Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Aux A/C (Adding engine driven auxiliary A/C)
| Aux A/C [message #304331] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 10:03  |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Reading the recent dash air threads reminded me that I've always intended to investigate adding an auxiliary A/C unit somewhere back in the coach. It seems the best location would be over the refrigerator but not sure there's enough space. We have the built in vacuum system but never use it and intend to remove it for more storage. Aux A/C would fit easily in there but blowing cold air at floor level isn't optimum by a long shot.
What have others done? What have you considered doing but discarded and why?
1978 Eleganza II
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Aux A/C [message #304333 is a reply to message #304331] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 10:22  |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I put an Aux unit under the drivers side couch, it's floor level but blows out through a rotating vent that is usually pointed up in the air.
The furnace is also under there so I didn't have any storage anyway.
I have the fan control on the floor by the drivers seat so I can reach it. The fan switch is out of a late 90's caravan.
I had custom hose run by an AC shop.
It works really well, it's a big unit out of the back of an old conversion van. Between that and the dash air it can actually cool the ol beast off.
I think I have pictures on the photosite, but I can't access it from work
>
> Reading the recent dash air threads reminded me that I've always intended to investigate adding an auxiliary A/C unit somewhere back in the coach. It
> seems the best location would be over the refrigerator but not sure there's enough space. We have the built in vacuum system but never use it and
> intend to remove it for more storage. Aux A/C would fit easily in there but blowing cold air at floor level isn't optimum by a long shot.
>
> What have others done? What have you considered doing but discarded and why?
> --
> 1978 Eleganza II
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Aux A/C [message #304348 is a reply to message #304331] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 12:03 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I've been considering this as well, and I think under the fridge would be the best spot. If you get one of the aux units with both heat and AC, you can set up 2 sets of selectable vents. Use the floor vents for when running heat, and duct the AC in the space where the vac accessories go to an output above the monitoring board. If you are still running the water heater with the option to use engine coolant to heat it, the lines run right through there... You could use those to supply the heater core, and run the AC lines right along side.
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Aux A/C [message #304350 is a reply to message #304340] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 12:27 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
emerystora wrote on Wed, 27 July 2016 12:23Ken
I don't think that you want to put it over the refrigerator as that area gets rather hot from the refrigerator and it would negate some of your cooling.
Emery Stora
If that heat isn't being vented outside, then you'd do well to run it through the aux A/C and reduce the heat load in the coach.
1978 Eleganza II
|
|
|
|
| Re: Aux A/C [message #304351 is a reply to message #304348] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 12:29 |
kwharland
Messages: 246
Registered: November 2005
Location: Central Florida
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
TR 1 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2016 13:03I've been considering this as well, and I think under the fridge would be the best spot. If you get one of the aux units with both heat and AC, you can set up 2 sets of selectable vents. Use the floor vents for when running heat, and duct the AC in the space where the vac accessories go to an output above the monitoring board. If you are still running the water heater with the option to use engine coolant to heat it, the lines run right through there... You could use those to supply the heater core, and run the AC lines right along side.
I like your idea about running the duct up alongside the vac tool storage area, hadn't considered that. Incorporating a unit that also has heat is an interesting idea, being from Florida we rarely consider the need for heat but we certainly used all we had in our previous coach while vacationing in the mountains of New Mexico.
1978 Eleganza II
|
|
|
|
| Re: Aux A/C [message #304353 is a reply to message #304351] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 12:45 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I guess if it were me, I would put it more toward the front. Under the couch, under the dinette, or under the Passenger seat blowing back and to the side.
with my generator running, and my 15.5k roof air blasting that is located in the mid hole in the roof about even with the entry door of my 26' palm beach, is Barely adequate to cool the front area of the GMC. I actually plan to put my box fan on the floor when we travel to push more cool air to the front of the coach.
I guess what I am saying, it is easier to cool the front of the coach and get the air to the back, then it is to cool the back of the coach and push air to the front, where the windshield creates the most heat.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
| Re: Aux A/C [message #304363 is a reply to message #304351] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 15:02 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
kwharland wrote on Wed, 27 July 2016 12:29
I like your idea about running the duct up alongside the vac tool storage area, hadn't considered that. Incorporating a unit that also has heat is an interesting idea, being from Florida we rarely consider the need for heat but we certainly used all we had in our previous coach while vacationing in the mountains of New Mexico.
