Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Trip report--good and some bad
| Trip report--good and some bad [message #303363] |
Sun, 10 July 2016 11:55  |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I just returned from a trip to Bolsa Seca beach near Huntington CA. It's one of the few state campgrounds were you can park along the beach. It's a great location and I was lucky enough to get a great spot that I had to reserve in Dec 2015. Before I left I noticed the GMC had some vapor lock even with the electric pump on. The Carter pump had failed once again (second one). I replaced it with a Carter turbine pump rather than a pulsating unit. The temps in Phoenix ran about 115 F and luckily no hint of vapor lock. I was also very pleased with the 10 blade fan and severe duty Hayden clutch ( stamped made in USA). The combination cycled as expected and the fan has a very muted whirring noise compared to the roar of the original. On the way to CA I noticed a moment of what felt like sudden wheel unbalance it the front with oscillating steering wheel feedback. I pulled over thinking I may have a tire coming apart. I couldn't see anything and wrote it off as rough road input. I-10 really is in rough shape all the way from Phoenix to LA area. I had no more issues and the coach ran great at about 65 mph even with some long grades after Quartzite. While camped, I had many people stop by wanting to learn more about the GMC. I even had one woman stop by who had one herself that she rents out. It made me feel good since I was surrounded by giant and expensive SOB's. On the return trip I was feeling very good about how well and smooth the coach ran esp with temps approaching 120. Suddenly on the west side of Phoenix I felt a sharp knock in the steering wheel as if I had hit something. That repeated a few times till all of a sudden the whole front end started shaking violently and I had to cross about 4 lanes of traffic to get off the highway quickly. When I slowed down, it went away and I decided to take surface roads for the rest of the way home. I did get it up to 55 once with no shaking. It appeared to be the left front that was shaking. I have never had a wheel bearing or CV joint failure but I'm suspicious of the LH outer CV joint. I was surprised by how violent the shaking was and then it went away. I could feel a direct hammering or lumpy feel in the steering wheel-almost to the point that I thought it may lock up. Has anyone experienced a similar condition? I can't see anything wrong--the CV boots are fine, and there is no looseness in the suspension or steering. I can't think of anything other than the wheel bearing or the outer CV joint. Thoughts?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report--good and some bad [message #303366 is a reply to message #303363] |
Sun, 10 July 2016 12:20  |
Burt and Faye curtis
Messages: 256
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
We had the same problem several years ago while we were in the San
Fransisco Bay area. Bert suspected cv joint, but after jacking it up at a
friend's house and not seeing anything really amiss, we headed home - about
a 6 hour drive. Noise went away and we made it home alright. However, on
further inspection, the one cv joint was totally shot and even now we
aren't totally sure how we made it back with no problem. Same sounding
symptoms as you list - violent shaking, hammering noise, etc, however ours
was on the passenger side.
Fay Curtis
'76 Glenbrook aka Tumbleweed
Kneeland, Ca
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
> I just returned from a trip to Bolsa Seca beach near Huntington CA. It's
> one of the few state campgrounds were you can park along the beach. It's a
> great location and I was lucky enough to get a great spot that I had to
> reserve in Dec 2015. Before I left I noticed the GMC had some vapor lock
> even
> with the electric pump on. The Carter pump had failed once again (second
> one). I replaced it with a Carter turbine pump rather than a pulsating unit.
> The temps in Phoenix ran about 115 F and luckily no hint of vapor lock. I
> was also very pleased with the 10 blade fan and severe duty Hayden clutch (
> stamped made in USA). The combination cycled as expected and the fan has a
> very muted whirring noise compared to the roar of the original. On the way
> to CA I noticed a moment of what felt like sudden wheel unbalance it the
> front with oscillating steering wheel feedback. I pulled over thinking I may
> have a tire coming apart. I couldn't see anything and wrote it off as
> rough road input. I-10 really is in rough shape all the way from Phoenix to
> LA
> area. I had no more issues and the coach ran great at about 65 mph even
> with some long grades after Quartzite. While camped, I had many people stop
> by
> wanting to learn more about the GMC. I even had one woman stop by who had
> one herself that she rents out. It made me feel good since I was surrounded
> by giant and expensive SOB's. On the return trip I was feeling very good
> about how well and smooth the coach ran esp with temps approaching 120.
