Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's
| Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's [message #307344] |
Sun, 18 September 2016 15:08  |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Good afternoon all,
Just got back from showing my coach at Renningers Antique Mall Glamping vintage camper event in Mt Dora, Florida. Must have had at least a hundred walk through on Saturday afternoon. I was the only GMC there. Had people that where in electric wheel chairs have their assistant help them out so they could get inside to see it, the first word out of every bodies mouth was "WOW" then the next was "look at all the room". It's just a simple canyon lands layout but I guess compared to the room in some of the new sprinter based RV's it's a lot of room. If anyone if familiar with the place the drive ways in are like switchbacks in the mountains, The issue I have questions on was real prevalant while manuvering my way in and out plus getting back to the dump station. When I would hard left turn, not right hand issues, particularly going up hill it was like the front end almost wanted to crow hop like a 4WDd drive truck that got left in 4WD and put on the pavement. I recently went to a 3.7 final drive when the 3.21 went out and wasted itself along with the transmission. That story is next week on Springer. I had been running alcoas all around at that time with LT225/75R16 TA's, Had to get 2 new tires and decided to put them on the front,I went with My Dodge Rims, I used run, with LT245/75R16 Michelin Defender LTX's M/S's, suppose to be the best all around and most durable for what we can put a tire through. It also brought my RPM back to the range a 3.55 FD would be. Happy with everything but the crowhop, I noticed it on flat pavement, left hand only also, but I attributed to my heavy foot, when you climb a hill or mountain you've got to give a little more juice, then it shows up. Never noticed it with the BF goodrich AT radials I ran before on the Dodge rims or with the alcoas and standard size like the back. Any ideals, I even thought maybe to much pressure on one side in back but it drives to good otherwise except for the torque steer it has always had and which goes away as soon as the accceleration is over and your loping along. Appreciate any thoughts or ideals, the crowhopping can't be good on it. Please excuse my writing style, my teachers all called me the "king of run on sentences".
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's [message #307352 is a reply to message #307344] |
Sun, 18 September 2016 17:39  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Skip,
IIRC the Dodge rims have a greater offset than the OEM rims which results in the wheels moving outward increasing the track.
The OEM front end is designed so that the steering axis goes through (or close to) the center of the tire:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p56759-steering-axis.html
Increasing the wheel offset increases the distance between the center of the tire and the steering axis which will increase the
probability of "crow hopping" which I interpret as torque steer.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Skip Hartline
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 6:08 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's
Good afternoon all,
Just got back from showing my coach at Renningers Antique Mall Glamping vintage camper event in Mt Dora, Florida. Must have had at
least a hundred walk through on Saturday afternoon. I was the only GMC there. Had people that where in electric wheel chairs have
their assistant help them out so they could get inside to see it, the first word out of every bodies mouth was "WOW" then the next
was "look at all the room". It's just a simple canyon lands layout but I guess compared to the room in some of the new sprinter
based RV's it's a lot of room. If anyone if familiar with the place the drive ways in are like switchbacks in the mountains, The
issue I have questions on was real prevalant while manuvering my way in and out plus getting back to the dump station. When I would
hard left turn, not right hand issues, particularly going up hill it was like the front end almost wanted to crow hop like a 4WDd
drive truck that got left in 4WD and put on the pavement. I recently went to a 3.7 final drive when the 3.21 went out and wasted
itself along with the transmission. That story is next week on Springer. I had been running alcoas all around at that time with
LT225/75R16 TA's, Had to get 2 new tires and decided to put them on the front,I went with My Dodge Rims, I used run, with
LT245/75R16 Michelin Defender LTX's M/S's, suppose to be the best all around and most durable for what we can put a tire through. It
also brought my RPM back to the range a 3.55 FD would
be. Happy with everything but the crowhop, I noticed it on flat pavement, left hand only also, but I attributed to my heavy foot,
when you climb a hill or mountain you've got to give a little more juice, then it shows up. Never noticed it with the BF goodrich AT
radials I ran before on the Dodge rims or with the alcoas and standard size like the back. Any ideals, I even thought maybe to much
pressure on one side in back but it drives to good otherwise except for the torque steer it has always had and which goes away as
soon as the accceleration is over and your loping along. Appreciate any thoughts or ideals, the crowhopping can't be good on it.
Please excuse my writing style, my teachers all called me the "king of run on sentences".
