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| Suggestions for a new water pump? [message #310348] |
Mon, 14 November 2016 19:25  |
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GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199
Registered: September 2016
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Hello All, hope your week is off to a good start.
I'm making progress on the interior refresh of my 75 Royale. Still in the deconstruction and clean-up phase, I never realized just how challenging it would be removing 40 year-old carpeting with a million staples.
I need to replace my fresh water pump, the unit in the coach hums under power but doesn't pump so I guess I'll need to replace it. The model is a Whisper King - Shurflo, 2.0 GPM - 30 psi. http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61672-water-pump-2.html
What do you suggest as a replacement?
Also, I used the through-the-floor drain to empty the water tank in order to remove it, I noticed what appears to be another line that enters the floor with a tap. I don't know what this is, any ideas? http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61679-water-line-with-tap.html
Thanks for your input,
Regards,
Mike
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suggestions for a new water pump? [message #310350 is a reply to message #310348] |
Mon, 14 November 2016 19:43  |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Mike,
I just ordered this from E-bay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-SHURflo-12V-3-0-GPM-RV-Water-Pump-4008-101-A65-Revolution-/122209546003?hash=item1c7441af13:g:tt0AAOSwhDdXDwNt&vxp=mtr
Where does the extra water line come from?
On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Mike wrote:
> Hello All, hope your week is off to a good start.
>
> I'm making progress on the interior refresh of my 75 Royale. Still in the
> deconstruction and clean-up phase, I never realized just how challenging it
> would be removing 40 year-old carpeting with a million staples.
>
> I need to replace my fresh water pump, the unit in the coach hums under
> power but doesn't pump so I guess I'll need to replace it. The model is a
> Whisper King - Shurflo, 2.0 GPM - 30 psi. http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/
> photos/my-75-royale/p61672-water-pump-2.html
>
> What do you suggest as a replacement?
>
> Also, I used the through-the-floor drain to empty the water tank in order
> to remove it, I noticed what appears to be another line that enters the
> floor with a tap. I don't know what this is, any ideas?
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61679-
> water-line-with-tap.html
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suggestions for a new water pump? [message #310353 is a reply to message #310348] |
Mon, 14 November 2016 20:52 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mike,
That tap is to allow you to drain the lines themselves. It SHOULD be at
the lowest point of that plumbing area.
Dropping back to your earlier questions about the level sensors in the
fresh water and holding tanks. I've been a little out of touch, so haven't
previously given you my experience with Coachmen level sensors/displays: I
think all Coachmen-built GMC's used the same basic system: Well nuts for
sensors with a gold panel bearing 2 meters for LPG level and Battery
Voltage, an Onan hours meter, an Onan Start/Stop switch, and illuminating
indicators for the level of a selected tank. My Birchaven was so equipped,
as has been every other Coachmen I've seen.
The electronics on the back side of the indicator panel is, naturally,
right out of the early '70's: Discrete transistors are plugging into
"turret sockets", and they're in the most fundamental circuits possible --
a minimum of resistors and other components to improve performance. The
well nuts, as they're called, which you reported having, IIRC, 8 of in your
fresh water tank should have one of the columns' nuts connected together
and back to the panel. Each of those in the second column should be
connected, by color code, to the base of a transistor on the panel. When
the water level reaches each of those individually connected nuts, current
flows between the common column and that nut and then to the base of the
corresponding transistor on the panel. When that base current flows, the
light bulb connected to the transistor illuminates to tell you that water's
at that level. The holding tank sensor system works the same and feeds,
IIRC, the same set of transistors, dependent upon which switch is
actuated. Because the height of the holding tanks is so low, there's
probably only one "common" well nut serving the 4 level sensor nuts. In
fact, my fresh water tank has only the 5 nuts rather than the 8 you
report. There's a good chance someone added the other 3 to try to improve
performance.
Performance is, at best, poor. The design was always marginal. The toll
taken by 40 years of corrosion of the sockets into which the transistors
are plugged, the development of current leakage paths on the board, and
deterioration of the various components all mean that you'll be lucky to
ever get even marginal performance from that system again -- the sense
currents are simply too low to be reliable, even under optimal conditions.
