Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » TZE166V902114 the odd number project.
Re: [GMCnet] TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292554 is a reply to message #292524] |
Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505 Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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I can tell you that here in Quebec, where vehicle theft and illegal VIN rebadging were quite common right into the late 90s. Your coach would never pass the required MOT inspection to get it legally licensed and driveable. The biggest flag would be the Xed out VIN, which would require a legal document to explain when and why it was altered. The next flag would be the '73 numbers not matching the '76 title. Upon presenting your coach for inspection here, it would be seized by the law officials and you would have a big fight to get it back. Any time or money you have invested into the coach might be lost if it was determined that the coach was indeed stolen and the affected insurance company wanted to take back the coach.
Even if it was not stolen, the red tape required to clear the title due to the questionable VIN alteration would be a major PITA.
I would assume that Quebec is not the only region of NA where there is a low tolerance for these sorts of VIN anomalies. I do know that even if you are just passing through Quebec as a tourist. If you get stopped by an overly curious cop that notices something unusual with your vehicle ID, there is a high risk of having it seized and submitted for investigation. You would have no legal recourse for any incurred expenses due to the inconvenience. The actual likelihood of this happening is very low, but it is possible.
For the above reasons, I would have only considered the coach as a parts vehicle. I would have never considered investing a red cent into rebuilding it for road service.
For someone who is overly cautious about sharing their identity, you are much less concerned about the risks surrounding a questionable VIN that will raise flags with any MOT/DOT inspector. You have a lot of faith to think they will look the other way. Hopefully you are well prepared with documented facts to support your efforts.
If your coach did indeed leave the factory with an altered VIN, I would think that GM would have issued a document explaining/justifying the anomaly. I as the original purchasing customer would want such a document as proof that I am in the clear should the issue be disputed later on.
I am extremely interested in your progress regarding these issues. I've had several close friends here in Quebec that were victims of VIN fraud. I've seen how the VINs were altered on their vehicles, and yours would a sloppy example in comparision.
Wishing you the best success with your coach.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
The EWIP (Eternal Work In Progress)
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Re: TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292561 is a reply to message #291212] |
Sun, 20 December 2015 11:35 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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It's easy to overlook the fact that you're in a different country with different laws in Canada when you visit there, unless you're in Quebec. Here, it's a hassle but the coach can be titled with what's on it. Much the same as with a salvage vehicle. I suspect there's a way in Canada, but I think asking ahead of time would be the move.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292566 is a reply to message #292565] |
Sun, 20 December 2015 15:03 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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And when I brought my 1988 Harley-Davidson back into Texas it also had to be inspected by a law enforcement officer because the Hong
Kong authorities had messed up the VIN on the Hong Kong registration. I had all the documentation from when it was shipped out of
the USA including the Connecticut title it left on.
The law enforcement officer there checked the number on the frame AND the number on the engine case because on a 1988
Harley-Davidson Heritage Softail the number on the engine case makes up part of the number on the frame.
Law enforcement officers in Texas do their job properly!
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
-----Original Message-----
From: A.
When a used vehicle is brought into the state of Alabama by a private buyer, there is a form that has to be completed and the VIN
verified by a law enforcement officer. When the county sheriff came by to verify my CanyonLands and sign the form, he was intrigued
by the GMC itself and walked around it and I gave him a quick tour of the inside. He sat down in the driver's seat and we were
talking and he got a call on the radio that he had to respond to. He saw the sticker next to his left knee with the VIN, signed the
form, and drove off. I had the passenger side hood open so he could use the VIN plate on the firewall for verification, but he never
even looked at it.
--
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: [GMCnet] TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292567 is a reply to message #292566] |
Sun, 20 December 2015 16:20 |
77PBFinland
Messages: 31 Registered: March 2014 Location: Finland
Karma: 1
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Hello!
I have found hidden factory made vin stamps in couple of our USA cars and trucks.
B-body Roadmaster wagon has one in upside of frame, 80´s Camaro had one in firewall under heater and one in trunk area, full size Jeep had one in rear of frame.
Haven´t lookin for it in our coach yet, but ain´t there any in GMC´s frame?
Jake
Jarkko Lampinen
`77 Palm Beach TZE167V100508
Finland Europe
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Re: [GMCnet] TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292575 is a reply to message #292554] |
Sun, 20 December 2015 18:52 |
Anonymous
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hi Les Burt[1],
I can apreciate your concern for your fellow man, however, this one is not under those same illusions but your post does point out some of the things that I might can help shed at least some light on.
