Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305691] |
Sat, 20 August 2016 22:12  |
Tom Whitton
Messages: 235
Registered: February 2004
Location: Paducah, KY
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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This past May marked the 15th year we have owned our GMC Motorhome. I love the machine but, I'm sorry to admit, it never has steered very well. For several years it has met Dave Lenzi's alignment specs, Alex Farrara's top dead center specs, along with the correct front and rear ride height specs. It has new Sully bags in the rear and all Lenzi steering gear in the front (with the exception of the steering box). In 15-years, it has had 3-different steering boxes but steering wheel play and road wondering has continued. I got used to it but, again, it never steered very well. I began to think questionable steering was just the way it was with the GMC.
Bob Stone has driven from his place, about 50-miles away, more than a few times to try to help me get it right. He has perfected string alignment. Using his setup, he checks the alignment that was done at a professional shop, giving particular attention to the toe-in specs. A while back in an effort to get it right once and for all, he loaned me one of his steering boxes to see if that would make a difference. Using his box, it drove better than before. Obviously, the test proved that I definitely needed still another steering box. But, Bob needed his box back. So, I looked around for another box (my 4th). I talked with Alex Farrara, Dave Lenzi, Manny and others. I made up my mind to go for a variable ratio box because I learned that they do not require as much turning of the steering wheel to keep the coach going straight on the highway. For me, that's where excess steering play typically reared its ugly head.
I'm sure Manny's new but pricey variable ratio box is excellent. Dave Lenzi's rebuilt variable ratio box, I'm sure is also excellent but, unfortunately, Dave can't get the necessary parts these days to build a box to his liking. Jim K from Applied sells a rebuilt variable ratio box for a reasonable price ($398 plus core and freight). I decided to buy his box. This past week Bob Stone came back to my place. We once again checked the alignment and toe-in using his system. It was good. Then, we removed his loaned box, set top dead center, and installed the rebuilt Box from Jim K and again checked the alignment and toe. We weren't taking any chances. Yesterday, I took the coach out on a 4-lane limited access highway for a 20-mile check. The difference was dramatic! It steers better that it ever has since I have owned it - probably not as good as a new Mercedes Benz but pretty darned good. I would say maybe as good as a new full sized van. The play in the steering wheel is gone and the coach holds a straight line at highway speed. I highly recommend Jim's Variable Ratio Steering Gear. Results may vary but it worked for me!
I told Jim on the phone this afternoon that I was so satisfied with his steering gear that I was going to sing his praises on the GMC Net, so there it is, Jim, and every word is true.
That's my story and I'm sticking with it,
Tom Whitton
26 foot updated GMC
Paducah, KY
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305732 is a reply to message #305691] |
Sun, 21 August 2016 16:00  |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
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Senior Member |
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thank you tom for your steering story.....I have had a coach for many years....can not drive it because of steering and have played around with the steering issues for a long time....replacing parts makes little difference....on a highway taking your eyes off of the road is going to get me killed....no problem driving lots of old cars and trucks around here.....the coach is a no no to drive...I have had others try driving it....they say I can not drive this thing..to dangerous....so I will go variable steering box after I check the wiper filter, and see if any difference...I have NEVER had to replace a steering box on lots of old vehicles before, so a new steering box was not at the top of my considerations....brian 77 ele new lenz parts new tires new rims new jim parts etc etc
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Tom Whitton
Sent: August 20, 2016 9:12 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
This past May marked the 15th year we have owned our GMC Motorhome. I love the machine but, I'm sorry to admit, it never has steered very well. For several years it has met Dave Lenzi's alignment specs, Alex Farrara's top dead center specs, along with the correct front and rear ride height specs. It has new Sully bags in the rear and all Lenzi steering gear in the front (with the exception of the steering box). In 15-years, it has had 3-different steering boxes but steering wheel play and road wondering has continued. I got used to it but, again, it never steered very well. I began to think questionable steering was just the way it was with the GMC.
Bob Stone has driven from his place, about 50-miles away, more than a few times to try to help me get it right. He has perfected string alignment. Using his setup, he checks the alignment that was done at a professional shop, giving particular attention to the toe-in specs. A while back in an effort to get it right once and for all, he loaned me one of his steering boxes to see if that would make a difference. Using his box, it drove better than before. Obviously, the test proved that I definitely needed still another steering box. But, Bob needed his box back. So, I looked around for another box (my 4th). I talked with Alex Farrara, Dave Lenzi, Manny and others. I made up my mind to go for a variable ratio box because I learned that they do not require as much turning of the steering wheel to keep the coach going straight on the highway. For me, that's where excess steering play typically reared its ugly head.
