Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount
Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount [message #304263] |
Tue, 26 July 2016 11:43 |
gladius
Messages: 48 Registered: November 2015
Karma: 0
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I'm planning on brazing in access valves to the Duo-Therm on my 78 Royale and recharging it with propane or propane/isobutane, as appropriate. Does anyone know what refrigerant (R-12 or R-22) is used in these, and what is the total charge amount? Thank you
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Re: Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount [message #304278 is a reply to message #304263] |
Tue, 26 July 2016 13:35 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474 Registered: May 2008 Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
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IIRC a while back of a thread here on this subject. and that person did make the change to Duracool HC22a.
If my thinking is right, the final suction side pressure was 73 psi., with an improvement in the cold air output.
I don't recall who or exactly how far back that thread was. I'm also interested in doing this type of change.
FWIW
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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Re: Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount [message #304387 is a reply to message #304263] |
Wed, 27 July 2016 20:50 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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These are called hermetically sealed units. If they don't leak, they don't leak. All dash air systems are automotive type and all leak by design. There are specs on what a normal leak rate is in a vehicle's FSM. Back to the DuoTherm R22 unit. Sounds like your system has not lost it's charge. For future reference R22 is still readily avalable and cost not an issue in the small ammounts needed. I would not go to a HC drop in on a hermetic system since the electric motor section of the compressor is exposed to the refigerant path.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount [message #304565 is a reply to message #304263] |
Fri, 29 July 2016 21:19 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I thought R12 and R22 are largely non poisonous. It displaces oxygen when in high concentrations and therefore can cause oxygen starvation. The catalytic effect on the ozone layer is a reletively recent discovery in the time frame of the CFCs. They were used largely in manufactuing processes and as propellant prior to discovery of the ozone issue were free air vented as common practice. Since this has stopped for the most part, the ozone layer is doing some remarkable healing.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount [message #304578 is a reply to message #304263] |
Sat, 30 July 2016 08:52 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Exactly. The huge amounts used as automotive refrigerant were dwarfed by industrial uses. And yes on the deadly phosgene. I was considering a person using it in a non combustion state. I hear 134a is very bad health wise though less ozone damaging.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount [message #304643 is a reply to message #304576] |
Sun, 31 July 2016 16:36 |
gladius
Messages: 48 Registered: November 2015
Karma: 0
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"If it's not leaking I would not open it up. Especially if I didn't have the means to recycle."
The best way to recycle patented, poisonous refrigerants is to ventilate them to the atmosphere, where they will never be seen or heard from again, and never have the opportunity to contaminate someone else's refrigeration system. Let mother nature do the recycling.
I'd much rather open up the system to charge with a new refrigerant and install an access valve for future service on my own time and terms, rather than waiting until a problem develops in the middle of summer, where I get to do the same job in 100+ degree heat. I'll keep using the unit as-is for now, but this fall it's getting charged with propane.
[Updated on: Sun, 31 July 2016 16:36] Report message to a moderator
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Re: [GMCnet] Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount [message #304644 is a reply to message #304642] |
Sun, 31 July 2016 17:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
You think that the ozone layer hole might have something to do with this?
Australia has a very high - and increasing - rate of melanoma. In 2012, deaths from melanoma occurred in 7.3-9.8 per 100,000
population. In Australia, melanoma is the third most common cancer in either sex; indeed, its incidence is higher than for lung
cancer, although the latter accounts for more deaths. It is estimated that in 2012, more than 12,000 Australians were diagnosed with
melanoma: given Australia's modest population, this is better expressed as 59.6 new cases per 100,000 population per year; >1 in 10
of all new cancer cases were melanomas.[86] Melanoma incidence in Australia is matter of significance, for the following reasons:
Australian melanoma incidence has increased by more than 30 per cent between 1991 and 2009.
Australian melanoma age-standardised incidence rates were, as of 2008, at least 12 times higher than the world average.
Australian melanoma incidence is, by some margin, the highest in the world.
Overall age-standardised cancer incidence in Australia is the highest in the world, and this is attributable to melanoma alone.
Age-standardised overall cancer incidence is similar to New Zealand, but there is a statistically-significant difference between
Australia and all other parts of the developed world including North America, Western Europe, and the Mediterranean.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Cline
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2016 7:30 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount
"The catalytic effect on the ozone layer is a reletively recent discovery in the time frame of the CFCs."
