Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters?
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters? [message #306017 is a reply to message #306015] |
Fri, 26 August 2016 18:07   |
LarryInSanDiego
Messages: 336
Registered: September 2006
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IIRC, at least one of the Allisons in the 540 series are pretty much super duty equivalents of TH400/475 in many ways, so many of the parts also fit the TH425. The six bolt converter shell (notice that all shells are stamped for six lugs, even though only 3 have mounting pads welded on for most non-Allison apps?) is one clue about parts interchangeability. I remember learning that some parts touted by B&M as HD or "racing" are actually off the shelf 540 parts.
Add edit: Do not confuse six bolt holes in flex plates as necessarily being made for Allison converters. If you see six, look more carefully. Some may have two different bolt circle diameters as the same flex plate could be used to mate with either TH350 or TH400/425 converters. This I would guess would probably be more likely in 403 apps as I have never seen a max inch motor mated to a TH350 from the factory. Do not assume all six will line up with the Allison converter.
Larry Engelbrecht
San Diego, CA
'73 26' ex-Glacier
TZE063V100319 03/07/73
[Updated on: Fri, 26 August 2016 18:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torqueconverters? [message #306024 is a reply to message #306017] |
Fri, 26 August 2016 19:53 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
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Larry,
I'll add that they used to, many years ago, sell Ford type ATF as racing
trans fluid.
I understand that now it's John Deere tractor fluid. The stuff for those
tractor
hydrostatic trannys is renowned for it's ability to tolerate heat.
Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Larry Engelbrecht"
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 7:07 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission
torqueconverters?
> IIRC, at least one of the Allisons in the 540 series are pretty much super
> duty equivalents of TH400/475 in many ways, so many of the parts also fit
> the TH425. The six bolt converter shell (notice that all shells are
> stamped for six lugs, even though only 3 have mounting pads welded on for
> most
> non-Allison apps?) is one clue about parts interchangeability. I remember
> learning that some parts touted by B&M as HD or "racing" are actually off
> the shelf 540 parts.
> --
> Larry Engelbrecht
>
> San Diego, CA
>
> '73 26' ex-Glacier
>
> TZE063V100319 03/07/73
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters? [message #306026 is a reply to message #306015] |
Fri, 26 August 2016 20:15 |
LarryInSanDiego
Messages: 336
Registered: September 2006
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I heard that too. I also know about quite a few B&Ms blowing up as well, although I don't know what the causes were. I just stayed away from B&M anything. I used to install Trans-Go shift kits and never had a problem with them. My understanding was the type of ATF had to be matched to the clutch material, so B&M transes MAY have been assembled with Type F compatible clutches, making some people assume that Type F was the way to go not understanding that their oem trans clutch material were not compatible, but I don't know.
The conspiracy theory /plausible denial gene within me suspects B&M did that so folks who unwittingly installed Type F (assuming that's what B&M racing ATF actually was) would blow up their transes and buy a B&M built one. That way, B&M could rightfully say "It wasn't our racing fluid that blew your trans." I could never get a straight answer from B&M, another reason for me to avoid them. I was always connected to a slickster sales type whenever I called, never to someone who I felt actually knew. Nowadays, some ATFs are now cross-compatible between GM and Ford (!), so the ATF type may now be a moot point.
An engineer I knew at GM told me the current Dexron (fifth generation or something) is REALLY good stuff, thanks to BMW's "lifetime" ATF that I heard forced GM (and probably Ford and others as well) to really ramp up ATF quality.
Larry Engelbrecht
San Diego, CA
'73 26' ex-Glacier
TZE063V100319 03/07/73
[Updated on: Fri, 26 August 2016 20:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters? [message #306046 is a reply to message #306015] |
Sat, 27 August 2016 13:06 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
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Back in the day, a lot of us ran type F fluid in GM transmissions. It definitely made the transmissions shift harder.But if the clutches are already worn...
Not such a good idea with the newer trannys and materials
B&M denyed that trick shift fluid was just dyed and repackaged Type F, but it proably was. Never was that impressed with their products [other than the shifters]. Went round and round with them over their 144ci supercharger in 83 that didnt make anywhere near the boost and power claimed. It didnt break my heart when they went tits up.
76 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters? [message #306047 is a reply to message #306046] |
Sat, 27 August 2016 13:53 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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If I were advising you, I would tell you to ""ASK MANNY TROVAO"" what he
recommends. He builds these things by the dozens. But, hey it is AMERICA,
spend your money any way you wish. Put any torque converter you happen to
like, 6 lug, 3 lug, purple, gold, blue. Your choice.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Aug 27, 2016 11:07 AM, "Chris Tyler" wrote:
> Back in the day, a lot of us ran type F fluid in GM transmissions. It
> definitely made the transmissions shift harder.But if the clutches are
> already
> worn...
>
> Not such a good idea with the newer trannys and materials
>
> B&M denyed that trick shift fluid was just dyed and repackaged Type F, but
> it proably was. Never was that impressed with their products [other than
> the shifters]. Went round and round with them over their 144ci
> supercharger in 83 that didnt make anywhere near the boost and power
> claimed. It didnt
> break my heart when they went tits up.