When I got my coach I spent some time and effort, including replacement of
all the transistors, trying get mine to work decently. Even my EE degrees
didn't teach me how to achieve that. It never worked any better than any
of the other systems I had over the previous 30 years. :-(
Probably the most reliable, though not necessarily very accurate, indicator
system are those using capacitive pickups. That is, those with large
aluminum pads which stick to the outside of the tanks and are wired to
dedicated indicator panel. I've had some luck with those in the various
SOB's I've owned over the past 50 years. But, I'll readily admit that the
most reliable level indicator, for the fresh water, is a light behind the
translucent tank so you can visually check the level. For the gray water
(which we Coachmen owners are blessed with), the bathtub is the best
indicator -- when water won't drain from it, you PROBABLY need to dump the
gray water. I wouldn't even consider owning a GMC-fitted coach with
gray+black tanks. :-(
RE: Water Pump. Over the past few months, thie mail order outfit listed
below has has a number of sales on water pumps suitable for GMC use,
especially FloJet and some Jabsco, both respected brands. I can't &
wouldn't try to, suggest a specific model, but I would suggest one with
specs of at least 40 psi and 2 gmp output. I would also seriously suggest
adding an accumulator to the system. I prefer a large (1+gallon) one to
the small ones offered by most pump manufacturers because they allow you to
use the toilet a time or two at night without the pump disturbing anyone.
The small ones only eliminate faucet flow variations -- still a useful
feature.
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/searchprods.asp
HTH,
Ken H.
On, Nov 14, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Mike wrote:
> Hello All, hope your week is off to a good start.
>
> I'm making progress on the interior refresh of my 75 Royale. Still in the
> deconstruction and clean-up phase, I never realized just how challenging it
> would be removing 40 year-old carpeting with a million staples.
>
> I need to replace my fresh water pump, the unit in the coach hums under
> power but doesn't pump so I guess I'll need to replace it. The model is a
> Whisper King - Shurflo, 2.0 GPM - 30 psi. http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/
> photos/my-75-royale/p61672-water-pump-2.html
>
> What do you suggest as a replacement?
>
> Also, I used the through-the-floor drain to empty the water tank in order
> to remove it, I noticed what appears to be another line that enters the
> floor with a tap. I don't know what this is, any ideas?
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61679-
> water-line-with-tap.html
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suggestions for a new water pump? [message #310354 is a reply to message #310350] |
Mon, 14 November 2016 21:00 |
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GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199
Registered: September 2016
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Hello Bruce, thanks for the suggestion on the water pump, I will check into this unit.
Regarding the water line, I will attach a few more links which will provide a wider view,A) looking towards the rear of the coach, this line travels to the right in the image / towards the drivers side, http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61681-img-5159.html
another shot, B) will show the line leading to the bathroom area, I believe this services the bathroom and kitchen, http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61683-img-5182.html
the next image C) will show the line going towards the water tank, left in the image / passenger side, http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61680-img-5140.html
Is this another drain?
Thanks,
Mike
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suggestions for a new water pump? [message #310356 is a reply to message #310354] |
Mon, 14 November 2016 21:45 |
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GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199
Registered: September 2016
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Ken, thank-you for the detailed explanation.
Will opening the tap allow the lines to drain outside the coach similar to through-the-floor drain from the water tank?
Regarding the sensors, I understand the system I have is a capacitance system, do I understand this correctly?
I'm not sure if you saw my images of the front and rear of the control panel in my Royale, however, I believe your assessment is spot on.
Front of panel, http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61684-control-panel-6.html
Rear of panel A) http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61685-control-panel-4.html
B) http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61686-control-panel-7.html
I should probably replace this panel, is there a more efficient panel or system I should consider?
The tech that did my PPI indicated that the shower was draining slowly so maybe this calls for a grey water flush? He indicated that he filled it to check for leaks, I'm not sure if he drained it. He also indicated that the gauge reading the water level would only go to 3/4 full even when he filled it.
Thanks again for the help,
Regards,
Mike
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suggestions for a new water pump? [message #310361 is a reply to message #310356] |
Mon, 14 November 2016 22:51 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mike,
Yes, the outlet of that tap should merely go through the floor.
No, your system is NOT a capacitive system. It's a simple probe & light
system just as I described. Your panel is Coachmen OEM and will not work
with the large capacitance pads I mentioned; that requires entirely
different electronic circuitry. The panel has had a few mods: Added Onan
prime switch and changed Start/Stop switch, and an added fuse for ? reason.