> Suddenly on the west side of Phoenix I felt a sharp knock in the steering
> wheel as if I had hit something. That repeated a few times till all of a
> sudden the whole front end started shaking violently and I had to cross
> about 4 lanes of traffic to get off the highway quickly. When I slowed down,
> it went away and I decided to take surface roads for the rest of the way
> home. I did get it up to 55 once with no shaking. It appeared to be the left
> front that was shaking. I have never had a wheel bearing or CV joint
> failure but I'm suspicious of the LH outer CV joint. I was surprised by how
> violent the shaking was and then it went away. I could feel a direct
> hammering or lumpy feel in the steering wheel-almost to the point that I
> thought
> it may lock up. Has anyone experienced a similar condition? I can't see
> anything wrong--the CV boots are fine, and there is no looseness in the
> suspension or steering. I can't think of anything other than the wheel
> bearing or the outer CV joint. Thoughts?
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report--good and some bad [message #303367 is a reply to message #303366] |
Sun, 10 July 2016 12:49 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Bob,
We had the same problem several years ago while we were in the San
Fransisco Bay area. Bert suspected cv joint, but after jacking it up at a
friend's house and not seeing anything really amiss, we headed home - about
a 6 hour drive. Noise went away and we made it home alright. However, on
further inspection, the one cv joint was totally shot and even now we
aren't totally sure how we made it back with no problem. Same sounding
symptoms as you list - violent shaking, hammering noise, etc, however ours
was on the passenger side.
Fay Curtis
'76 Glenbrook aka Tumbleweed
Kneeland, Ca""
Thank you Faye--that confirms my suspicions. I also think that during all of the sequence of events, it seems that if I turned the steering substantially like going around a corner or pulling off the road, it temporarily made the issue disappear.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Trip report--good and some bad [message #303368 is a reply to message #303363] |
Sun, 10 July 2016 12:50 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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That sounds a lot like "death wobble", a condition common to solid axle four wheel drives. It is usually caused by a combination of components that have just a little excessive wear on them (Worn ball joints or king pins, loose track bar mounting, worn tie rod ends, etc). The steering stabilizer helps to prevent this from happening.
I'm not sure how any of this applies to an independent front suspension like we have on our coaches, but I would guess the same wear points might cause the problem and a worn out steering stabilizer might make it more noticeable. I know you checked the steering components for looseness, but a tiny bit of play in each component can sometimes add up to enough to cause problems. You might want to recheck everything without a load on it if possible. Obviously there is a problem.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report--good and some bad [message #303372 is a reply to message #303363] |
Sun, 10 July 2016 13:16 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
I haven't experienced exactly the CV problem you report, but I have heard
similar. I think what happens is that the CV develops a bad spot in the
"channel" where a ball runs. If the ball gets trapped in that position,
everything goes haywire, causing the violent out of balance condition.
Once the ball moves back into smooth territory, whether from wheel angle,
velocity, magic, ???, it runs smoothly again. I've got nothing to
substantiate that theory, but I will bet that you have a bad CV -- probably
Outer LF.
Be sure to let us know what you learn.
Ken H.
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
> ...On the way
> to CA I noticed a moment of what felt like sudden wheel unbalance it the
> front with oscillating steering wheel feedback. I pulled over thinking I may
> have a tire coming apart. I couldn't see anything and wrote it off as
> rough road input. ...
Suddenly on the west side of Phoenix I felt a sharp knock in the steering
> wheel as if I had hit something. That repeated a few times till all of a
> sudden the whole front end started shaking violently and I had to cross
> about 4 lanes of traffic to get off the highway quickly. When I slowed down,
> it went away and I decided to take surface roads for the rest of the way
> home. I did get it up to 55 once with no shaking. It appeared to be the left
> front that was shaking. I have never had a wheel bearing or CV joint
> failure but I'm suspicious of the LH outer CV joint. I was surprised by how
> violent the shaking was and then it went away. I could feel a direct
> hammering or lumpy feel in the steering wheel-almost to the point that I
> thought
> it may lock up. Has anyone experienced a similar condition? I can't see
> anything wrong--the CV boots are fine, and there is no looseness in the
> suspension or steering. I can't think of anything other than the wheel
> bearing or the outer CV joint. Thoughts?