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]Your coach would never pass the required MOT inspection to get it legally licensed and driveable.
is that a legal determination and if so, doesnt that require a license? what makes you think it would be required and that all men are obligated?
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]
The biggest flag would be the Xed out VIN, which would require a legal document to explain when and why it was altered.
see above
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]
The next flag would be the '73 numbers not matching the '76 title.
the title numbers match, I wrote them myself. oh you mean legal title not lawful. nevermind
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]
Upon presenting your coach for inspection here, it would be seized by the law officials
seems to me that land up there is also a common law land, is it not? are you saying a man can take another mans property? surely not, but I guess if a man doesnt know he is a man and thinks he is something other than a man, I can see how that might happen, especially when the aggressor AKA "law official" doesnt know who he really is either (a man) happens all the time.
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]
and you would have a big fight to get it back. Any time or money you have invested into the coach might be lost if it was determined that the coach was indeed stolen and the affected insurance company wanted to take back the coach.
only a man can make that claim I see an insurance company (any corporation actually) as a dead corpse (corporation) unable to take the witness stand and make a verifiable claim (viva voce) a man or woman could act as an agent, sure but two wrongs dont make a right now does it? I seriously doubt they would want to cause a real man a harm, loss, or injury.
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]
Even if it was not stolen, the red tape required to clear the title due to the questionable VIN alteration would be a major PITA.
like I said, any man can make a claim but proving that is a whole nother level.
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]
I would assume that Quebec is not the only region of NA where there is a low tolerance for these sorts of VIN anomalies. I do know that even if you are just passing through Quebec as a tourist. If you get stopped by an overly curious cop that notices something unusual with your vehicle ID, there is a high risk of having it seized and submitted for investigation. You would have no legal recourse for any incurred expenses due to the inconvenience. The actual likelihood of this happening is very low, but it is possible.
lots of people assume and even presume lots of things dont they?
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]
For the above reasons, I would have only considered the coach as a parts vehicle. I would have never considered investing a red cent into rebuilding it for road service.
youre probably not alone in that consideration, prior to a significant amount of law study (and more to continue), I would have thought the same.
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]
For someone who is overly cautious about sharing their identity, you are much less concerned about the risks surrounding a questionable VIN that will raise flags with any MOT/DOT inspector. You have a lot of faith to think they will look the other way. Hopefully you are well prepared with documented facts to support your efforts.
I prefer knowledge instead of faith for these type of things. I dont need the facts brother, Im wont be the one making the claim. Ive got the truth though.
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]
If your coach did indeed leave the factory with an altered VIN, I would think that GM would have issued a document explaining/justifying the anomaly. I as the original purchasing customer would want such a document as proof that I am in the clear should the issue be disputed later on.
if something leaves the factory with a certain V.I.N. number then how would that be altered?
Les Burt[1 wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 10:52]
I am extremely interested in your progress regarding these issues. I've had several close friends here in Quebec that were victims of VIN fraud. I've seen how the VINs were altered on their vehicles, and yours would a sloppy example in comparision.
Wishing you the best success with your coach.
I suppose anything is possible. please dont take anything I said personal because it aint meant that way, what we have is a massive worldwide identity crisis, I could tell you more but Im not sure you or the others here are ready.
thanks for the well wishes and all the best to you and yours also!
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Re: [GMCnet] TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292589 is a reply to message #292567] |
Mon, 21 December 2015 01:05 |
Anonymous
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77PBFinland wrote on Sun, 20 December 2015 16:20Hello!
I have found hidden factory made vin stamps in couple of our USA cars and trucks.
B-body Roadmaster wagon has one in upside of frame, 80´s Camaro had one in firewall under heater and one in trunk area, full size Jeep had one in rear of frame.
Haven´t lookin for it in our coach yet, but ain´t there any in GMC´s frame?
Jake
hi PBFinland,
X-ray vision or a nice toolbox there. If I find more numbers I will post them.
thanks
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Re: [GMCnet] TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292652 is a reply to message #292596] |
Mon, 21 December 2015 16:47 |
Anonymous
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hi all,
kicking around some ideas.. a mini-split A/C for one. did a search here and found some other mentions also but no implementations on the GMCs and havnt found any yet either on other MHs only travel trailers.
I want to have more roof space so that I can build a solid yakima style rack system for a modular upstairs patio among other things.
a roof hatch or large removable sunroof for access to the roof from inside.
some ideas for the back hatch.. a two piece rear glass that opens like an SUV back glass (single piece would too large for this) or maybe even van style cargo doors but might haft save that idea for the next one, hopefully the right transmode will become available for some extreme customizations at some point.
a rear sub-frame extension made to support a rather large aluminum box that fits between the tail lights and up to just below the rear window. not sure what type of lid or doors but want move the propane into there and have lots more of storage space. a nice built in receiver hitch.