I'm sure Manny's new but pricey variable ratio box is excellent. Dave Lenzi's rebuilt variable ratio box, I'm sure is also excellent but, unfortunately, Dave can't get the necessary parts these days to build a box to his liking. Jim K from Applied sells a rebuilt variable ratio box for a reasonable price ($398 plus core and freight). I decided to buy his box. This past week Bob Stone came back to my place. We once again checked the alignment and toe-in using his system. It was good. Then, we removed his loaned box, set top dead center, and installed the rebuilt Box from Jim K and again checked the alignment and toe. We weren't taking any chances. Yesterday, I took the coach out on a 4-lane limited access highway for a 20-mile check. The difference was dramatic! It steers better that it ever has since I have owned it - probably not as good as a new Mercedes Benz but pretty darned good. I would say maybe as good as a new full sized van. The play in the steering wheel is gone and the coach holds a straight line at highway speed. I highly recommend Jim's Variable Ratio Steering Gear. Results may vary but it worked for me!
I told Jim on the phone this afternoon that I was so satisfied with his steering gear that I was going to sing his praises on the GMC Net, so there it is, Jim, and every word is true.
That's my story and I'm sticking with it,
Tom Whitton
26 foot updated GMC
Paducah, KY
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305734 is a reply to message #305732] |
Sun, 21 August 2016 16:10 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Brien,
I can tell you first hand that variable ratio is not the answer to steering
problem.
Why dont you give me a call so we can discuss your issue and hopefully find
something that has been missed.
On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Brian Waddell
wrote:
> thank you tom for your steering story.....I have had a coach for many
> years....can not drive it because of steering and have played around with
> the steering issues for a long time....replacing parts makes little
> difference....on a highway taking your eyes off of the road is going to get
> me killed....no problem driving lots of old cars and trucks around
> here.....the coach is a no no to drive...I have had others try driving
> it....they say I can not drive this thing..to dangerous....so I will go
> variable steering box after I check the wiper filter, and see if any
> difference...I have NEVER had to replace a steering box on lots of old
> vehicles before, so a new steering box was not at the top of my
> considerations....brian 77 ele new lenz parts new tires new rims new jim
> parts etc etc
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Tom Whitton tomwhitton@bellsouth.net>
> Sent: August 20, 2016 9:12 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
>
> This past May marked the 15th year we have owned our GMC Motorhome. I
> love the machine but, I'm sorry to admit, it never has steered very well.
> For several years it has met Dave Lenzi's alignment specs, Alex Farrara's
> top dead center specs, along with the correct front and rear ride height
> specs. It has new Sully bags in the rear and all Lenzi steering gear in
> the front (with the exception of the steering box). In 15-years, it has
> had 3-different steering boxes but steering wheel play and road wondering
> has continued. I got used to it but, again, it never steered very well. I
> began to think questionable steering was just the way it was with the GMC.
>
> Bob Stone has driven from his place, about 50-miles away, more than a few
> times to try to help me get it right. He has perfected string alignment.
> Using his setup, he checks the alignment that was done at a professional
> shop, giving particular attention to the toe-in specs. A while back in an
> effort to get it right once and for all, he loaned me one of his steering
> boxes to see if that would make a difference. Using his box, it drove
> better than before. Obviously, the test proved that I definitely needed
> still another steering box. But, Bob needed his box back. So, I looked
> around for another box (my 4th). I talked with Alex Farrara, Dave Lenzi,
> Manny and others. I made up my mind to go for a variable ratio box because
> I learned that they do not require as much turning of the steering wheel to
> keep the coach going straight on the highway. For me, that's where excess
> steering play typically reared its ugly head.
>
> I'm sure Manny's new but pricey variable ratio box is excellent. Dave
> Lenzi's rebuilt variable ratio box, I'm sure is also excellent but,
> unfortunately, Dave can't get the necessary parts these days to build a box
> to his liking. Jim K from Applied sells a rebuilt variable ratio box for a
> reasonable price ($398 plus core and freight). I decided to buy his box.
> This past week Bob Stone came back to my place. We once again checked the
> alignment and toe-in using his system. It was good. Then, we removed his
> loaned box, set top dead center, and installed the rebuilt Box from Jim K
> and again checked the alignment and toe. We weren't taking any chances.
> Yesterday, I took the coach out on a 4-lane limited access highway for a
> 20-mile check. The difference was dramatic! It steers better that it ever
> has since I have owned it - probably not as good as a new Mercedes Benz but
> pretty darned good. I would say maybe as good as a new full sized van. The
> play in the steering wheel is gone and the coach holds a straight line at
> highway speed. I highly recommend Jim's Variable Ratio Steering Gear.
> Results may vary but it worked for me!
>
> I told Jim on the phone this afternoon that I was so satisfied with his
> steering gear that I was going to sing his praises on the GMC Net, so there
> it is, Jim, and every word is true.
