Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] manual trans
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306297 is a reply to message #306241] |
Thu, 01 September 2016 09:53   |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Brian,
Not saying that it cannot be done, but it has been tried by several people a number of years ago and it always came up to available space to get an alternate engine ( In this case a Cad Northstar), and transmission to fit the chassis. The Available engines that are available that do fit including the 403/455 are the Cad 500+ are a direct fit. All the rest, starting with the BB Chevies 427 thru 502 and the 8.1, Mannys Diesel kit and the GM 6.1 diesel out of the trucks some sort of an adapter setup to complete the installation. The real problem is finding a transmission that would work in the foot print and a durable modern adaptable power unit with enough torque to move the load down the road.
Again this all comes down to how much you want to spend. Just for a rebuild or repower with the Cad you at $5K to $7K, the BB Chevies are $8K to $9K. The 8.1 by Lenzi is an awesome kit but will set you back at close to $10K+ plus the cost of the 8.1. I was at his shop this summer and he has a half dozen+ 8.1 in the shop being converted, so there will be fair number on the road in the next year or so. Mannys Diesel is an awesome kit with an all new power unit build for our coaches, but its cost is north of $10K. The 6.1 ( I think that is the size ) diesel has been around for about 15 years and it has been done a number of times with great success. Again it all comes down on how much you want to spend to play.
Regards,
JR Wright
> On Aug 31, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Brian Waddell wrote:
>
> Johnny brought up a subject I have thought of before....A modern manual,possibly 6 sp?, transmission in the gmc motorhome coupled to the 455 eng...what say you people who are capable of considering and DOING this....brian 77 ele 455
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306298 is a reply to message #306297] |
Thu, 01 September 2016 09:56 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
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I also forgot about Hal StClair Diesel installation which looks good too.
JR Wright
> On Sep 1, 2016, at 10:53 AM, John Wright wrote:
>
> Brian,
> Not saying that it cannot be done, but it has been tried by several people a number of years ago and it always came up to available space to get an alternate engine ( In this case a Cad Northstar), and transmission to fit the chassis. The Available engines that are available that do fit including the 403/455 are the Cad 500+ are a direct fit. All the rest, starting with the BB Chevies 427 thru 502 and the 8.1, Mannys Diesel kit and the GM 6.1 diesel out of the trucks some sort of an adapter setup to complete the installation. The real problem is finding a transmission that would work in the foot print and a durable modern adaptable power unit with enough torque to move the load down the road.
>
> Again this all comes down to how much you want to spend. Just for a rebuild or repower with the Cad you at $5K to $7K, the BB Chevies are $8K to $9K. The 8.1 by Lenzi is an awesome kit but will set you back at close to $10K+ plus the cost of the 8.1. I was at his shop this summer and he has a half dozen+ 8.1 in the shop being converted, so there will be fair number on the road in the next year or so. Mannys Diesel is an awesome kit with an all new power unit build for our coaches, but its cost is north of $10K. The 6.1 ( I think that is the size ) diesel has been around for about 15 years and it has been done a number of times with great success. Again it all comes down on how much you want to spend to play.
>
> Regards,
>
> JR Wright
>
>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Brian Waddell wrote:
>>
>> Johnny brought up a subject I have thought of before....A modern manual,possibly 6 sp?, transmission in the gmc motorhome coupled to the 455 eng...what say you people who are capable of considering and DOING this....brian 77 ele 455
>> _______________________________________________
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306394 is a reply to message #306298] |
Fri, 02 September 2016 17:27 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
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yea well....I was talking about a standard transmission with a clutch that adapts to the original olds 455 eng.....like olds model 442....brian
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of John Wright
Sent: September 1, 2016 8:56 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] manual trans
I also forgot about Hal StClair Diesel installation which looks good too.