Darryl Morris wrote on Mon, 21 December 2015 04:30As for me and my house, I'm sailing away...
Get this clutter off my IPad..
Tooooo some, rules are more important than good ideas..
Anchors away...
thats some good stuff! if you dont like nekkid pictures of GMCs, whats the matter with you?
rule?, is it not written?
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Re: TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292659 is a reply to message #291212] |
Mon, 21 December 2015 17:02 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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The A6 compressor and fitted condenser are capable of running another evaporator easily - plumb one up like the late 80s Suburbans. Simple y pipe, no fancy valves needed. Find a Suburban or van with the rear air option at the men's mall and about all you need to do is get the local hose company to make you up a pair of hoses of appropriate length. Several folks have added back doors in place of the back panel. Windows are easy, there's probably one on a pickup that will fit without a lot of fussing. If I were gonna fit a roof sitting space (I'm not) I'd carry the load bearing risers down to the frame. The body isn't designed to handle much weight and will spread. To a degree, they spread a bit anyway in normal use over the decades. There are several designs for cargo carriers n the rear. Some extend the bumper, some fit a hitch and sit behind it.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292672 is a reply to message #292659] |
Mon, 21 December 2015 17:31 |
Anonymous
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hi Johnny,
that should work great for driving but I was thinking to replace the roof A/Cs with. maybe a residential unit with some mods. Ive read that the pre-charged units with pre-charged lines can have sealing issues in the plumbing in a residential application.
on the back glass, I'd like to keep the same OEM outline/shape for the nice appearance, the glass is flat so it shouldnt be too big of a deal.
on the roof, just looking at the OEM construction of it, I think it should be fine for a couple of adults and kids if tied into the structure well enough but your thoughts about side reinforcement are worth considering. maybe something modular there aswell just for when the patio platform is used to be sure. I'll check into the flexing thats going on with one or two average size adults first and see what I find.
thanks for the input. hope you and your have a good one.
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Re: [GMCnet] TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292681 is a reply to message #292674] |
Mon, 21 December 2015 18:07 |
Jp Benson
Messages: 649 Registered: October 2011 Location: Fla
Karma: 2
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There's laws about them sort of thing...
ANSI A119.2/NFPA 1192 STANDARD ON RECREATIONAL VEHICLES (1999 Edition)
2-2.3 Location of LP-Gas Containers. LP-Gas containers shall be in accordance with the following:
(a) LP-Gas containers shall not be installed nor shall provisions be made for installing or storing any LP-Gas containers, even temporarily, inside any recreational vehicle. Containers shall not be mounted on the exterior of the rear wall or the rear bumper of the vehicle.
Exception: New LP-Gas cylinders that have never contained LP-Gas supplied as original equipment, shall be permitted to be transported inside the vehicle.
(b) LP-Gas containers with their control valves shall be installed in compliance with one of the following:
(1) In a recess or compartment other than the roof that is vaportight to the inside of the recreational vehicle.
(3) Tanks mounted on the chassis or to the floor of a motor home or chassis-mount camper, provided neither the tank or its support is located in front of the front axle. Tanks mounted between the front and rear axle shall be installed with as much road clearance as practical but not lower than the front axle height. Tanks mounted behind the rear axle of a motor home or chassis-mount camper shall be installed in such a manner that the bottom of the tank and any connection thereto shall not be lower than either the rear axle (excluding the differential) or any section of the frame immediately to the rear of the tank, whichever is higher. All clearances shall be determined from the bottom of the tank or from the lowest fitting, support, or attachment on the tank or tank housing, which ever is lower when all axles are loaded to their gross axles weight rating.
No, I'm not an attorney but I did sleep with one last night.
JP
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Re: TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292682 is a reply to message #291212] |
Mon, 21 December 2015 18:12 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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We put a couple of Mitsubishi split systems in some temp studios a while back. In that service they worked well, hooking the precharged lines wasn't a problem. They might of spit a gram or two of refrigerant out at connecting, but held up well thereafter. I wouldn't use that kind of system in a coach for several reasons. They're relatively heavy. They're bulky, both outside unit and the evaporator. In a space limited environment (GMC) they take too much room. They aren't as tolerant of poor power as the RV units (Take a look inside one - there are several tricks played to make it tolerate sagging or blooming voltage without damage. There are also some you can't see.) They won't be as tolerant of vibration either. Their benefit is, they're quiet. They're probably a bit more efficient than the RV units, but that's not really a concern in RV use. My thought is, the time and effort would be better spent ducting one ot two of the roof mount units, which ought to shut it up considerably - noise being the only real drawback to them. A bit of thought and finagling should produce ductwork which fits in the ceiling of a GMC.. or at least is very wide and not greatly deep.