Skip Hartline
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's [message #307354 is a reply to message #307352] |
Sun, 18 September 2016 18:13 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Thanks for the reply, The crow hopping is like when a crow jumps across the ground and my torque steer, which it has always had and now that you mention it the Dodge rims exacerbate the condition, is that there is a pull to the right and has to be corrected till the throttle is let off then it goes away. I have a new mount in front and better ones in the back. Not saying that the offset in the Dodge rims couldn't cause it but why is the problem of the crow hop is only during left turns only. I do know when I tried the offset spacers available on the alcoas it was like a go kart, to quick of response for me and I had to take them off.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's [message #307359 is a reply to message #307354] |
Sun, 18 September 2016 19:38 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Skip,
Try similar turns on a large level parking lot to see if you feel any
"pulsing" in the steering wheel. I'm thinking at a worn CV joint might
cause the effect you report.
Ken H.
On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 7:13 PM, Skip Hartline
wrote:
> Rob,
> Thanks for the reply, The crow hopping is like when a crow jumps across
> the ground and my torque steer, which it has always had and now that you
> mention it the Dodge rims exacerbate the condition, is that there is a
> pull to the right and has to be corrected till the throttle is let off then
> it
> goes away. I have a new mount in front and better ones in the back. Not
> saying that the offset in the Dodge rims couldn't cause it but why is the
> problem of the crow hop is only during left turns only. I do know when I
> tried the offset spacers available on the alcoas it was like a go kart, to
> quick of response for me and I had to take them off.
> Skip Hartline
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's [message #307363 is a reply to message #307354] |
Sun, 18 September 2016 20:19 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Skip,
I'm sorry but I just don't understand "crow hopping."
I Googled "crow hopping" and here's what came up:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/aa-miscellaneous-photos/p56759-steering-axis.html
As you can see there's nothing that relates to vehicle steering.
Here's the same thing for torque steer:
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=torque%20steer
Please confirm that your problem is torque steer.
I'd say it's pulling to the left as that's the wheel that's applying power to the road.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Skip Hartline
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 9:14 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's
Rob,
Thanks for the reply, The crow hopping is like when a crow jumps across the ground and my torque steer, which it has always had and
now that you mention it the Dodge rims exacerbate the condition, is that there is a pull to the right and has to be corrected till
the throttle is let off then it goes away. I have a new mount in front and better ones in the back. Not saying that the offset in
the Dodge rims couldn't cause it but why is the problem of the crow hop is only during left turns only. I do know when I tried the
offset spacers available on the alcoas it was like a go kart, to quick of response for me and I had to take them off.
Skip Hartline
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's [message #307365 is a reply to message #307364] |
Sun, 18 September 2016 20:50 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Crow hopping is an old redneck term we used when a 4wd would go from loose ground to solid ground and you try to turn and the automatic transfer case hadn't disengaged or the hubs were still locked in on a solid front axle and there was power still being applied and the vehicle would sometimes actually jump to the side. We may have 2 separate problems at the same time , the torque steer Is not new. I've read that torque steer definition referring to front wheel drive vehicles.
Skip
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's [message #307381 is a reply to message #307373] |
Mon, 19 September 2016 06:07 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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You just made me think of something. I filled the water tank in the right rear behind the wheels when I headed out because the last time I went to Rinningers I had no water hook up. I usually run no more than 30% full I had it over 80%, I wonder if that extra weight behind the wheels helped pick up the left front a little making the original issue worse. Just a thought.
Skip
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's [message #307393 is a reply to message #307344] |
Mon, 19 September 2016 10:01 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Really sounds like a CV joint is binding when turned that far. Had many, many FWD cars with this symptom repaired with a new or reman CV axle assembly. Also had a few where the problem was the outer bearing (hub bearing) was loose but not making the usual noise when rolling down the road. Your switching tires and rims has probably amplified the problem instead of damping it and that's why it showed up coincidentally.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's [message #307425 is a reply to message #307344] |
Mon, 19 September 2016 17:28 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Ken H:"It could be either one, but since the inside wheel turns more than the
outer one..."
You refer to the angle of the wheel in the turn? It will rotate less.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Renningers glamping and Michelin Defender LTX's [message #307467 is a reply to message #307344] |
Tue, 20 September 2016 08:59 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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It's easy to burn rubber on the inside wheel turning and accelerating at the same time. The new tires at full tread depth may be biting better untill the break away point threshold. Before it may have been a more consistent slip which did not setup a feedback oscillation. Also is your front weight balance even? Remember, vehicles are systems and everything effects everything else. Wheels that place the steering axis NOT at the wheel CL are a profound change especially with front wheel drive.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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