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| Reaction Arm Install [message #302969] |
Sat, 02 July 2016 18:47  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I got the Applied drum brake reaction arm kit, and started in on the new used coach with it. The first day's pictures are here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6947-reaction-arm.html
If you look at the spindle, you'll see a dark line along the top just inboard of where the bearing sits; and you'll see a bunch of marks the crack emanates from. Somewhere along the line, this thing ate an outer bearing, and whomever repaired it simply put a new bearing in and gave the coach back to the owner. That crack goes all the way around the spindle - a decent lick and it will break off. I ran it 2400 miles like that. There are witness marks on the frame where the wheel got into it, the gouges are easy to spot. The mechanic even ruined the grease cap via ignorance, and 'repaired' it with RTV. I suspect this may have been due to the PPO, the PO used a very reputable GMC shop for repairs and maintenance. Anyhow, I've another spindle and a press plate for the install on the way.
Note the new design reaction arms. They're simpler, and I suspect sturdier than the bar and tube ones with fittings welded on the end. They allow a bit simpler bracket for the center ends as well. The trunnion boxes are also slightly different, they appear both stronger and simpler to manufacture. Now, where fasteners are in shear instead of in tension, self - locking nuts are supplied. All the bolts and all the nuts which are in tension are #8 grade hardened hardware. I will do three (I don't think there's another bad spindle) and then finish the cracked one when the parts arrive.
Keep watching this space.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #302970 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sat, 02 July 2016 19:40  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Johnny Bridges wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 19:47I got the Applied drum brake reaction arm kit, and started in on the new used coach with it. The first day's pictures are here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6947-reaction-arm.html
If you look at the spindle, you'll see a dark line along the top just inboard of where the bearing sits; and you'll see a bunch of marks the crack emanates from. Somewhere along the line, this thing ate an outer bearing, and whomever repaired it simply put a new bearing in and gave the coach back to the owner. That crack goes all the way around the spindle - a decent lick and it will break off. I ran it 2400 miles like that. There are witness marks on the frame where the wheel got into it, the gouges are easy to spot. The mechanic even ruined the grease cap via ignorance, and 'repaired' it with RTV. I suspect this may have been due to the PPO, the PO used a very reputable GMC shop for repairs and maintenance. Anyhow, I've another spindle and a press plate for the install on the way.
Note the new design reaction arms. They're simpler, and I suspect sturdier than the bar and tube ones with fittings welded on the end. They allow a bit simpler bracket for the center ends as well. The trunnion boxes are also slightly different, they appear both stronger and simpler to manufacture. Now, where fasteners are in shear instead of in tension, self - locking nuts are supplied. All the bolts and all the nuts which are in tension are #8 grade hardened hardware. I will do three (I don't think there's another bad spindle) and then finish the cracked one when the parts arrive.
Keep watching this space.
--johnny
Johnny,
Did you know that your guardian angel works nights and weekends before this??
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #302973 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sat, 02 July 2016 20:29 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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The Lord takes care of drunks and crazy people, I'm covered both ways. Plus I've had that wheel come off at speed on the other coach coming home from Bean Station a couple of years ago. Surely nobody would have that kind of bad luck twice in a lifetime.
Seriously, this crack is inboard of the outer bearing, while the other one failed just at the outer edge of the bearing, as did yours. I wonder what the difference was.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #302983 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sun, 03 July 2016 08:31 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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The replacement spindle and a threaded press plate are due here next week. Can someone point me to the pictures/description of how to press the old one out?
Thanks,
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #302999 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sun, 03 July 2016 14:33 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Great catch, Johnny.
Once bitten, twice shy, I say. I think Rob must still have that spindle press in Houston. Looks pretty slick, but he wanted to make it bigger and thicker next time. Not easy to get that dude out, I guess.
Good luck with the reaction arm. I guess this confirms you are sold on it, putting one on your second coach. My coach still has the Leigh Harrison big disc on the leading bogie and it stops with such authority that I want to put a kit on without sacrificing it or the parking brake on the existing rear drums. From what I see, not available. Yet.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #303003 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sun, 03 July 2016 14:56 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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The Harrison kit several of us replaced on Stick Miller's coach had the rear brakes disconnected to preclude skidding, the assumption being that one large disk was sufficient for the back. I don't remember how much space there was between the spindle base abnd the caliper assembly... you might could get a trunnion in there, but it would be a one - off. There's plenty of stopping power in the drums if you can keep the wheels from skidding, which the arm setup does nicely.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #303338 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sat, 09 July 2016 16:13 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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To remove the spindle - a plate with a press out bolt and four attach bolts. Thread the rear of the holes which the brake plate mounts on. Bolt the press plate up nice and solid with an impact wrench. Take your MAPP gas torch and use up about half a cylinder of MAPP gas getting the end of the bogie nice and warm. Using the impact wrench, hammer the spindle out by running the press bolt into it. The 49.95 sale article from Harbor Freight walked it right out onto the concrete using the HF 12 dollar impact sockets.
Take a brush, clean up the new used spindle and the hole in the bogie. Hold the new used spindle in place with four 3/8 bolts, flats, and nuts. Use the impact wrench to pull up diagonal sides a bit at a time till the new used spindle is seated against the bogie.