JR Wright
> On Sep 1, 2016, at 10:53 AM, John Wright wrote:
>
> Brian,
> Not saying that it cannot be done, but it has been tried by several people a number of years ago and it always came up to available space to get an alternate engine ( In this case a Cad Northstar), and transmission to fit the chassis. The Available engines that are available that do fit including the 403/455 are the Cad 500+ are a direct fit. All the rest, starting with the BB Chevies 427 thru 502 and the 8.1, Mannys Diesel kit and the GM 6.1 diesel out of the trucks some sort of an adapter setup to complete the installation. The real problem is finding a transmission that would work in the foot print and a durable modern adaptable power unit with enough torque to move the load down the road.
>
> Again this all comes down to how much you want to spend. Just for a rebuild or repower with the Cad you at $5K to $7K, the BB Chevies are $8K to $9K. The 8.1 by Lenzi is an awesome kit but will set you back at close to $10K+ plus the cost of the 8.1. I was at his shop this summer and he has a half dozen+ 8.1 in the shop being converted, so there will be fair number on the road in the next year or so. Mannys Diesel is an awesome kit with an all new power unit build for our coaches, but its cost is north of $10K. The 6.1 ( I think that is the size ) diesel has been around for about 15 years and it has been done a number of times with great success. Again it all comes down on how much you want to spend to play.
>
> Regards,
>
> JR Wright
>
>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Brian Waddell wrote:
>>
>> Johnny brought up a subject I have thought of before....A modern manual,possibly 6 sp?, transmission in the gmc motorhome coupled to the 455 eng...what say you people who are capable of considering and DOING this....brian 77 ele 455
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306395 is a reply to message #306394] |
Fri, 02 September 2016 17:43 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Another diesel installation missed is the 350 diesel (CUV?) that Marc H, from Holland installed on his coach. A beautiful job on his frame off restoration.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306397 is a reply to message #306396] |
Fri, 02 September 2016 18:14 |
Kimberlea Weeks
Messages: 675
Registered: July 2010
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Diesel GMC in a GMC Handout
Marc Hogenboom | 2012 Spring GMCMI Convention | Shawnee, OK
The objective of this tech session is to explain what I did to install a
diesel engine, what in my view the advantages of diesel are, and why I did
it.
Can be found at: http://www.gmcmi.com/technical-presentations-papers/
*Thank you for being a member and supporting the GMC Motorhome lifestyle.*
Kimberlea Weeks
VP Administration and Convention Manager
612.501.4600 | f.866.519.0047 | www.gmcmi.com
GMC Motorhomes International
1402 So. Cage Blvd | Unit 273 | Pharr | TX 78577-6288
Join us at the GMCMI 2016 Fall Convention
Friday, September 30 to Thursday, October 6
Richland County Fairgrounds | Mansfield, Ohio
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Billy Massey wrote:
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3432-restoration-and-dies
> el-conversion.html
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Thomas Phipps wrote:
>
>> Another diesel installation missed is the 350 diesel (CUV?) that Marc H,
>> from Holland installed on his coach. A beautiful job on his frame off
>> restoration.
>>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306434 is a reply to message #306394] |
Sat, 03 September 2016 09:01 |
mrgmc3
Messages: 210
Registered: September 2013
Location: W Washington
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Brian Waddell wrote on Fri, 02 September 2016 17:27yea well....I was talking about a standard transmission with a clutch that adapts to the original olds 455 eng.....like olds model 442....brian
There are a couple manual transmissions that will bolt right up to the Olds 455; Muncie or Borg-Warner 4 speeds, more modern Tremec 6-speed. The problem with engineering any solution into the GMC is the FWD. The power flow has to turn 180 degrees and there are no off-the-shelf manual trans options to do this. I can only think of two relatively straightforward ways to accomplish the 180 degree turn;
1) use an off the shelf transfer case and pickup style front drive half of the 4wd driveline. This puts the trans back under the steps and makes shift linkages all but impractical.
