Pans etc)
Also a photo of the foldable Solarpanels, it has its own solarregulator, and I make a connection to the housebatteries, by using Anderson connections, it is some better and more important, safer, then the batteryclamps that came with it.
BTW: I took out one of thoose shelfs of the fridge, they limited the available space more then you would gain on storage.
Good luck with it !!
Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
[Updated on: Wed, 11 January 2017 05:20] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312016 is a reply to message #311963] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 04:45 |
Handyman
Messages: 229 Registered: April 2016 Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
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Here photo's of the installed Votronic VCC 1212-45, which does a good job in charging the batteries while driving.
And has a Characteristic Line of Charging: IU1oU2
The most easy way to understand its function, is to compare it to a state of the art 110/120v Battery charger, but now the input is not 110/120v but the available current from the alternator. And giving that alternator a lower chargelevel of the battery, by "fooling" it, and letting it still keep charging, even if the starterbattery is full (and that mostly happens very fast) Controling and transforming those current and amps to a higher level if necessary.
Info at: http://www.votronic.de/index.php/en/products2/series-vcc/standard-version/vcc-1212-45
As you can see I have two 12volts GEL batteries of each 80 AMP so the total is 160 AMPS (This was stock at this MH) In case they need replacement I think I will change them in either Lead Crystal or LithiumIon batteries.
Another view from the other side:
Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
[Updated on: Wed, 11 January 2017 05:15] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312021 is a reply to message #311963] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 09:52 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Way over thinking. Buy a Norcold made in USA 3 way RV frig.
120V at campground. Free. 12V going down road or briefly during fuel stops. Propane for extended stops or dry camping. It will run longer than the expiration dates on the food on one tank of propane. The inverter efficiencies have been too generous in these discussions especially if not true sine wave where you loose at the inverter and at load (refer) as far as efficiency.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312024 is a reply to message #311963] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 10:46 |
Handyman
Messages: 229 Registered: April 2016 Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
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@John,
James wants a compressor fridge, but you are absolutly right, there are definnetly situations were a 3-way fridge is the best choise, and also situations were a compressor fridge is the right choice.
All the things to be considered, like running time of grid, level of the coach, cooling capacity, removing the propanetank, etc, etc.
And of course what are you willing to pay for your solution.
If I rarely boondock like James does, and want a simple solution, getting rid of the propanetank, cooking with electricity and incidental heating with a buddyheater or electricity .... Eventualy stocking up his battery capacity. Adding perhaps a little solar ...
We boondock al lot and still having no problem, but then we mostly drive every day some miles, sometimes staying an extra day, but then during summer also no problems (solar charging)
For me I did swap the 3-way out, sold it for a good price, added a few bucks and got me at a marineshop a very good deal on the Waeco, and since we didden't use all that space in the big 3-way, this one is more then sufficiënt. At max it consumes, less than 3 amps/hour !
This weekend, it was about 20-25 degrees F, ALDE heater running all day, temp inside the MH, about 66 degrees F, I saw a draw of 2-3 amps while the fridge was running, and there were long times it did not needed to run. Draw in an hour 1-2 amps !! Total for all electra consumption 45 amps/24 hours !
The CRX series is capable of running at lower speed, only if there is an higher surrounding temperatur, it draws max 5-6 amps, but not all the time.
@Jerry
Quote:Bottom line, at least for me, is you cannot beat propane for space heating, water heating and running the refer while dry camping in a GMC. In another presentation made at the GMCWS rally in Coos Bay, OR, in October of this year I also talked about running our Onan generators on propane, as well: http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Feeding-the-Barbarian-Jerry-Work.pdf Once you make that switch you will never look back at things like home refers and massive battery banks because your Onan will start easily, run quieter and more smoothly, outlast you and the next several owners and have no more ugly exhaust smell so you can run it easily and as often as you need to to keep everything in your GMC running comfortably whether plugged into shore power or not.
For heating and cooking we still will be on the propane path
So for everybody it comes down to making a choise whats best for them.
This combination of electric and propane use works great for us. Futheron we love the speed and cooling with higher temps, of the compressorfridge.
Thanks, Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312025 is a reply to message #312015] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 10:50 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324 Registered: October 2010 Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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I have to disagree on efficiency of the propane fridge. I do not know how you can compare it to the electric fridge, but my GMC fridge never seems to ever effect the level of propane in my coach. Have ran it a week on propane and not noticed any difference in my propane gauge. Only time I see that go down, is when I run the furnace. The same with our propane fridge out at our hunting camp(old residential one). we do not change the 100 pound propane tank during the summer, only when we start running the heat.
as far as how long they take to cool down, I think the books are off on that, or they are talking about larger fridges then mine. It maybe takes a couple of hours. I usually turn mine on, and fill it up. between the cold food and drinks, and the fridge starting to work, I do not notice it ever not cool enough for the food/drinks. I do have a temp gauge in the fridge, and watch it occasionally. cool down time is not a real problem. I could see that an issue on some of the bigger RV fridges I see in SOB's. Some are 2-3 times my dometic. I think what I have is a 6 cu ft. I will admit I do not track my freezer, maybe that takes longer to get to freezing than the fridge side takes to get below 40.
I also have no issues with my fridge working when it is hot out. I leave my fridge on, and no A/C and it can be 110+ in the coach, and it keeps the fridge temp fine. I have helped 2 friends SOB's with some poor cooling issues when it got hot out, and one was propane pressure, the other needed the gas jet cleaned.
as for running it level or not level, 3 degrees is alot. I think we have to drop the back 12" down before we are out starting to get out of spec.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=26+ft+*+sin+3+degrees+in+ft
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
[Updated on: Wed, 11 January 2017 10:56] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312028 is a reply to message #311963] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 11:31 |
Handyman
Messages: 229 Registered: April 2016 Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
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No problem Jon, I fully agree with you, that they don't use that much propane, it was rather in terms of how much energy a cooling unit uses it working as an absorption, or compression running fridge. Propane fridge uses about 7-10 times more energy to do the same.