After that minor contretemps, the reaction arm kit should go on tomorrow. Pictures to follow when it does.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #303353 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sun, 10 July 2016 07:54 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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My experience in the matter has been, yes, it will. BUT, if you don't very carefully center it, the bogie steel will quickly shrink and hold the spindle off center. It's harder to try to rotate it than it is to simply put it in place. The bogie was still warm (it's fairly massive) and the new used spindle was room temp. It slid in more easily than the bad one came out.
I often used your method putting timing gears on VW crankshafts, and after a couple learned to locate the keyway properly.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
[Updated on: Sun, 10 July 2016 07:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #303354 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sun, 10 July 2016 08:05 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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This is the easy top use press plate:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/rear-spindle-tool/p58961-spindle-tool-1c.html
Note that the nuts on the corner bolts are removed for use - the plate pulls flat to the bogie arm. Also, you'll need a 7/16th x 14 pulley tap and a tap handle with an offset bar to thread the holes.
All the hardware is #8 or better. If you have an air drive impact wrench with a bit more poon than the H-F 49.95 special, you could probably skip heating the bogie arm. The H - F lightweight has further use removing and replacing wheels around here.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
[Updated on: Sun, 10 July 2016 08:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #303488 is a reply to message #302969] |
Tue, 12 July 2016 19:14 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I got the trunions and stuff mounted on the side I'm working on, time to clean up and reinstall. Everything torqued up to spec and ready to ride. Cleaned the bearings for the rear of the two wheels, inspected, outer has a scarred place on at least one roller - didn't go any further. Pick up the new bearings in the morning. Sigh. I'll take the short coach to Cleveland, and ferry Puala to the 'formal' meals. Another two days to finish this job. New bearings, rewired dash, stuff I didn't use gone, stuff I wanted that wasn't here installed, off to Salem VA end of the month in style.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
[Updated on: Tue, 12 July 2016 19:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #304042 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sat, 23 July 2016 13:26 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I need a bit of help on the passenger side. I noticed when I jacked the coach and cribbed it, the intermediate wheel was inhabited with Crunch Critters when I spun it. Took the rear hub off, no problems. To the intermediate, not worried cos I have all new bearings. Hub was hanging, I pried it off and found out why - the seal remained on the spindle, captive by the inside bearing which also remained. And wants to stay that way. How do I get it off without trashing the spindle?
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reaction Arm Install [message #304050 is a reply to message #304042] |
Sat, 23 July 2016 15:16 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Johnny,
Have you got a big long-armed gear puller?
Perhaps better would be to remove the spindle, just as you've recently
done, so I presume have the tool for. Then press the spindle out of the
bearing. And hope it didn't spin on there, welding itself and damaging
another spindle.
Good Luck! Too bad you're not closer to me and my press, etc.
Ken H.
On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I need a bit of help on the passenger side. I noticed when I jacked the
> coach and cribbed it, the intermediate wheel was inhabited with Crunch
> Critters when I spun it. Took the rear hub off, no problems. To the
> intermediate, not worried cos I have all new bearings. Hub was hanging, I
> pried
> it off and found out why - the seal remained on the spindle, captive by
> the inside bearing which also remained. And wants to stay that way. How
> do I
> get it off without trashing the spindle?
>
>
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Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #304052 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sat, 23 July 2016 16:17 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I can take it and have it pressed off, if I can't get it off in situ. I just don't wanna have to. Tony Bennett thinks he has a bearing puller that's long enough, I'm gonna measure it and run over to his place tomorrow. If I have to, I can get it off with a Dremel and a diamond cutting wheel. Split it almost to the spindle and then lay into it with a chisel. Rather have it just pull off though.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #304075 is a reply to message #304052] |
Sat, 23 July 2016 21:58 |
Ernest Dankert
Messages: 133
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ogden, New York
Karma: 1
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Becareful doing it this way; I have bearing race shrapnel in my leg from when a race exploded. Went through my jeans....
1977 Eleganza II
Ogden NY
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #304086 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sun, 24 July 2016 07:48 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Doing it which way? Puller or chisel?
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Reaction Arm Install [message #304099 is a reply to message #304096] |
Sun, 24 July 2016 09:49 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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If you go around whacking on hardened bearing races with a chisel, expect
flying chips and wear appropriate protective gear. I usually use a die
grinder with an abrasive cutoff wheel to nearly sever the race. Then, all
it takes is a couple of authoritative whacks with the chisel and hammer to
fracture the hardened race. But be careful not to even touch the spindle
with the cutoff wheel.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jul 24, 2016 7:32 AM, "Matt Colie" wrote:
> Johnny Bridges wrote on Sun, 24 July 2016 08:48
>> Doing it which way? Puller or chisel?
>>
>> --johnny
>
> Johnny,
>
> Look up a tool called a bearing separator or bearing splitter.
>
> These can usually be put behind the bearing and used to pry the inner race
> off the spindle.
>
> Too bad you aren't close enough to borrow mine.
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: Reaction Arm Install [message #304137 is a reply to message #302969] |
Sun, 24 July 2016 15:29 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I got Tony Bennet's puller, I'm gonna go out and give it a try. I'm aware of the danger of beating on hardened steel, I wear glasses. And hang a rag or plastic sack around the item in play for all but the slit being chiseled, mostly to catch the pieces instead of having to hunt them down. With any luck at all, the puller will get the thing off instead of disassembling it.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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