Discovery...or total fabrication?
"They were used largely in manufactuing processes and as propellant prior to discovery of the ozone issue were free air vented as
common practice.
Since this has stopped for the most part, the ozone layer is doing some remarkable healing."
Isn't it convenient that the ozone hole decided to locate itself over Antarctica, where you or I cannot confirm or deny its actual
existence?
Funny that much of the rest of the world still uses CFCs, such as China which is now the largest economy in the world, and yet
somehow the "ozone hole" is said to be shrinking. I guess the Chinese R12 isn't harmful to the ozone layer. You'd think the
existence of a hole in the ozone layer would continue to be alarming news, but it's funny that all mentions of it disappeared from
the news media after R12 was successfully phased out.
I think it's far more likely that the "ozone hole" was a convenient excuse to mandate the changeover to DuPont's newest patented
refrigerant (R134a) after their R12 patents expired. The new boogeyman is "global warming" aka global cooling, aka climate change,
aka catastrophic climate disruption, which will of course mandate a shift to whatever new patented refrigerant DuPont has prepared
for us.
--
Gadsden, AL
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount [message #304654 is a reply to message #304644] |
Sun, 31 July 2016 18:30 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452 Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Due to elliptical orbit of Earth around Sun an ~ 23 degree tilt of Earth's axis, southern hemisphere gets higher dose of solar radiation in Summer there. Add the typical inclination of Aussies for suntans and the result is to be expected!
Mac in OKC, OK
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2016, at 16:51, Rob Mueller wrote:
G'day,
You think that the ozone layer hole might have something to do with this?
Australia has a very high - and increasing - rate of melanoma. In 2012, deaths from melanoma occurred in 7.3-9.8 per 100,000
population. In Australia, melanoma is the third most common cancer in either sex; indeed, its incidence is higher than for lung
cancer, although the latter accounts for more deaths. It is estimated that in 2012, more than 12,000 Australians were diagnosed with
melanoma: given Australia's modest population, this is better expressed as 59.6 new cases per 100,000 population per year; >1 in 10
of all new cancer cases were melanomas.[86] Melanoma incidence in Australia is matter of significance, for the following reasons:
Australian melanoma incidence has increased by more than 30 per cent between 1991 and 2009.
Australian melanoma age-standardised incidence rates were, as of 2008, at least 12 times higher than the world average.
Australian melanoma incidence is, by some margin, the highest in the world.
Overall age-standardised cancer incidence in Australia is the highest in the world, and this is attributable to melanoma alone.
Age-standardised overall cancer incidence is similar to New Zealand, but there is a statistically-significant difference between
Australia and all other parts of the developed world including North America, Western Europe, and the Mediterranean.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Cline
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2016 7:30 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount
"The catalytic effect on the ozone layer is a reletively recent discovery in the time frame of the CFCs."
Discovery...or total fabrication?
"They were used largely in manufactuing processes and as propellant prior to discovery of the ozone issue were free air vented as
common practice.
Since this has stopped for the most part, the ozone layer is doing some remarkable healing."
Isn't it convenient that the ozone hole decided to locate itself over Antarctica, where you or I cannot confirm or deny its actual
existence?
Funny that much of the rest of the world still uses CFCs, such as China which is now the largest economy in the world, and yet
somehow the "ozone hole" is said to be shrinking. I guess the Chinese R12 isn't harmful to the ozone layer. You'd think the
existence of a hole in the ozone layer would continue to be alarming news, but it's funny that all mentions of it disappeared from
the news media after R12 was successfully phased out.
I think it's far more likely that the "ozone hole" was a convenient excuse to mandate the changeover to DuPont's newest patented
refrigerant (R134a) after their R12 patents expired. The new boogeyman is "global warming" aka global cooling, aka climate change,
aka catastrophic climate disruption, which will of course mandate a shift to whatever new patented refrigerant DuPont has prepared
for us.
--
Gadsden, AL
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http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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Re: [GMCnet] Duo-Therm refrigerant and charge amount [message #304655 is a reply to message #304654] |
Sun, 31 July 2016 19:04 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005 Registered: August 2004 Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The
"replacement" for R134 is so dangerous that it will require total protection for workers who handle it. So corrosive, it will require total redesign and replacement of cooling systems to handle it. Bring on the Duracool.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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