I can't really suggest a system. I bought a capacitive system when I was
at JimK's place 3 years ago but haven't bothered to install it. That will
require making a new face plate, the same size as the Coachmen OEM, on
which to mount the new panel -- some of the OEM switches and displays will
have to be retained as they are not on the new one.
There is a P-trap on the tub drain. It's probably never been removed and
cleaned -- it may not even be possible without removing the tub (which
means the walls too). A small plumber's "snake" is probably the best way
to clean it. Since I completely replaced everything in my bath (coach, for
that matter) 18 years ago, I can't tell you the details of yours -- CRS.
You're 'way ahead of the game if your 1/4, 1/2, & 3/4 lights illuminate.
The 4/4 one is likely either burned out (they are regular incandescent
bulbs -- no LED's in the 70'), or the transistor is either failed or
corroded.
Good luck -- which you can improve by going to a few GMC rallies and
enlisting a mentor or two to go over the coach with you on-the-spot. We
usually have a formal Mentor program at GMCMI Conventions.
Ken H.
On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Mike wrote:
> Ken, thank-you for the detailed explanation.
>
> Will opening the tap allow the lines to drain outside the coach similar to
> through-the-floor drain from the water tank?
>
> Regarding the sensors, I understand the system I have is a capacitance
> system, do I understand this correctly?
>
> I'm not sure if you saw my images of the front and rear of the control
> panel in my Royale, however, I believe your assessment is spot on.
>
> Front of panel, http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61684-
> control-panel-6.html
>
> Rear of panel A) http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61685-
> control-panel-4.html
> B) http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p61686-
> control-panel-7.html
>
> I should probably replace this panel, is there a more efficient panel or
> system I should consider?
>
> The tech that did my PPI indicated that the shower was draining slowly so
> maybe this calls for a grey water flush? He indicated that he filled it to
> check for leaks, I'm not sure if he drained it. He also indicated that the
> gauge reading the water level would only go to 3/4 full even when he filled
> it.
>
> Thanks again for the help,
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Suggestions for a new water pump? [message #310365 is a reply to message #310348] |
Tue, 15 November 2016 03:51 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Let me make a suggestion before you replace that pump. These water pumps do NOT like pumping air. If there is no water right at the pump most of the time they will not pump the air put to get to the water in the line.
So if the pump has air in the intake line you need to figure out some way to get the air out and fill the pump intake line with water. Then turn the pump on again and see if it will now pump water out of the tank.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Suggestions for a new water pump? [message #310369 is a reply to message #310348] |
Tue, 15 November 2016 06:11 |
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GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199
Registered: September 2016
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Ken Henderson, thanks once again for taking the time to provide a response and detailed explanation.
Regarding the mods to the panel, the Onan "prime" switch, I don't believe it works or at least this is what I recall from speaking with the tech. The generator starts and shuts off from both inside at the panel and at the unit. I was told the choke may be the cause of starting issues from inside when the weather gets cold.
The added fuse is also a mystery, I'm not sure what it does, if it works or why it was added, any way to determine this or is my only option speaking with previous owners?
If there isn't an updated system which is a straight forward upgrade to my OEM, should I simply clean everything up and continue using it?
I will address the shower drain by doing as suggested, you never know.
A GMCMI rally is on the list, the mentor program with a hands on view of things would be ideal especially at this moment as I make my way through this refresh, but I'm sure there will always be something that requires fixing or updating.
Your help is appreciated,
Stay Well,
Mike
[Updated on: Tue, 15 November 2016 06:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Suggestions for a new water pump? [message #310405 is a reply to message #310370] |
Tue, 15 November 2016 20:40 |
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JShot
Messages: 485
Registered: October 2006
Location: NW Ohio
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Mike - monitor panel
I think this is what Ken H was talking about with the aluminum strips used on the outside of the tanks. This is what we went with after our Royale (Coachmen) monitor panel went belly up. We love it. Install was very straight forward. We used the existing wires from the tanks to the old monitor panel. Just cut the wires off at the tanks, and left the old screws in the holes there. Check it out.
https://tankedge.com/products.html
Let me know if you want a few pics - I'll send you some.
John
John Shotwell
Ridgeville Corners, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
[Updated on: Tue, 15 November 2016 20:45] Report message to a moderator |
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