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report--good and some bad [message #303373 is a reply to message #303367] |
Sun, 10 July 2016 13:17 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
Re your vapor lock,
I'm assuming your replace all your fuel and vapor rubber lines.
I encourage you to route the fuel lines immediately to the out side of the
frame and put a new tank selector valve on the outside of the frame
followed by a big fuel filter then your electric pump.Route the fuel rubber
to the front and connect to the original steel line.
Most of the time people bypass the mechanical pump and purchase from us the
block off plate and the fittings to the steel tube that runs to the carb.
Have all that fit compactly as possible with hardly no excess hose.
The heat between the frame is considerably higher, so we ecourage people to
move all to where it is cooler.
I'm tending to recommend people to use the fuel pump with the return line
as people are telling me it helped with their problems.
Only concern is to replace that rubber hose after 10 years as it is uder
pressure and you do not need it to leak.
If you go to our web site under ENGINES, you will se how we show the aux.
fuel pump system.
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
> ""Bob,
>
> We had the same problem several years ago while we were in the San
> Fransisco Bay area. Bert suspected cv joint, but after jacking it up at a
> friend's house and not seeing anything really amiss, we headed home - about
> a 6 hour drive. Noise went away and we made it home alright. However, on
> further inspection, the one cv joint was totally shot and even now we
> aren't totally sure how we made it back with no problem. Same sounding
> symptoms as you list - violent shaking, hammering noise, etc, however ours
> was on the passenger side.
>
> Fay Curtis
> '76 Glenbrook aka Tumbleweed
> Kneeland, Ca""
>
> Thank you Faye--that confirms my suspicions. I also think that during all
> of the sequence of events, it seems that if I turned the steering
> substantially like going around a corner or pulling off the road, it
> temporarily made the issue disappear.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report--good and some bad [message #303406 is a reply to message #303372] |
Sun, 10 July 2016 22:29 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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That sounds exactly what is going on Ken, I have a rebuilt asm from years ago but I think I will get an outer joint from Jim. It is overbearingly hot here but I think I can get one of my techs to do it while I look on  I sort of remember that the LH shaft can be wrestled out of there without pulling the knuckle.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report--good and some bad [message #303408 is a reply to message #303406] |
Sun, 10 July 2016 22:48 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
With enough jiggling, either side axle can be removed without disturbing
the knuckle other than turning it to one side -- which???
Don't have to remove the starter when the R. side either -- some say
different but I've done it several times. MAY have to loosen one end of
the shock.
Ken H.
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 11:29 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
> That sounds exactly what is going on Ken, I have a rebuilt asm from years
> ago but I think I will get an outer joint from Jim. It is overbearingly hot
> here but I think I can get one of my techs to do it while I look on :) I
> sort of remember that the LH shaft can be wrestled out of there without
> pulling the knuckle.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report--good and some bad [message #303412 is a reply to message #303408] |
Mon, 11 July 2016 00:11 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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For more clearance raise the front end up until tires are off the floor.
This will allow the inner cv to drop down and enable the shaft to slide out.
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> Bob,
>
> With enough jiggling, either side axle can be removed without disturbing
> the knuckle other than turning it to one side -- which???
>
> Don't have to remove the starter when the R. side either -- some say
> different but I've done it several times. MAY have to loosen one end of
> the shock.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 11:29 PM, Bob de Kruyff
> wrote:
>
>> That sounds exactly what is going on Ken, I have a rebuilt asm from years
>> ago but I think I will get an outer joint from Jim. It is overbearingly
> hot
>> here but I think I can get one of my techs to do it while I look on :) I
>> sort of remember that the LH shaft can be wrestled out of there without
>> pulling the knuckle.
