Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » timing chain (what parts and should it be advanced)
| timing chain [message #301832] |
Wed, 08 June 2016 10:41  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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contemplating diving into a timing chain replacement. I do not know the history of my engine, and if it is original, it is about time for the chain to be replaced, and I have had some questionable power concerns lately, and a new timing chain would take one item out of my mind as to a culprit. I may end up pulling the fuel pump and checking the chain prior to doing the job, but timing is always a bugger, so I might order the parts, in case when I check I find fault.
Anyway - lots say double roller, and I might go that way, but I see no fault in a single OEM type replacement. What is the part number or the chain to buy? I know I could go to applied and I might in the end, but looking to possibly source locally in case I decide to dive in saturday.
Second question, I have read some people discuss about advancing it 4 degrees. Pro's/Con's/experience with that? I am normally Keep it stock and simple type guy, and I am not sure I am willing to do that, but I am curious about that option.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: timing chain [message #301834 is a reply to message #301832] |
Wed, 08 June 2016 10:54  |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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I wouldn't get a bone stock chain set as it has a plastic tooth gear and is only straight up. If you go on the cheap rock auto is a good place to get it. I would get a cloyes true roller chain from summit racing and set it 4 degrees advance. It's probably not the original in a 40 year old motor home unless it set for many years. A lot of work to save a few bucks isn't worth your time.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: timing chain [message #301835 is a reply to message #301834] |
Wed, 08 June 2016 11:03 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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was not really thinking stock-stock. Was seeing a coyes that looked to be a single roller chain, and then now i find a true double roller chain, and is probably what i should go with.
Cloyes 9-1113 Street True Roller Set
or comp cams??
COMP Cams 3113 Hi-Tech Race Roller Timing Set for Oldsmobile V8
that seems to be what is carried locally.
Also trying to figure out what else I need. I am guessing I need to get the timing chain set. Then a gasket kit is separate or with the kit?
I already have a new water pump to install(another reason I am thinking it is timing chain time). Everything else up front I think is in good shape(hoses, belts, power steering pump/alternator).
still wondering about the pros and the cons of setting it 4 degrees advanced.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: timing chain [message #301855 is a reply to message #301835] |
Wed, 08 June 2016 13:19 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Jon,
When I did mine about 30,000 miles ago, I used a Cloyes double Roller chain that I got from Jim K. Depending on how many miles you have on your engine, or should I say how many miles you think you have LEFT on your engine, it might not be worth the extra expense. I good quality single chain with a steel gear set should last 50 - 60,000 miles, or until rebuild time. On the other hand, a true roller chain set is not dramatically more expensive and will for sure last as long as you need it to.
I asked the question about advancing the cam timing when I did mine and never got a definitive answer, so I put it in straight up. If I were doing it over again (I was new to the group back then) I would probably call Dick Paterson and get that advice straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] timing chain [message #301857 is a reply to message #301855] |
Wed, 08 June 2016 13:32 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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On advancing the timing chain, 4° advance will move the torque that you
already have, down the rpm band a bit. Retarding it 4° will have the
opposite effect. Your original chain is undoubtedly stretched at least that
much, which will have the same effect as retarding it. The sloppy chain
will also have the effect of poor ignition timing to accompany poor valve
timing. So, a new tight chain, either roller or hy-vo, will clean up the
slop. It will not do much for performance if you have worn rings and low
compression. Jus' sayin'.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jun 8, 2016 11:20 AM, "Carl Stouffer" wrote:
> Jon,
>
> When I did mine about 30,000 miles ago, I used a Cloyes double Roller
> chain that I got from Jim K. Depending on how many miles you have on your
> engine, or should I say how many miles you think you have LEFT on your
> engine, it might not be worth the extra expense. I good quality single
> chain
> with a steel gear set should last 50 - 60,000 miles, or until rebuild
> time. On the other hand, a true roller chain set is not dramatically more
> expensive and will for sure last as long as you need it to.
>
> I asked the question about advancing the cam timing when I did mine and
> never got a definitive answer, so I put it in straight up. If I were doing
> it
> over again (I was new to the group back then) I would probably call Dick
> Paterson and get that advice straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: timing chain [message #301859 is a reply to message #301832] |
Wed, 08 June 2016 13:47 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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I have avoided doing a compression test, ect... because what I don't know is sometimes a good thing. I don't think the engine is in bad shape, just because it does run out smooth, not smoking or eating oil up. Odometer is 77,000 now, and i think by the condition of the rest of the coach, pedals, ect... I believe that to be correct and not rolled over to 177,000. Also condition of the original ball riveted ball joints that used to be on the coach, points to 77k, not 177. My belief is that about 15-20 years ago (10-15 years before I picked up the coach), someone reupholstered, painted and cosmetically fixed up the coach. the like new dry rotted tires dated to about that same time. No idea if they did anything at all to the drivetrain, and if they did, they kept it pretty original.
But the fact that it runs well, does not smoke or suck oil, makes me wonder if it is truely a 40 year old engine.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] timing chain [message #301863 is a reply to message #301859] |
Wed, 08 June 2016 14:15 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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I know this is apples and oranges, but, the engine in my coach is a
unmolested 403 with 125, 000 miles on it. I drive it 70 -75 mph with 3:70
gearing on the West Coast most of the time. It uses a qt of 20-50 in
1500-2000 miles. It still checks compression in the 155 - 160 psi range
with no uneven cylinders. I am not about to mess with that level of
performance until it forces me to. Kinda like " if it ain't broke, don't go
fixin' on it". Your experience might vary.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jun 8, 2016 11:53 AM, "Jon Roche" wrote:
> I have avoided doing a compression test, ect... because what I don't know
> is sometimes a good thing. I don't think the engine is in bad shape, just
> because it does run out smooth, not smoking or eating oil up. Odometer
> is 77,000 now, and i think by the condition of the rest of the coach,
> pedals,
> ect... I believe that to be correct and not rolled over to 177,000. Also
> condition of the original ball riveted ball joints that used to be on the
> coach, points to 77k, not 177. My belief is that about 15-20 years ago
> (10-15 years before I picked up the coach), someone reupholstered, painted
> and cosmetically fixed up the coach. the like new dry rotted tires dated
> to about that same time. No idea if they did anything at all to the
> drivetrain, and if they did, they kept it pretty original.
>
> But the fact that it runs well, does not smoke or suck oil, makes me
> wonder if it is truely a 40 year old engine.
>
>
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: timing chain [message #301912 is a reply to message #301832] |
Thu, 09 June 2016 13:20 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Agree with what James Huppy says about advancing.
I would add for anyone contemplating doing this with an other than stock cam: check your timing card for the intake centerline [as opposed t the lobe separation angle] and compare it to the stock centerline [not sure what it is on Olds]
Many aftermarket cams already have a built in advance
Also, although most cams for our applications don't have that much lift, advancing the cam decreases the piston to valve clearance. Learned that the hard way years ago.
76 Glenbrook
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