Yeah, not sure how much I'd use the heat option in Texas either, but from what I've seen, a heater core only adds 50-75 bucks to the total cost... and "T-ing" into those coolant lines under the fridge would't add much time to the project either. I for sure plan to take some trips to colder climates... If those trips end up happening in winter, would be nice to have additional heat.
The under the seat option is nice as well, but without ducting, won't afford you an easy way to get the cold air high, or the warm air low...
This site has ceiling, cabinet and ducted assemblies available:
http://www.discountvantruck.com/rvvanrearairconditioners/airconditionersheaterscondensers.htm
The ducted units are what I am considering, and are under "Conversion Van"
My problem (Well one of them  is the previous owner of my coach changed out the A6 for a Sanden compressor.. and I don't think it has the capacity needed. (If anyone is interested in a trade, please let me know. The Sanden will probably net you better mileage, is a modern design, and it cools great if just running the standard dash AC)
I heard the A6 will push 50K BTUs... I think the Sanden will only do 25-30? Anyone know the capacity of our condensers?
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2016 15:04] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Aux A/C [message #304364 is a reply to message #304363] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 15:15 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
My Aux unit has a heater core in it too, Ive left it there for a future upgrade, IF I decide I need it, So far heat has never been a problem!
But like said, All I'd have to do is to T the hot water lines to the water heater and add a valve to shut it off.
>
> kwharland wrote on Wed, 27 July 2016 12:29
>> TR 1 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2016 13:03
>>> I've been considering this as well, and I think under the fridge would be the best spot. If you get one of the aux units with both heat and
>>> AC, you can set up 2 sets of selectable vents. Use the floor vents for when running heat, and duct the AC in the space where the vac accessories
>>> go to an output above the monitoring board. If you are still running the water heater with the option to use engine coolant to heat it, the lines
>>> run right through there... You could use those to supply the heater core, and run the AC lines right along side.
>>
>>
>> I like your idea about running the duct up alongside the vac tool storage area, hadn't considered that. Incorporating a unit that also has heat
>> is an interesting idea, being from Florida we rarely consider the need for heat but we certainly used all we had in our previous coach while
>> vacationing in the mountains of New Mexico.
>
>
> Yeah, not sure how much I'd use the heat option in Texas either, but from what I've seen, a heater core only adds 50-75 bucks to the total cost...
> and "T-ing" into those coolant lines under the fridge would't add much time to the project either. I for sure plan to take some trips to colder
> climates... If those trips end up happening in winter, would be nice to have additional heat.
>
> The under the seat option is nice as well, but without ducting, won't afford you an easy way to get the cold air high, or the warm air low...
>
> This site has ceiling, cabinet and ducted assemblies available:
>
> http://www.discountvantruck.com/rvvanrearairconditioners/airconditionersheaterscondensers.htm
>
> The ducted units are what I am considering, and are under "Conversion Van"
>
> My problem (Well one of them ;) is the previous owner of my coach changed out the A6 for a Sanden compressor.. and I don't think it has the capacity
> needed. (If anyone is interested in a trade, please let me know. The Sanden will probably net you better mileage, is a modern design, and it cools
> great if just running the standard dash AC)
>
> I heard the A6 will push 50K BTUs... I think the Sanden will only do 25-30? Anyone know the capacity of our condensers?
>
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Aux A/C [message #304372 is a reply to message #304364] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 16:39 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Keith V wrote on Wed, 27 July 2016 15:15My Aux unit has a heater core in it too, Ive left it there for a future upgrade, IF I decide I need it, So far heat has never been a problem!
But like said, All I'd have to do is to T the hot water lines to the water heater and add a valve to shut it off.
Keith,
Do you normally run the furnace when using your coach in winter? Or is the GMC dash heater strong enough for Minnesota winters? Also, do you know if the Aux unit you used is metered with a TXV?
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Aux A/C [message #304375 is a reply to message #304372] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 16:52 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ive never been out in the cold with the GMC, but we are planning an october trip this year we will see!