2) create a purpose designed chain and sprocket adapter that mounts to a bell housing and supports the input shaft of the manual trans. This would be a very involved engineering exercise and very expensive for what realistically might be a handful of units. Not to mention that the result would be a transmission flipped in orientation and when you do this the shift linkage turns upside down. I am not sure many of us would easily adapt to an upside-down H pattern!
Chris Geils - Twin Cities / W Wa
1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; PD9040, aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, Alcoas, 54k mi
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306440 is a reply to message #306241] |
Sat, 03 September 2016 10:54 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Now one of the gurus correct me here... If we turn the transmission backwards, and it has helical cut gears, will we not get into problems with internal thrust in the 'wrong' direction?
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306445 is a reply to message #306434] |
Sat, 03 September 2016 11:32 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Your main thing you need is a transfer case that can handle the torque.
I believe a person in New Mexico did one using a transfer case.
On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Chris Geils
wrote:
> Brian Waddell wrote on Fri, 02 September 2016 17:27
>> yea well....I was talking about a standard transmission with a clutch
> that adapts to the original olds 455 eng.....like olds model 442....brian
>
>
> There are a couple manual transmissions that will bolt right up to the
> Olds 455; Muncie or Borg-Warner 4 speeds, more modern Tremec 6-speed. The
> problem with engineering any solution into the GMC is the FWD. The power
> flow has to turn 180 degrees and there are no off-the-shelf manual trans
> options to do this. I can only think of two relatively straightforward
> ways to accomplish the 180 degree turn;
> 1) use an off the shelf transfer case and pickup style front drive half of
> the 4wd driveline. This puts the trans back under the steps and makes
> shift linkages all but impractical.
> 2) create a purpose designed chain and sprocket adapter that mounts to a
> bell housing and supports the input shaft of the manual trans. This would
> be
> a very involved engineering exercise and very expensive for what
> realistically might be a handful of units. Not to mention that the result
> would be a
> transmission flipped in orientation and when you do this the shift linkage
> turns upside down. I am not sure many of us would easily adapt to an
> upside-down H pattern!
>
> --
> Chris Geils - Twin Cities
> 1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; Headers, Progressive Dynamics 9040,
> aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, 49k mi
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306468 is a reply to message #306434] |
Sat, 03 September 2016 17:10 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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Ok....I am sure it can be done...you are saying that no front wheel drive, cab over style like the gmc coach, can use a manual trans..and get the linkage correct....I am thinking european and military...we just need the right people who know what they are talking about and thinking about, to pursue this possibility.....brian 77ele 455
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Chris Geils
Sent: September 3, 2016 8:01 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] manual trans
Brian Waddell wrote on Fri, 02 September 2016 17:27
> yea well....I was talking about a standard transmission with a clutch that adapts to the original olds 455 eng.....like olds model 442....brian
There are a couple manual transmissions that will bolt right up to the Olds 455; Muncie or Borg-Warner 4 speeds, more modern Tremec 6-speed. The
problem with engineering any solution into the GMC is the FWD. The power flow has to turn 180 degrees and there are no off-the-shelf manual trans
options to do this. I can only think of two relatively straightforward ways to accomplish the 180 degree turn;
1) use an off the shelf transfer case and pickup style front drive half of the 4wd driveline. This puts the trans back under the steps and makes
shift linkages all but impractical.
2) create a purpose designed chain and sprocket adapter that mounts to a bell housing and supports the input shaft of the manual trans. This would be
a very involved engineering exercise and very expensive for what realistically might be a handful of units. Not to mention that the result would be a
transmission flipped in orientation and when you do this the shift linkage turns upside down. I am not sure many of us would easily adapt to an
upside-down H pattern!
--
Chris Geils - Twin Cities
1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; Headers, Progressive Dynamics 9040, aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, 49k mi
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306469 is a reply to message #306468] |
Sat, 03 September 2016 17:56 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Brian,
As the song goes; "if you've got the money, honey, I've got the time!"