> --
> 76 Glenbrook
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters? [message #306112 is a reply to message #306106] |
Mon, 29 August 2016 11:16 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Back in the days before "Funny Cars" There was a cigar smoking Dodge racer
on the west coast, about the time of the "Ramchargers" in the midwest. His
name was "Dandy Dick" Landy and he campaigned one of those Dodges with the
set back and raised front wheels and the rear end was set far forward in
the wheel wells. It had various engines, but most of them had cross ram
dual 4 barrel 426 cubic inch either Hemi or Max wedge engines coupled to a
manual clutch followed by a 727 B torque flite transmission. They would
wheelstand and were really squirelley handling on the big end. Kinda like
the AA/Altereds, and Competiton Coupes and Sedans and Willys Gassers of the
day. In those days I drove slingshot dragsters and lower class Gassers.
Not like the long wheelbase rear engined cars of today. Wouldn't set foot
in a slingshot dragster, today. Sat with the family jewels directly over
the ring gear in the differential and straddled the clutch and bell
housing/flywheel area. Looked around the injectors or blower case to see
the track. Slicks right next to my ears. Vibrations would blur your vision
close up. Maybe that is why I am so goofy today. Nahhh, couldn't be that. I
had to be goofy long before climbing into one of those things. GMC's seem
calm compared to that stuff.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:45 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> How about a ClutchFlite? The linkage would be a bear, but geez.....
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> '76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and
> add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
>
> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my
> dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters? [message #306116 is a reply to message #306015] |
Mon, 29 August 2016 11:42 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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That was a 'ClutchFlite or a clone of it. Steel cased 727 with a clutch in place of the converter. Chrysler didn't have a 4 speed which would live behind the B and RB engines until they brought the one designed by their french plant (Pont a Musson) over and stuffed it behind the Hemis. At that point the clutched automatics were passe. As long as you could shift it like Ronnie Sox or Landy (fewer could than tried to).
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters? [message #306154 is a reply to message #306135] |
Tue, 30 August 2016 12:03 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Karma: -12
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If memory serves Jim, these altered wheel base cars' were the precursors to the 'Funny Cars'. As for the Clutch Flites, they even tried that trick with the TH400"s, though not nearly as successfully as with the Torque Flites.
My 'A'/'B' Gas car was enough of a handful (1962 Chevy II,BB Chevy), I had no desire to ride a slingshot car 
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters? [message #306157 is a reply to message #306154] |
Tue, 30 August 2016 12:35 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Hal, the slingshot cars I drove were 100" wheelbase cars and they were a
handful. Later we stretched the chassis to 109" and they would go
straighter, but if you got out if shape, they were harder to correct. Once
they got out to 150" and engineered chassis with purpose built
differentials and power glide transmissions it really changed the game.
Couldn't afford it on a working man's wages. I had a daughter by then, and
my wife had issues with me spending house payments on speed parts. She
said, "You can choose between racing and being married, but you can't do
both". I promised never to race, and that marriage lasted 50 years. No
regrets. Racing is an addiction, no different than drug abuse. I know it
now, but I didn't in my early 20's. Still, I can appreciate the innovations
today, and still utilize the skills I learned back in the day. I know you
do, too. I've seen your work. Outstanding.
Jim Hupy
On Aug 30, 2016 10:05 AM, "Hal StClair" wrote:
> If memory serves Jim, these altered wheel base cars' were the precursors
> to the 'Funny Cars'. As for the Clutch Flites, they even tried that trick
> with the TH400"s, though not nearly as successfully as with the Torque
> Flites.
> My 'A'/'B' Gas car was enough of a handful (1962 Chevy II,BB Chevy), I had
> no desire to ride a slingshot car :p
> Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters? [message #306177 is a reply to message #306157] |
Tue, 30 August 2016 22:02 |
Hal StClair
Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM
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Thanks for the kind words Jim. Back in the day we learned early on that you built it the best you knew how (or could afford) the first time and hopefully things would stay together. Sometimes they even did  But it's all fun.
Funny you should mention the powerglides. I remember the first one we tried, replacing the M22 4 speed with a 5500 stall transbrake equipped glide in a 66 corvette. We picked up almost a half second with no other mods. Made a believer out of me for sure. And the racing, it stopped about a year after the 'I do' event. Great exchange IMO.
Hal
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."
1977 Royale 101348,
1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
Rio Rancho, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Do many GMC owners use Allison transmission torque converters? [message #306193 is a reply to message #306015] |
Wed, 31 August 2016 08:05 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Well, I don't think I'm quite ready - or ever was - for a Crackerbox II with a lot of motor. It would be like the local guy (whose name I forgot) who ran the factory Thunderbolts and controlled them by jamming his elbow into the inside door handle. "You knew it was going sideways when you shifted it, you just didn't know which way". Interviewed in the local paper a few years back.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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