The Aux AC unit does have a valve in it, I forget what kind, but it works well with the GMC Unit.
I flushed it and ran it as is, nice n cold :D
>
> Keith V wrote on Wed, 27 July 2016 15:15
>> My Aux unit has a heater core in it too, Ive left it there for a future upgrade, IF I decide I need it, So far heat has never been a problem!
>> But like said, All I'd have to do is to T the hot water lines to the water heater and add a valve to shut it off.
>
>
> Keith,
>
> Do you normally run the furnace when using your coach in winter? Or is the GMC dash heater strong enough for Minnesota winters? Also, do you know if
> the Aux unit you used is metered with a TXV?
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Aux A/C [message #304378 is a reply to message #304363] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 17:57 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mark,
Thanks for publishing that equipment source; I'd never seen it before. The
$$$ might have stopped me, but I'd have seriously considered using one of
those integrated heat/def/cool units to replace the GMC HVAC instead of
redesigning it as I did. I haven't rechecked the measurements, but I
believe at least a 28,000 btu unit could have been installed forward of the
firewall. Details such as return air routing might make that unfeasible
tho'.
I can't find the data I accumulated back when I installed my Sanden-clone
and redesigned the dash air; but, IIRC, the A-6's max output is 42,000 btu
vs the largest Sanden's 36,000. The A-6 displacement is about 206 cc and
the Sanden's about 160 cc, so the greater capacity is understandable.
Performance-wise, I'm happier with the Sanden than I was with the A-6. It
cools at lease as well. It seems to require less power to drive and, of
course, is MUCH easier to work with and around.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Mark Sawyer
wrote:
> ...
> This site has ceiling, cabinet and ducted assemblies available:
>
>
> http://www.discountvantruck.com/rvvanrearairconditioners/airconditionersheaterscondensers.htm
>
> The ducted units are what I am considering, and are under "Conversion Van"
>
> My problem (Well one of them ;) is the previous owner of my coach changed
> out the A6 for a Sanden compressor.. and I don't think it has the capacity
> needed. (If anyone is interested in a trade, please let me know. The
> Sanden will probably net you better mileage, is a modern design, and it
> cools
> great if just running the standard dash AC)
>
> I heard the A6 will push 50K BTUs... I think the Sanden will only do
> 25-30? Anyone know the capacity of our condensers?
> --
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Aux A/C [message #304388 is a reply to message #304378] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 21:58 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 27 July 2016 17:57Mark,
Thanks for publishing that equipment source; I'd never seen it before. The
$$$ might have stopped me, but I'd have seriously considered using one of
those integrated heat/def/cool units to replace the GMC HVAC instead of
redesigning it as I did. I haven't rechecked the measurements, but I
believe at least a 28,000 btu unit could have been installed forward of the
firewall. Details such as return air routing might make that unfeasible
tho'.
I can't find the data I accumulated back when I installed my Sanden-clone
and redesigned the dash air; but, IIRC, the A-6's max output is 42,000 btu
vs the largest Sanden's 36,000. The A-6 displacement is about 206 cc and
the Sanden's about 160 cc, so the greater capacity is understandable.
Performance-wise, I'm happier with the Sanden than I was with the A-6. It
cools at lease as well. It seems to require less power to drive and, of
course, is MUCH easier to work with and around.
Ken H.
Ken,
Thanks very much for posting those BTU #s... I'd read about the difference in displacement between the Sanden and the A6, and based on that I thought the actual difference in BTUs would be greater... Maybe I'll be able to stick with what I have...
Do you have any details on how you redesigned your dash AC? Is there a writeup here on the list?
From searching around further, I found that some of the online forums for limo drivers are excellent sources for aux AC information. No one wants to sweat when riding in a limo, and those guys have to sit and idle outside weddings, etc. for hours, and still keep the passengers cool...
It looks like the majority of large stretch limos use aux ACs made by a company called Manex:
http://mxheatcool.com/c-695020-hvac-systems-evaporator-assemblies-remote-mount-evaporator-assemblies-heat-cool-combo.html
This is just the page with remote evaporators, but they appear to have everything imaginable for adding additional HVAC capacity to a vehicle...
