Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » water heater switch (water heater switch)
| water heater switch [message #300021] |
Mon, 02 May 2016 10:05  |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
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On a standard GM floorplan with the electric water heater, does anyone know if the original switch in the electrical cabinet, switch plus outlet, is SPST ? I'm away from the coach but I want to order a mechanical timer to put on it. I can't remember if it is SPST or not. My memory is each side of the switch has a + and then there are pig tailed - in the back with one wire to the switch.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater switch [message #300028 is a reply to message #300021] |
Mon, 02 May 2016 11:10  |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
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There is nothing special about the switch. It is the same as a switch controlling a light. A single pole, single throw. A hot lead goes to one side of the switch and the other side of the switch leads to the water heater.
Most have a receptacle built into the switch into which you can plug something but the receptacle is not controlled by the switch. It is hot all the time.
So, you can easily replace the switch with a timer just put it in series with the wires that currently go to both sides of the switch.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On May 2, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Jeremy wrote:
>
> On a standard GM floorplan with the electric water heater, does anyone know if the original switch in the electrical cabinet, switch plus outlet, is
> SPST ? I'm away from the coach but I want to order a mechanical timer to put on it. I can't remember if it is SPST or not. My memory is each side of
> the switch has a + and then there are pig tailed - in the back with one wire to the switch.
> --
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Knezek
> 1976 Glenbrook
> Birmingham, AL
>
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| Re: water heater switch [message #300031 is a reply to message #300021] |
Mon, 02 May 2016 11:40 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Keep in mind a one space timer will delete your place to plug in the convertor (typical GMC upfit config) you can piggy back a single box to the side of the existing box back to side. The hot and neutral would go to the duplex and hot to the timer and on to the water heater. I m assuming you want the wind up style mechanical unit that needs no neutral. Bonus is you now have one more convienience outlet hole.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: water heater switch [message #300039 is a reply to message #300021] |
Mon, 02 May 2016 13:23 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
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Thanks all. I ordered an SPST spring wound 1 hour timer good for 20 amps. I'm going to remove the switch since I don't need it or the outlet and wire in just the timer.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Onan Generator, was water heater switch [message #300270 is a reply to message #300021] |
Sun, 08 May 2016 13:05 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
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Well... my SPST water heater timer caused a problem. I pigtailed my hots, ran them in one side. Ran the neutral out the other. Then, because I was prepping to go next weekend, I fired up my generator and flipped breakers to put some load on it. That quickly turned off all the AC in the coach, though the Onan kept running just fine. Flipped the breakers, shut off the Onan. Plugged into shore power. Turned breakers one at a time, got to the water heater, blew the house circuit. Something ain't right.
Removed the water heater timer, reinstalled the old switch, flipped breakers, all electric is just fine. Plugged in to Onan, fired up generator just fine... no generator output. I'm assuming I either killed the useless 50 amp circuit breaker on the generator with whatever my wiring screw up was, or killed the bridge rectifier. Since it's Sunday I'm unlikely to get either part today, though I can get Amazon to send me both (more or less, the rectifier obviously has the wrong pins) by Tuesday or go hunting for an electrical supply shop that will have one or the other.
Any thoughts on which is most likely the problem? I want to replace the orig 50 amp circuit breaker on the Onan anyway with a non-push button, but I'd prefer not to mess with the rectifier if I don't have to. Any good way of testing?
We need to be in S. Georgia next week to meet my parents, I'd sure hate to have to make that trip with no AC. My kids and wife might kill me.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Generator, was water heater switch [message #300271 is a reply to message #300270] |
Sun, 08 May 2016 13:10 |
bdub
Messages: 1578
Registered: February 2004
Location: Central Texas
Karma: 5
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There is a breaker on the Onan itself. Might that be thrown?
On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Jeremy wrote:
> Well... my SPST water heater timer caused a problem. I pigtailed my hots,
> ran them in one side. Ran the neutral out the other. Then, because I was
> prepping to go next weekend, I fired up my generator and flipped breakers
> to put some load on it. That quickly turned off all the AC in the coach,
> though the Onan kept running just fine. Flipped the breakers, shut off the
> Onan. Plugged into shore power. Turned breakers one at a time, got to the
> water heater, blew the house circuit. Something ain't right.
>
> Removed the water heater timer, reinstalled the old switch, flipped
> breakers, all electric is just fine. Plugged in to Onan, fired up generator
> just
> fine... no generator output. I'm assuming I either killed the useless 50
> amp circuit breaker on the generator with whatever my wiring screw up was,
> or
> killed the bridge rectifier. Since it's Sunday I'm unlikely to get either
> part today, though I can get Amazon to send me both (more or less, the
> rectifier obviously has the wrong pins) by Tuesday or go hunting for an
> electrical supply shop that will have one or the other.
>
> Any thoughts on which is most likely the problem? I want to replace the
> orig 50 amp circuit breaker on the Onan anyway with a non-push button, but
> I'd
> prefer not to mess with the rectifier if I don't have to. Any good way of
> testing?
>
> We need to be in S. Georgia next week to meet my parents, I'd sure hate to
> have to make that trip with no AC. My kids and wife might kill me.