>> --
>> Bob de Kruyff
>> 78 Eleganza
>> Chandler, AZ
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report--good and some bad [message #303415 is a reply to message #303412] |
Mon, 11 July 2016 02:48 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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This might help
http://gmcmotorhome.info/bushings.html
On Sunday, July 10, 2016, Bruce Hart wrote:
> For more clearance raise the front end up until tires are off the floor.
> This will allow the inner cv to drop down and enable the shaft to slide
> out.
>
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Ken Henderson >
> wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> With enough jiggling, either side axle can be removed without disturbing
>> the knuckle other than turning it to one side -- which???
>>
>> Don't have to remove the starter when the R. side either -- some say
>> different but I've done it several times. MAY have to loosen one end of
>> the shock.
>>
>> Ken H.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 11:29 PM, Bob de Kruyff >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That sounds exactly what is going on Ken, I have a rebuilt asm from
> years
>>> ago but I think I will get an outer joint from Jim. It is overbearingly
>> hot
>>> here but I think I can get one of my techs to do it while I look on :)
> I
>>> sort of remember that the LH shaft can be wrestled out of there without
>>> pulling the knuckle.
>>> --
>>> Bob de Kruyff
>>> 78 Eleganza
>>> Chandler, AZ
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Hart
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Milliken, Co
> GMC=Got More Class
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Trip report--good and some bad [message #304690 is a reply to message #303363] |
Mon, 01 August 2016 13:21 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Well, I finally got around to replacing the LH outer CV joint. It's been unusually hot here and my already limited enthusiasm gave me lots of excuses to not tackle this. Anyway, it wasn't a bad job and indeed the joint was the culprit. The boot was torn and the joint was relatively dry and lumpy. I can't say it was in really be shape but I'm sure that was the problem since it would lock up at various angles. I'm upset I didn't notice the torn boot earlier. It has probably been torn for quite a while since I don't see any grease thrown around. What surprised me was that the axle nut was finger tight after I removed the cotter pin. The last time it was apart was when Cinnabar replaced the bearings 15 years ago. I ordered 2 joints from Jim so I might as well do the other side, even though that one is probably OK because the boot is fine. I thought I would close the loop and give the final answer on what the vibration problem was.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report--good and some bad [message #304707 is a reply to message #303408] |
Mon, 01 August 2016 18:47 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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I think the left side is easier. My right side CV joint boot has been replaced 3 times now. During the Eastern States rally last spring at Blaine and Diane's terrific GMC service facility, we (I should say I only watched) replaced the RH CV joint (reminds me to send them a replacment). The oil filter had to be removed as well as the shock. After a motor oil facial on one of the volunteer workers, they were able to do the R&R. I don't recall how they did it as I don't recall how I did it the previous time except to say it was a hassle. Oil filter and shock off, but the starter thank goodness stayed in place.
Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 10 July 2016 23:48Bob,
With enough jiggling, either side axle can be removed without disturbing
the knuckle other than turning it to one side -- which???
Don't have to remove the starter when the R. side either -- some say
different but I've done it several times. MAY have to loosen one end of
the shock.
Ken H.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: Trip report--good and some bad [message #304709 is a reply to message #304704] |
Mon, 01 August 2016 19:49 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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hal kading wrote on Mon, 01 August 2016 16:00Bob,
Did you check the tightness of the nut on the other side? Just curious.
Hal Kading 78 Buskirk Las Cruces NM
Not yet Hal since I'll be replacing the RH joint this coming weekend.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trip report--good and some bad [message #304710 is a reply to message #304706] |
Mon, 01 August 2016 19:54 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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bdub wrote on Mon, 01 August 2016 17:37Seems to indicate that that the tightness of that nut isn't that big an
issue.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Hal Kading wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Did you check the tightness of the nut on the other side? Just curious.
>
>
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I wonder about that as well. It has a cotter pin so It can't come off, but I suspect it holds the bearings and spacer together. I was dreading trying to get that nut loose based on other people's experiences. I have no noticeable play in that side's wheel bearings.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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