>
> That's my story and I'm sticking with it,
>
> Tom Whitton
> 26 foot updated GMC
> Paducah, KY
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> Gmclist Info Page - list.gmcnet.org gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org>
> list.gmcnet.org
> To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Gmclist
> Archives. Using Gmclist: To post a message to all the list members, send
> email ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305736 is a reply to message #305732] |
Sun, 21 August 2016 16:14 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
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|
I have said this several times here, also Steve Ferguson will say something
similar. The steering components from the drivers hands to the tires is a
system. No one part is less critical than the others in the system. A small
bit of play in several worn, or out of specification, parts will add up to
a poor driving vehicle. The GMC has more parts than many vehicles, thus,
the difficulty in getting all of them to sing off the same sheet of music.
Use Rob Muller's directions, get a helper that can see, hear, and follow
directions, and inspect your system from end to end. You will find out what
needs to be adjusted or replaced. Don't be suprised if it is in the back
of the coach, either.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Aug 21, 2016 2:01 PM, "Brian Waddell" wrote:
> thank you tom for your steering story.....I have had a coach for many
> years....can not drive it because of steering and have played around with
> the steering issues for a long time....replacing parts makes little
> difference....on a highway taking your eyes off of the road is going to get
> me killed....no problem driving lots of old cars and trucks around
> here.....the coach is a no no to drive...I have had others try driving
> it....they say I can not drive this thing..to dangerous....so I will go
> variable steering box after I check the wiper filter, and see if any
> difference...I have NEVER had to replace a steering box on lots of old
> vehicles before, so a new steering box was not at the top of my
> considerations....brian 77 ele new lenz parts new tires new rims new jim
> parts etc etc
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Tom Whitton tomwhitton@bellsouth.net>
> Sent: August 20, 2016 9:12 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
>
> This past May marked the 15th year we have owned our GMC Motorhome. I
> love the machine but, I'm sorry to admit, it never has steered very well.
> For several years it has met Dave Lenzi's alignment specs, Alex Farrara's
> top dead center specs, along with the correct front and rear ride height
> specs. It has new Sully bags in the rear and all Lenzi steering gear in
> the front (with the exception of the steering box). In 15-years, it has
> had 3-different steering boxes but steering wheel play and road wondering
> has continued. I got used to it but, again, it never steered very well. I
> began to think questionable steering was just the way it was with the GMC.
>
> Bob Stone has driven from his place, about 50-miles away, more than a few
> times to try to help me get it right. He has perfected string alignment.
> Using his setup, he checks the alignment that was done at a professional
> shop, giving particular attention to the toe-in specs. A while back in an
> effort to get it right once and for all, he loaned me one of his steering
> boxes to see if that would make a difference. Using his box, it drove
> better than before. Obviously, the test proved that I definitely needed
> still another steering box. But, Bob needed his box back. So, I looked
> around for another box (my 4th). I talked with Alex Farrara, Dave Lenzi,
> Manny and others. I made up my mind to go for a variable ratio box because
> I learned that they do not require as much turning of the steering wheel to
> keep the coach going straight on the highway. For me, that's where excess
> steering play typically reared its ugly head.
>
> I'm sure Manny's new but pricey variable ratio box is excellent. Dave
> Lenzi's rebuilt variable ratio box, I'm sure is also excellent but,
> unfortunately, Dave can't get the necessary parts these days to build a box
> to his liking. Jim K from Applied sells a rebuilt variable ratio box for a
> reasonable price ($398 plus core and freight). I decided to buy his box.
> This past week Bob Stone came back to my place. We once again checked the
> alignment and toe-in using his system. It was good. Then, we removed his
> loaned box, set top dead center, and installed the rebuilt Box from Jim K
> and again checked the alignment and toe. We weren't taking any chances.
> Yesterday, I took the coach out on a 4-lane limited access highway for a
> 20-mile check. The difference was dramatic! It steers better that it ever
> has since I have owned it - probably not as good as a new Mercedes Benz but
> pretty darned good. I would say maybe as good as a new full sized van. The
> play in the steering wheel is gone and the coach holds a straight line at
> highway speed. I highly recommend Jim's Variable Ratio Steering Gear.
> Results may vary but it worked for me!
>
> I told Jim on the phone this afternoon that I was so satisfied with his
> steering gear that I was going to sing his praises on the GMC Net, so there
> it is, Jim, and every word is true.
>
> That's my story and I'm sticking with it,
>
> Tom Whitton
> 26 foot updated GMC
> Paducah, KY
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> Gmclist Info Page - list.gmcnet.org gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org>
> list.gmcnet.org
> To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Gmclist
> Archives. Using Gmclist: To post a message to all the list members, send
> email ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305752 is a reply to message #305734] |
Sun, 21 August 2016 18:32 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
we discussed this at great length over a 2yr period and I bought every steering component you and dave L had.....just kidding...that occurred at least 2yrs ago. and I got minimal improvement, if any..brian 77 ele 455
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Jim Kanomata
Sent: August 21, 2016 3:10 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
Brien,
I can tell you first hand that variable ratio is not the answer to steering
problem.