> --
> Thanks,
> Jeremy Knezek
> 1976 Glenbrook
> Birmingham, AL
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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bdub
'76 Palm Beach/Central Texas
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| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Generator, was water heater switch [message #300272 is a reply to message #300271] |
Sun, 08 May 2016 13:53 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
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bdub wrote on Sun, 08 May 2016 14:10There is a breaker on the Onan itself. Might that be thrown?
If you are talking about the little push button then it could be, but there is no resistance when pushing the button to reset. So I'm assuming the breaker is shot, maybe open if my wiring mishap destroyed it, maybe closed if it's been that way for a long time and I destroyed something else because the breaker didn't trip. I don't know. I'm replacing that breaker regardless. I suppose I could just jump around it and see if I get power, but I really hate the idea of doing something like that...
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: water heater switch [message #300280 is a reply to message #300278] |
Sun, 08 May 2016 17:10 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
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kingd wrote on Sun, 08 May 2016 17:53Please explain in more detail how you connected the new
Swich. THANKS
Well, the old switch was wired one hot on either side of the switch, one in, one out. Out energized by flipping the switch. Neutral from the outlet. I pigtailed the two hots together, ran the same gauge into the timer. Neutral from the bottom. Seemed pretty simple to me. Clearly I'm an electrical idiot because I'm guessing I should have run one hot into the top, one hot out the bottom, and just left the neutrals all tied together away from the switch, same with the grounds.
Fortunately I didn't do much, if any damage, to the wiring in the coach because it all works on shore power now that I've put the switch back in the way it was originally. That's how I know the issue is somewhere in the genny.
In this case, luck favored the fool somewhat.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater switch [message #300289 is a reply to message #300280] |
Sun, 08 May 2016 18:10 |
bdub
Messages: 1578
Registered: February 2004
Location: Central Texas
Karma: 5
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I think all that shoulda happened with that hookup was that the water heater would've been hot at all times. Shouldn't have hurt
anything if the tank had water in it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2016 5:10 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
kingd wrote on Sun, 08 May 2016 17:53
> Please explain in more detail how you connected the new
> Swich. THANKS
Well, the old switch was wired one hot on either side of the switch, one in, one out. Out energized by flipping the switch. Neutral
from the outlet. I
pigtailed the two hots together, ran the same gauge into the timer. Neutral from the bottom. Seemed pretty simple to me. Clearly I'm
an electrical
idiot because I'm guessing I should have run one hot into the top, one hot out the bottom, and just left the neutrals all tied
together away from the
switch, same with the grounds.
Fortunately I didn't do much, if any damage, to the wiring in the coach because it all works on shore power now that I've put the
switch back in the
way it was originally. That's how I know the issue is somewhere in the genny.
In this case, luck favored the fool somewhat.
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bdub
'76 Palm Beach/Central Texas
www.bdub.net
www.gmcmhphotos.com
www.gmcmotorhomemarketplace.com
www.gmcmhregistry.com
www.facebook.com/groups/classicgmcmotorhomes
www.facebook.com/groups/gmcmm
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater switch [message #300291 is a reply to message #300289] |
Sun, 08 May 2016 18:30 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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bdub wrote on Sun, 08 May 2016 19:10I think all that shoulda happened with that hookup was that the water heater would've been hot at all times. Shouldn't have hurt
anything if the tank had water in it.
I agree. Right up until the moment when I tested the water heater timer. Then I sent hot down the neutral when the internal switch closed. That's when the 120 in the coach quit coming in from the genny and the genny hasn't sent any since. So when I did that, I tripped something in the genny. Odd that I didn't trip the breaker in the coach.
New rectifier and new genny 50 amp circuit breaker should be here Tues night (thanks Amazon Prime) and I'll put them in Wed and see if I get some juice flowing again. Very irritated at myself. Just wasn't paying enough attention.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: water heater switch [message #300293 is a reply to message #300021] |
Sun, 08 May 2016 19:31 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Use a meter and meter the line side of the Onan breaker to chasis. If you have 120V your bridge is OK. You can also use continuity on meter to test the old sw/outlet combo on the bench. Some have the terminal orientation different than expected. The neutral there is for the outlet only and any passthrough. You must have wired a hot to the neutral
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Generator, was water heater switch [message #300318 is a reply to message #300314] |
Mon, 09 May 2016 07:34 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Jim Miller wrote on Mon, 09 May 2016 07:06
That device is intended for DC loads and it may not behave properly on the AC output of the Onan. It even says "24VDC" on the side but does not mention an AC rating - probably because it is not intended for AC service.
Uggh. Good catch. Thanks.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Generator, was water heater switch [message #300333 is a reply to message #300331] |
Mon, 09 May 2016 11:06 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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k2gkk wrote on Mon, 09 May 2016 11:45Remember that AC switches polarity and a DC rated relay
will probably TRY to keep up and therefore chatter and
NEVER make a permanent switch of condition!
Thanks. I just cancelled the purchase and ordered an AC version. I have no desire to have the wrong part when it is fairly simple to get the correct one. Appreciate the help.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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I would go with single pole and have a continuous return. Then you could get a double pole switch and have a spare set of contacts(maybe, depends on how the timer is built). Or, just get the double pole switch and you will be covered either way. You will still have to tap into the return line to power the timer, unless it is a spring wound type.