:-)
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian Waddell
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 8:11 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] manual trans
Ok....I am sure it can be done...you are saying that no front wheel drive, cab over style like the gmc coach, can use a manual
trans..and get the linkage correct....I am thinking european and military...we just need the right people who know what they are
talking about and thinking about, to pursue this possibility.....brian 77ele 455
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306472 is a reply to message #306468] |
Sat, 03 September 2016 18:14 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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Senior Member |
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The shift linkage would be a piece of cake, you could use cables as is already done on some of the aftermarket T56 (6 sp)shifters. Space becomes very dear when you start adding bell housings with flywheel's and clutches and then a transfer case and adaptors to make everything mesh. Puting something together without getting into 6 figure money would be a real plus  Besides, who wants to row a GMC around? The 4l80e I used can be converted to a 6 speed auto for a couple of thousand by going with an aftermarket valve body and computer. I didn't feel the need for the extra expense for the minimal gain.
Just my way of thinking.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306479 is a reply to message #306472] |
Sat, 03 September 2016 19:40 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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OK...that is what I needed to know from some one with the knowhow....brian 77 ele 455
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Hal StClair
Sent: September 3, 2016 5:14 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] manual trans
The shift linkage would be a piece of cake, you could use cables as is already done on some of the aftermarket T56 (6 sp)shifters. Space becomes very
dear when you start adding bell housings with flywheel's and clutches and then a transfer case and adaptors to make everything mesh. Puting something
together without getting into 6 figure money would be a real plus :p Besides, who wants to row a GMC around? The 4l80e I used can be converted to a 6
speed auto for a couple of thousand by going with an aftermarket valve body and computer. I didn't feel the need for the extra expense for the minimal
gain.
Just my way of thinking.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306512 is a reply to message #306434] |
Sun, 04 September 2016 15:45 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Well, I adapted pretty quickly to bass-ackward shifting of the 3-speed
manual tranny when I moved the shift lever to the left side of the column
and put the necker knob on the left side of the steering wheel so that I
could drive my first car ('50 Chevy business coupe) with left hand and
keep my right arm around the pretty girl sitting to my right!
Mac in OKC
'76 ex P.B.
"The Money Pit"
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Chris Geils
Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2016 09:01
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] manual trans
Brian Waddell wrote on Fri, 02 September 2016 17:27
> yea well....I was talking about a standard transmission with a clutch that adapts to the original olds 455 eng.....like olds model 442....brian
There are a couple manual transmissions that will bolt right up to the Olds 455; Muncie or Borg-Warner 4 speeds, more modern Tremec 6-speed. The
problem with engineering any solution into the GMC is the FWD. The power flow has to turn 180 degrees and there are no off-the-shelf manual trans
options to do this. I can only think of two relatively straightforward ways to accomplish the 180 degree turn;
1) use an off the shelf transfer case and pickup style front drive half of the 4wd driveline. This puts the trans back under the steps and makes
shift linkages all but impractical.
2) create a purpose designed chain and sprocket adapter that mounts to a bell housing and supports the input shaft of the manual trans. This would be
a very involved engineering exercise and very expensive for what realistically might be a handful of units. Not to mention that the result would be a
transmission flipped in orientation and when you do this the shift linkage turns upside down. I am not sure many of us would easily adapt to an
upside-down H pattern!
--
Chris Geils - Twin Cities
1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; Headers, Progressive Dynamics 9040, aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, 49k mi
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| Re: [GMCnet] manual trans [message #306527 is a reply to message #306241] |
Sun, 04 September 2016 22:16 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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While not manual, how about a 6 speed Allison from behind a Duramax Diesel 1 ton four wheel drive GM pickup.
You'd have to have an adapter for the motor/trans, and an adapter for a shaft between the GMC final drive and the front wheel drive feed off the Allison. And you'd need to machine a plate to hold a bearing and seal on the final drive since it currently mates directly the the tranny.
You'd have to increase the length of the step. Still a lot of work but you'd have two overdrives and could run a 4.55 final drive ratio and still cruise at 2000 rpm if you wanted to.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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