Why dont you give me a call so we can discuss your issue and hopefully find
something that has been missed.
On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Brian Waddell
wrote:
> thank you tom for your steering story.....I have had a coach for many
> years....can not drive it because of steering and have played around with
> the steering issues for a long time....replacing parts makes little
> difference....on a highway taking your eyes off of the road is going to get
> me killed....no problem driving lots of old cars and trucks around
> here.....the coach is a no no to drive...I have had others try driving
> it....they say I can not drive this thing..to dangerous....so I will go
> variable steering box after I check the wiper filter, and see if any
> difference...I have NEVER had to replace a steering box on lots of old
> vehicles before, so a new steering box was not at the top of my
> considerations....brian 77 ele new lenz parts new tires new rims new jim
> parts etc etc
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Tom Whitton tomwhitton@bellsouth.net>
> Sent: August 20, 2016 9:12 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
>
> This past May marked the 15th year we have owned our GMC Motorhome. I
> love the machine but, I'm sorry to admit, it never has steered very well.
> For several years it has met Dave Lenzi's alignment specs, Alex Farrara's
> top dead center specs, along with the correct front and rear ride height
> specs. It has new Sully bags in the rear and all Lenzi steering gear in
> the front (with the exception of the steering box). In 15-years, it has
> had 3-different steering boxes but steering wheel play and road wondering
> has continued. I got used to it but, again, it never steered very well. I
> began to think questionable steering was just the way it was with the GMC.
>
> Bob Stone has driven from his place, about 50-miles away, more than a few
> times to try to help me get it right. He has perfected string alignment.
> Using his setup, he checks the alignment that was done at a professional
> shop, giving particular attention to the toe-in specs. A while back in an
> effort to get it right once and for all, he loaned me one of his steering
> boxes to see if that would make a difference. Using his box, it drove
> better than before. Obviously, the test proved that I definitely needed
> still another steering box. But, Bob needed his box back. So, I looked
> around for another box (my 4th). I talked with Alex Farrara, Dave Lenzi,
> Manny and others. I made up my mind to go for a variable ratio box because
> I learned that they do not require as much turning of the steering wheel to
> keep the coach going straight on the highway. For me, that's where excess
> steering play typically reared its ugly head.
>
> I'm sure Manny's new but pricey variable ratio box is excellent. Dave
> Lenzi's rebuilt variable ratio box, I'm sure is also excellent but,
> unfortunately, Dave can't get the necessary parts these days to build a box
> to his liking. Jim K from Applied sells a rebuilt variable ratio box for a
> reasonable price ($398 plus core and freight). I decided to buy his box.
> This past week Bob Stone came back to my place. We once again checked the
> alignment and toe-in using his system. It was good. Then, we removed his
> loaned box, set top dead center, and installed the rebuilt Box from Jim K
> and again checked the alignment and toe. We weren't taking any chances.
> Yesterday, I took the coach out on a 4-lane limited access highway for a
> 20-mile check. The difference was dramatic! It steers better that it ever
> has since I have owned it - probably not as good as a new Mercedes Benz but
> pretty darned good. I would say maybe as good as a new full sized van. The
> play in the steering wheel is gone and the coach holds a straight line at
> highway speed. I highly recommend Jim's Variable Ratio Steering Gear.
> Results may vary but it worked for me!
>
> I told Jim on the phone this afternoon that I was so satisfied with his
> steering gear that I was going to sing his praises on the GMC Net, so there
> it is, Jim, and every word is true.
>
> That's my story and I'm sticking with it,
>
> Tom Whitton
> 26 foot updated GMC
> Paducah, KY
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Gmclist Info Page - list.gmcnet.org
list.gmcnet.org
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Gmclist Archives. Using Gmclist: To post a message to all the list members, send email ...
> Gmclist Info Page - list.gmcnet.org gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org>
> list.gmcnet.org
> To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Gmclist
> Archives. Using Gmclist: To post a message to all the list members, send
> email ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305754 is a reply to message #305736] |
Sun, 21 August 2016 18:40 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
did all that and a lot more...replaced some components where there was minumum play ...and just replaced others....cause nothing works to improve the steering...and am now at the poijnt where I just want to replace the steering box regardless if it is good or not because there is nothing left to replace...,,backend checks out good by myself and others ...read mechanics....Brian 77 ele
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of James Hupy
Sent: August 21, 2016 3:14 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
I have said this several times here, also Steve Ferguson will say something
similar. The steering components from the drivers hands to the tires is a
system. No one part is less critical than the others in the system. A small
bit of play in several worn, or out of specification, parts will add up to
a poor driving vehicle. The GMC has more parts than many vehicles, thus,
the difficulty in getting all of them to sing off the same sheet of music.