But that is not the issue here.
And if you have a very big propanetank, I also would not see a difference if the fridge runs for a few days.
Fact is, little fridges uses up to 300 grams, the big ones up to 450 grams propane per 24 hours.
Also a fact is that the older propanefridges did a better job then the newer ones.
They tried to bring the propane consumption to much down, but that made the cooling capacity at higher temps, worse ...
And of course cleaning your propane fridge from time to time, doing the necessairy maintanance is a normal thing, many people forget.
But for both systems are pros and cons.
As for 12 volts or 110/120v household fridges.
We even can start arguing about the different brands, Dometic, Waeco, Norcold, etc ...
FWIIW, we all try to contribute in a solution for James, and I must admit, I also learn and hear things I did not know or was not aware of.
Thanks to you all for that ! Let that input comming ...
Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312030 is a reply to message #311963] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 12:02 |
Palmerdad
Messages: 60 Registered: August 2016 Location: Traverse City
Karma: 0
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So my conclusion after all of this is that an electric fridge will work for our uses.... EXCEPT for our 3-4 days in Yellowstone without hook ups. But I don't really want to invest a great deal of money to get us set up just for those few days when most of our use will be on shore power.
So I'm trying to think outside of the box now for those several days. What if I bought a block of dry ice right before entering Yellowstone and stuck it in the fridge? Perhaps that would maintain the temp in the fridge well enough that it wouldn't have to run as much and enable us to make it through. Remember, I do have the genset and will be driving the GMC around the park every day as well.
Thoughts? Anyone ever tried this before? (Thanks for playing along with all of my hypothetical questions!)
-James Palmer, Traverse City, MI
1976 Eleganza
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312031 is a reply to message #312030] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 12:12 |
Handyman
Messages: 229 Registered: April 2016 Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
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Hi James,
Not a bad idea, and since you drive around, it could work.
Perhaps if you stock up your battery ... Driving, battery and generator should work, adding your extra cold-buffer ... Good move, test it at home, first.
I know the roads there since we did visit Yellowstone, last year, we stayed three days at the park, coming from Grand Teton .... Wonderfull trip!
BTW. Adding something more to this very interesting thread .... A 3-way fridge, running on propane still needs about 1 amp/hour of 12 volt, just for the controlunit .... So my CRX-110 which needs at its max 2-3 Amps/hour .... Does no bad job at all ....
Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312032 is a reply to message #311963] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 12:23 |
Handyman
Messages: 229 Registered: April 2016 Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
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Sorry forgot to tell ...
James, we stayed in Yellowstone at the Fishing Bridge RV Park, with our rental MH, last year.
They had electricity !!
We could easy drive from there to the different viewpoints.
Perhaps if you plan one day there, make a reservation and you will be on the safe side.
Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312033 is a reply to message #312030] |
Wed, 11 January 2017 12:52 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324 Registered: October 2010 Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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I did the dry ice thing a couple times, a couple different ways(dry ice only, and dry ice and regular ice). I do not advise. It made the fridge cooler, but did not last, or keep other ice from melting faster. It was not worth the extra hassle or cost then just using normal ice. It may work for your freezer?? but what are you trying to keep frozen during that time?
I would suggest that you just use regular ice, it is easy to come by, and very cheap. I used the drawers in my old norcold and just kept them filled up with ice, and it really helped the battery consumption. YOu might not even need to run the fridge if you have good seals. You will find the black tank will be filling fast. My wife and two daughters get only 1 shower when we camp, and I need to be dumping. They usually will use the showers at the campsites.
Yellowstone is on the list with the GMC, I understand our coaches can be perfect to see the different parts of the park, I have read many great traveling stories. Some bring a car, some rent a car, and others just use the motorhome as the car. Let us know what you do and how it works, someday I will make that trek with mine.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
[Updated on: Wed, 11 January 2017 12:53] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Refrigerator Advice [message #312086 is a reply to message #312016] |
Fri, 13 January 2017 03:06 |
Handyman
Messages: 229 Registered: April 2016 Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 2
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Handyman wrote on Wed, 11 January 2017 11:45Here photo's of the installed Votronic VCC 1212-45, which does a good job in charging the batteries while driving.
And has a Characteristic Line of Charging: IU1oU2
The most easy way to understand its function, is to compare it to a state of the art 110/120v Battery charger, but now the input is not 110/120v but the available current from the alternator. And giving that alternator a lower chargelevel of the battery, by "fooling" it, and letting it still keep charging, even if the starterbattery is full (and that mostly happens very fast) Controling and transforming those current and amps to a higher level if necessary.
Info at: http://www.votronic.de/index.php/en/products2/series-vcc/standard-version/vcc-1212-45
[......................]
Daniel
Here some additional info:
http://www.votronic.de/Library/Catalogue-Sites/Charging-Converter.pdf
Note: They dropped the 25 Amps and switched to a 30 Amps 1212 version.
Also more types for the LitiumIon batteries.
ICW a 12v or 120v with inverter Fridge I see very quick and strong charging during our trip.
ICE you could even let your engine running at idle, and still get maximum charging.
Daniel
Daniel Jacobs, NL-USA 1977 GMC Eleganza II, Rebuild 455 (2019) 3.55 FD. FiTech and (Modified) FCC, Electric Pump, insulated GasTanks, 100A Alternator, APC, McDash, Schräder Valves + extern Fills, Ceramic Film, TPMS, FlexSteel Seats
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