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Aux A/C [message #304391 is a reply to message #304388] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 23:04 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mark,
I started out by rebuilding the dash. That's here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g4899-new-dash-panel.html
Then I replaced the HVAC box:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5280-dash-air-conditioning-redesign.html
The dash is "nearly perfect" for our needs.
The HVAC is much better, but still not really up to modern "blow your ears
off" standards. We very rarely resort to roof air, usually only when I'm
in hot afternoon sun -- and she's got a blanket in her lap.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 10:58 PM, Mark Sawyer
wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Thanks very much for posting those BTU #s... I'd read about the
> difference in displacement between the Sanden and the A6, and based on that
> I thought
> the actual difference in BTUs would be greater... Maybe I'll be able to
> stick with what I have...
>
> Do you have any details on how you redesigned your dash AC? Is there a
> writeup here on the list?
>
> From searching around further, I found that some of the online forums for
> limo drivers are excellent sources for aux AC information. No one wants to
> sweat when riding in a limo, and those guys have to sit and idle outside
> weddings, etc. for hours, and still keep the passengers cool...
>
> It looks like the majority of large stretch limos use aux ACs made by a
> company called Manex:
>
>
> http://mxheatcool.com/c-695020-hvac-systems-evaporator-assemblies-remote-mount-evaporator-assemblies-heat-cool-combo.html
>
> This is just the page with remote evaporators, but they appear to have
> everything imaginable for adding additional HVAC capacity to a vehicle...
>
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
|
|
|
|
| Re: Aux A/C [message #304394 is a reply to message #304331] |
Thu, 28 July 2016 00:33 |
Greenchevelless
Messages: 25
Registered: February 2013
Location: Tulsa, Okiehoma
Karma: 0
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Ive got a heat and ac unit from an old ambulance ive been trying to figure out where to mount it. I think its too big to mount under the dinette. Ive been thinking under the fridge but I think its too big to go there as well.
1976 Palm Beach 26'
|
|
|
|
| Re: Aux A/C [message #304405 is a reply to message #304331] |
Thu, 28 July 2016 08:01 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yes, looks like some of those units can get pretty big... Manex looks to have a full engine driven system with a 60,000 btu capacity! That's 4 1/2 tons! Enough to cool a decent size house...
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
[Updated on: Thu, 28 July 2016 08:01] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Aux A/C [message #304419 is a reply to message #304394] |
Thu, 28 July 2016 10:40 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dan are you really only 18 years old? You're very knowledgeable to be that young.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
|
|
|
|
| Re: Aux A/C [message #304427 is a reply to message #304331] |
Thu, 28 July 2016 11:30 |
TR 1
Messages: 348
Registered: August 2015
Location: DFW
Karma: -7
|
Senior Member |
|
|
WOW! That Manex site has a great HVAC FAQ...
Here's something I did not know... Hopefully it will help someone else out... I'll make sure I clean the threads on any 134a system before I reassemble...
Q: Can I use PAG oil on my O-Ring's?
NO, there are only two types of oil recommended for use on o-rings. Mineral oil (same oil that was used in the old R-12 systems) and O-Ring Lube that is a silicone based product. When PAG oil is used it gets on the threads of the fitting connection resulting in a chemical reaction between the oil, the moisture in the air and the oxygen. This reaction creates and acid the eats away at the threads or seizes them. When you try to service the unit you either twist off the threads or twist the tubing resulting in more damage to the system.
http://mxheatcool.com/ft-1050-ask-an-expert.html
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Aux A/C [message #304432 is a reply to message #304372] |
Thu, 28 July 2016 11:53 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
GMC dash heater has same problem as our dash A/C.
I use my furnace in the winter, both parked and while going down the road. It is the original Sol-Aire, and it works well. I have had it apart and it is not rusted out yet.... I also keep the Carbon monoxide detectors batteried up well and going.
The furnace keeps the coach plenty warm in the winter. How hard it works and how often it is running all depends on the weather. a tank of propane will easily last 3+ days of sub zero weather, with not much insulation.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Mon Nov 18 03:55:52 CST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01647 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