Use Rob Muller's directions, get a helper that can see, hear, and follow
directions, and inspect your system from end to end. You will find out what
needs to be adjusted or replaced. Don't be suprised if it is in the back
of the coach, either.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Aug 21, 2016 2:01 PM, "Brian Waddell" wrote:
> thank you tom for your steering story.....I have had a coach for many
> years....can not drive it because of steering and have played around with
> the steering issues for a long time....replacing parts makes little
> difference....on a highway taking your eyes off of the road is going to get
> me killed....no problem driving lots of old cars and trucks around
> here.....the coach is a no no to drive...I have had others try driving
> it....they say I can not drive this thing..to dangerous....so I will go
> variable steering box after I check the wiper filter, and see if any
> difference...I have NEVER had to replace a steering box on lots of old
> vehicles before, so a new steering box was not at the top of my
> considerations....brian 77 ele new lenz parts new tires new rims new jim
> parts etc etc
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Tom Whitton tomwhitton@bellsouth.net>
> Sent: August 20, 2016 9:12 PM
> To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
>
> This past May marked the 15th year we have owned our GMC Motorhome. I
> love the machine but, I'm sorry to admit, it never has steered very well.
> For several years it has met Dave Lenzi's alignment specs, Alex Farrara's
> top dead center specs, along with the correct front and rear ride height
> specs. It has new Sully bags in the rear and all Lenzi steering gear in
> the front (with the exception of the steering box). In 15-years, it has
> had 3-different steering boxes but steering wheel play and road wondering
> has continued. I got used to it but, again, it never steered very well. I
> began to think questionable steering was just the way it was with the GMC.
>
> Bob Stone has driven from his place, about 50-miles away, more than a few
> times to try to help me get it right. He has perfected string alignment.
> Using his setup, he checks the alignment that was done at a professional
> shop, giving particular attention to the toe-in specs. A while back in an
> effort to get it right once and for all, he loaned me one of his steering
> boxes to see if that would make a difference. Using his box, it drove
> better than before. Obviously, the test proved that I definitely needed
> still another steering box. But, Bob needed his box back. So, I looked
> around for another box (my 4th). I talked with Alex Farrara, Dave Lenzi,
> Manny and others. I made up my mind to go for a variable ratio box because
> I learned that they do not require as much turning of the steering wheel to
> keep the coach going straight on the highway. For me, that's where excess
> steering play typically reared its ugly head.
>
> I'm sure Manny's new but pricey variable ratio box is excellent. Dave
> Lenzi's rebuilt variable ratio box, I'm sure is also excellent but,
> unfortunately, Dave can't get the necessary parts these days to build a box
> to his liking. Jim K from Applied sells a rebuilt variable ratio box for a
> reasonable price ($398 plus core and freight). I decided to buy his box.
> This past week Bob Stone came back to my place. We once again checked the
> alignment and toe-in using his system. It was good. Then, we removed his
> loaned box, set top dead center, and installed the rebuilt Box from Jim K
> and again checked the alignment and toe. We weren't taking any chances.
> Yesterday, I took the coach out on a 4-lane limited access highway for a
> 20-mile check. The difference was dramatic! It steers better that it ever
> has since I have owned it - probably not as good as a new Mercedes Benz but
> pretty darned good. I would say maybe as good as a new full sized van. The
> play in the steering wheel is gone and the coach holds a straight line at
> highway speed. I highly recommend Jim's Variable Ratio Steering Gear.
> Results may vary but it worked for me!
>
> I told Jim on the phone this afternoon that I was so satisfied with his
> steering gear that I was going to sing his praises on the GMC Net, so there
> it is, Jim, and every word is true.
>
> That's my story and I'm sticking with it,
>
> Tom Whitton
> 26 foot updated GMC
> Paducah, KY
> _______________________________________________
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> email ...
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305759 is a reply to message #305691] |
Sun, 21 August 2016 19:28 |
Tom Whitton
Messages: 235
Registered: February 2004
Location: Paducah, KY
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Brian,
I feel your pain. You've spent a lot of money, done a lot of work and the coach still drives poorly. Believe me, I've been there.
What the other guys said was right, the steering has a system of lots of parts. They all have to be in good shape and adjusted right.
Here's a list of things that I think are important to get it right:
1. Ride height (front and back) have to be per specs in the manual.
2. The steering box has to be on center as per Alex Farrara's instructions shown on bdub's site.
3. Looseness in all parts has to be taken out. Maybe this isn't a problem for you since you have so many new parts from Dave Lenzi.
4. The boomerang on my coach was from Dave but it was too tight against the frame. Dave used to set them that way but found the spec too tight, causing the steering to stick in place while driving. So, you had to steer constantly, never able to take eyes off the road. Bob Stone ground it down just a little for me and it no longer sticks. You have to be really careful with this.
5. We did all these things on my coach and it still drove poorly. For me the final bad link in the chain was the steering box itself. I would do everything else listed here first.
6. Alignment and toe have to be set per specs. Here's Jim Hupy's excellent instructions (hope you don't mind, Jim)
Jim Hupy's excellent "alignment instructions"
I personally believe this to be the best advice that I can give you
about alignment on a 26 foot GMC. Adjust the front and rear ride height
according to the manual. With alloy wheels fitted with steel belted radial
tires with FABRIC sidewalls, Have the camber set at 0 degrees. Have the
caster set at all the positive that you can obtain, but at least 3 degrees.
Make both sides the same. Some people will advise you to set the toe in/out
slightly toe out. That means that the front of the tire is a longer
measurement than the back of the tire when measured across the coach to the tire on the opposite side. My personal experience with GMC front alignment is as follows. I find that if the tow adjustment is set as I just
described, the coach will wander. I have far less wander with the front
tires at 0" to 1/16" toe in. Do not exceed this much or you will experience
scruff wear on the outsides of your tread. On ride height adjustment, the
front end MUST BE SETTLED DOWN BY DRIVING THE COACH FOR SEVERAL MILES AFTER ANY ADJUSTMENT. IF your alignment person tells you that all that is necessary is to bounce the front bumper, thank them for their time and take the coach to someone who will listen to your instructions. This is the most important adjustment to get correct. It affects the anti dive, camber, and to some degree caster as well. It goes without saying that the shocks must be in good shape as well as every other steering component between the tire and the steering wheel. It is a system. If any one thing is bad, it's all bad.
Also, I would definitely phone Jim K. if I were you. All the guys on the Net will help. All you have to do is ask.
Good luck,
Tom Whitton
26 foot updated GMC
Paducah, KY
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 23:40:45 +0000
From: Brian Waddell
To: "gmclist@list.gmcnet.org"
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
did all that and a lot more...replaced some components where there was minumum play ...and just replaced others....cause nothing works to improve the steering...and am now at the poijnt where I just want to replace the steering box regardless if it is good or not because there is nothing left to replace...,,backend checks out good by myself and others ...read mechanics....Brian 77 ele
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305764 is a reply to message #305759] |
Sun, 21 August 2016 19:42 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
|
Senior Member |
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|
Yes....yes...and more yesses ...included off set bushings for more caster....can you elaborate on #4....brian 77 ele
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Tom Whitton
Sent: August 21, 2016 6:28 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
Brian,
I feel your pain. You've spent a lot of money, done a lot of work and the coach still drives poorly. Believe me, I've been there.
What the other guys said was right, the steering has a system of lots of parts. They all have to be in good shape and adjusted right.
Here's a list of things that I think are important to get it right:
1. Ride height (front and back) have to be per specs in the manual.
2. The steering box has to be on center as per Alex Farrara's instructions shown on bdub's site.
3. Looseness in all parts has to be taken out. Maybe this isn't a problem for you since you have so many new parts from Dave Lenzi.
4. The boomerang on my coach was from Dave but it was too tight against the frame. Dave used to set them that way but found the spec too tight, causing the steering to stick in place while driving. So, you had to steer constantly, never able to take eyes off the road. Bob Stone ground it down just a little for me and it no longer sticks. You have to be really careful with this.
5. We did all these things on my coach and it still drove poorly. For me the final bad link in the chain was the steering box itself. I would do everything else listed here first.
6. Alignment and toe have to be set per specs. Here's Jim Hupy's excellent instructions (hope you don't mind, Jim)
Jim Hupy's excellent "alignment instructions"
I personally believe this to be the best advice that I can give you
about alignment on a 26 foot GMC. Adjust the front and rear ride height
according to the manual. With alloy wheels fitted with steel belted radial
tires with FABRIC sidewalls, Have the camber set at 0 degrees. Have the
caster set at all the positive that you can obtain, but at least 3 degrees.
Make both sides the same. Some people will advise you to set the toe in/out
slightly toe out. That means that the front of the tire is a longer
measurement than the back of the tire when measured across the coach to the tire on the opposite side. My personal experience with GMC front alignment is as follows. I find that if the tow adjustment is set as I just
described, the coach will wander. I have far less wander with the front
tires at 0" to 1/16" toe in. Do not exceed this much or you will experience
scruff wear on the outsides of your tread. On ride height adjustment, the
front end MUST BE SETTLED DOWN BY DRIVING THE COACH FOR SEVERAL MILES AFTER ANY ADJUSTMENT. IF your alignment person tells you that all that is necessary is to bounce the front bumper, thank them for their time and take the coach to someone who will listen to your instructions. This is the most important adjustment to get correct. It affects the anti dive, camber, and to some degree caster as well. It goes without saying that the shocks must be in good shape as well as every other steering component between the tire and the steering wheel. It is a system. If any one thing is bad, it's all bad.
Also, I would definitely phone Jim K. if I were you. All the guys on the Net will help. All you have to do is ask.
Good luck,
Tom Whitton
26 foot updated GMC
Paducah, KY
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 23:40:45 +0000
From: Brian Waddell
To: "gmclist@list.gmcnet.org"
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
did all that and a lot more...replaced some components where there was minumum play ...and just replaced others....cause nothing works to improve the steering...and am now at the poijnt where I just want to replace the steering box regardless if it is good or not because there is nothing left to replace...,,backend checks out good by myself and others ...read mechanics....Brian 77 ele
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http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305803 is a reply to message #305691] |
Mon, 22 August 2016 10:31 |
Tom Whitton
Messages: 235
Registered: February 2004
Location: Paducah, KY
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Brian,
Since you have done everything else it sounds like your steering problem could, in fact, be either the boomerang (steering relay) or the steering box or both. As for how much and where to grind the relay, I think you should talk to Bob Stone or perhaps Dave Lenzi. I watched while Bob did the grinding. As I mentioned before, you have to be careful doing this. After doing everything else (the things you have also done) Bob drove the coach and on the highway felt it trying to stay in the direction pointed. Not stuck so that it is hard to turn the wheel, just stuck so that you have to constantly correct. It doesn't want to correct on its own. If that is what your coach does the relay "could" be at least part of the problem. There are clearance tolerances on the grinding so you definitely need to talk with either Dave or Bob before trying this. Bob Stone's number is 618 - nine six four - nine one two four. If out, leave a message.
There was improvement in my coach after we re-installed the boomerang but still too much steering play. After doing everything else, it almost had to be the steering box. When we took off the box, and had it on the bench, you could feel the play in the pitman arm across the turning range. We did the same thing with my new box. It had zero play.
Also, feel free to call me 270 - four four three - five two six three. We're on CDT.
Tom Whitton
26 foot updated GMC
Paducah, KY
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 00:42:40 +0000
From: Brian Waddell
To: "gorgmclist@list.gmcnet."
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes....yes...and more yesses ...included off set bushings for more caster....can you elaborate on #4....brian 77 ele
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305814 is a reply to message #305803] |
Mon, 22 August 2016 12:03 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I spent a lot of time on my steering, it still has a tiny bit of slop as compared to my R&P daily driver, but it now drives very well.
The last thing I did was adjust the steering box, thats a job and a half right there.
If you have not adjusted your steering box, do that, or buy a variable one
----------------------------------------
>
> Brian,
>
> Since you have done everything else it sounds like your steering problem could, in fact, be either the boomerang (steering relay) or the steering box or both. As for how much and where to grind the relay, I think you should talk to Bob Stone or perhaps Dave Lenzi. I watched while Bob did the grinding. As I mentioned before, you have to be careful doing this. After doing everything else (the things you have also done) Bob drove the coach and on the highway felt it trying to stay in the direction pointed. Not stuck so that it is hard to turn the wheel, just stuck so that you have to constantly correct. It doesn't want to correct on its own. If that is what your coach does the relay "could" be at least part of the problem. There are clearance tolerances on the grinding so you definitely need to talk with either Dave or Bob before trying this. Bob Stone's number is 618 - nine six four - nine one two four. If out, leave a message.
>
> There was improvement in my coach after we re-installed the boomerang but still too much steering play. After doing everything else, it almost had to be the steering box. When we took off the box, and had it on the bench, you could feel the play in the pitman arm across the turning range. We did the same thing with my new box. It had zero play.
>
> Also, feel free to call me 270 - four four three - five two six three. We're on CDT.
>
> Tom Whitton
> 26 foot updated GMC
> Paducah, KY
>
>
> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 00:42:40 +0000
> From: Brian Waddell
> To: "gorgmclist@list.gmcnet."
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Yes....yes...and more yesses ...included off set bushings for more caster....can you elaborate on #4....brian 77 ele
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305836 is a reply to message #305803] |
Mon, 22 August 2016 17:19 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Oh...by the term "boomeramg" you mean the relay arm.....this was replaced with a new one from Dave Lenz, as well as the relay lever...thanks for your input....I will call if needed...thank you....Brian 77 ele 455
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Tom Whitton
Sent: August 22, 2016 9:31 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
Brian,
Since you have done everything else it sounds like your steering problem could, in fact, be either the boomerang (steering relay) or the steering box or both. As for how much and where to grind the relay, I think you should talk to Bob Stone or perhaps Dave Lenzi. I watched while Bob did the grinding. As I mentioned before, you have to be careful doing this. After doing everything else (the things you have also done) Bob drove the coach and on the highway felt it trying to stay in the direction pointed. Not stuck so that it is hard to turn the wheel, just stuck so that you have to constantly correct. It doesn't want to correct on its own. If that is what your coach does the relay "could" be at least part of the problem. There are clearance tolerances on the grinding so you definitely need to talk with either Dave or Bob before trying this. Bob Stone's number is 618 - nine six four - nine one two four. If out, leave a message.
There was improvement in my coach after we re-installed the boomerang but still too much steering play. After doing everything else, it almost had to be the steering box. When we took off the box, and had it on the bench, you could feel the play in the pitman arm across the turning range. We did the same thing with my new box. It had zero play.
Also, feel free to call me 270 - four four three - five two six three. We're on CDT.
Tom Whitton
26 foot updated GMC
Paducah, KY
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 00:42:40 +0000
From: Brian Waddell
To: "gorgmclist@list.gmcnet."
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes....yes...and more yesses ...included off set bushings for more caster....can you elaborate on #4....brian 77 ele
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305838 is a reply to message #305814] |
Mon, 22 August 2016 17:55 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
|
Senior Member |
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|
I am thinking a new one as I will not be trying to adjust mine,,,I did try adjusting what I call the friction adjuster on the outside of the box....made no difference...thx brian 77 ele 455
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Keith V
Sent: August 22, 2016 11:03 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
I spent a lot of time on my steering, it still has a tiny bit of slop as compared to my R&P daily driver, but it now drives very well.
The last thing I did was adjust the steering box, thats a job and a half right there.
If you have not adjusted your steering box, do that, or buy a variable one
----------------------------------------
>
> Brian,
>
> Since you have done everything else it sounds like your steering problem could, in fact, be either the boomerang (steering relay) or the steering box or both. As for how much and where to grind the relay, I think you should talk to Bob Stone or perhaps Dave Lenzi. I watched while Bob did the grinding. As I mentioned before, you have to be careful doing this. After doing everything else (the things you have also done) Bob drove the coach and on the highway felt it trying to stay in the direction pointed. Not stuck so that it is hard to turn the wheel, just stuck so that you have to constantly correct. It doesn't want to correct on its own. If that is what your coach does the relay "could" be at least part of the problem. There are clearance tolerances on the grinding so you definitely need to talk with either Dave or Bob before trying this. Bob Stone's number is 618 - nine six four - nine one two four. If out, leave a message.
>
> There was improvement in my coach after we re-installed the boomerang but still too much steering play. After doing everything else, it almost had to be the steering box. When we took off the box, and had it on the bench, you could feel the play in the pitman arm across the turning range. We did the same thing with my new box. It had zero play.
>
> Also, feel free to call me 270 - four four three - five two six three. We're on CDT.
>
> Tom Whitton
> 26 foot updated GMC
> Paducah, KY
>
>
> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 00:42:40 +0000
> From: Brian Waddell
> To: "gorgmclist@list.gmcnet."
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Yes....yes...and more yesses ...included off set bushings for more caster....can you elaborate on #4....brian 77 ele
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Gmclist Info Page - list.gmcnet.org
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To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Gmclist Archives. Using Gmclist: To post a message to all the list members, send email ...
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305847 is a reply to message #305691] |
Mon, 22 August 2016 20:32 |
Tom Whitton
Messages: 235
Registered: February 2004
Location: Paducah, KY
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Brian,
Yes, as I mentioned, mine was also new from Dave Lenzi. As I understand it, Dave did a few of them with tolerances that are too tight. Therefore, the steering sticking problem. We took mine off, checked the tolerances and as suspected, they were too tight. After that, we ground the Boomerang (relay lever) down. Suddenly, the steering no longer stuck. It might be worth a check of yours. It may improve your steering. If you still have play after that go for a new box. Please let us know your results.
Good luck,
Tom Whitton
26 foot updated GMC
Paducah, KY
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 22:19:22 +0000
From: Brian Waddell
To: "gmclist@list.gmcnet.org"
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Oh...by the term "boomeramg" you mean the relay arm.....this was replaced with a new one from Dave Lenz, as well as the relay lever...thanks for your input....I will call if needed...thank you....Brian 77 ele 455
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| Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear [message #305848 is a reply to message #305847] |
Mon, 22 August 2016 20:46 |
Brian Waddell
Messages: 409
Registered: March 2010
Karma: -4
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ok...I will call dave....do you know what tolerance was too tight ?....thanks...brian 77 ele 455
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Tom Whitton
Sent: August 22, 2016 7:32 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
Brian,
Yes, as I mentioned, mine was also new from Dave Lenzi. As I understand it, Dave did a few of them with tolerances that are too tight. Therefore, the steering sticking problem. We took mine off, checked the tolerances and as suspected, they were too tight. After that, we ground the Boomerang (relay lever) down. Suddenly, the steering no longer stuck. It might be worth a check of yours. It may improve your steering. If you still have play after that go for a new box. Please let us know your results.
Good luck,
Tom Whitton
26 foot updated GMC
Paducah, KY
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 22:19:22 +0000
From: Brian Waddell
To: "gmclist@list.gmcnet.org"
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Variable Ratio Steering Gear
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Oh...by the term "boomeramg" you mean the relay arm.....this was replaced with a new one from Dave Lenz, as well as the relay lever...thanks for your input....I will call if needed...thank you....Brian 77 ele 455
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