These coaches spread with only the weight of the roof itself over time. Increase that, they will spread more. With the walls out, I can see where one might take either of two approaches. Some curved stanchions in the walls - I'd do three to a side - could be carried through the floor directly to the coach frame. Alternatively, careful placement would allow straight ones to run up through the cabinetry at the wall. Put about a 4x4 inch block on top bandsawed or milled to match the roof curve. Then on the outside do the same with your 'patio' supports, and through - bolt these pads. Now you've got the load carried through to the frame and as an added benefit, you've support holding the roof up if you crossbolt the stanchion to the roof ribs. No more spread at all at this point.
The weight of the patio is to a degree going to affect the coach's handling, the amount of affect related to the weight of the stuff and how high above the roof you raise it. It'll look cool as hell, though.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292692 is a reply to message #292681] |
Mon, 21 December 2015 20:30 |
Anonymous
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Jp Benson wrote on Mon, 21 December 2015 18:07There's laws about them sort of thing...
No, I'm not an attorney but I did sleep with one last night.
JP
hi JP,
if I didnt know any better, I'd probably swear by it! it does appear to have the color of law, and the possibility to even the force of law unless that presumption was properly rebutted I guess.
I think it might be some sort of code? a codified law maybe? encrypted? just glad I no longer have a need to decrypt that stuff.
I used to *think* I could read that stuff too but I cant read chinese, much less this legalese. TBH, Im not aware of any law that even requires a man to read at all.
I'll stick to common law for the most part but thanks for bringing that up, it would seem to make sense and something Ive actually thought about as well but Im certainly not authorized to interpret the codes of a legal society or agents of a foreign principle. in fact Ive found it better to not even try it.
maybe you can find the other ones that resemble law and of the correct time period about the V.I.N. plates too? that would be most interesting for the group I think.
if your sleeping partner also has a leviathan black robe, they might even under-stand what I just wrote.
magi's gonna magi straight I suppose. word
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Re: [GMCnet] TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292693 is a reply to message #292674] |
Mon, 21 December 2015 20:31 |
Anonymous
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A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 21 December 2015 17:361gmcmh wrote on Mon, 21 December 2015 16:47...kicking around some ideas.. a rear sub-frame extension made to support a rather large aluminum box that fits between the tail lights and up to just below the rear window. not sure what type of lid or doors but want move the propane into there and have lots more of storage space. ... I took one off and threw the support stuff away, it was so ugly. I took the box apart for the metal. It was galvanized steel, not aluminum.
hi A Hamilto,
that box roughly the height and depth Im considering but want a full width and yeah, without at least matching paint it would be ugly.
thanks
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Re: TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292694 is a reply to message #292682] |
Mon, 21 December 2015 20:39 |
Anonymous
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Johnny Bridges wrote on Mon, 21 December 2015 18:12We put a couple of Mitsubishi split systems in some temp studios a while back. In that service they worked well, hooking the precharged lines wasn't a problem. They might of spit a gram or two of refrigerant out at connecting, but held up well thereafter. I wouldn't use that kind of system in a coach for several reasons. They're relatively heavy. They're bulky, both outside unit and the evaporator. In a space limited environment (GMC) they take too much room. They aren't as tolerant of poor power as the RV units (Take a look inside one - there are several tricks played to make it tolerate sagging or blooming voltage without damage. There are also some you can't see.) They won't be as tolerant of vibration either. Their benefit is, they're quiet. They're probably a bit more efficient than the RV units, but that's not really a concern in RV use. My thought is, the time and effort would be better spent ducting one ot two of the roof mount units, which ought to shut it up considerably - noise being the only real drawback to them. A bit of thought and finagling should produce ductwork which fits in the ceiling of a GMC.. or at least is very wide and not greatly deep.
These coaches spread with only the weight of the roof itself over time. Increase that, they will spread more. With the walls out, I can see where one might take either of two approaches. Some curved stanchions in the walls - I'd do three to a side - could be carried through the floor directly to the coach frame. Alternatively, careful placement would allow straight ones to run up through the cabinetry at the wall. Put about a 4x4 inch block on top bandsawed or milled to match the roof curve. Then on the outside do the same with your 'patio' supports, and through - bolt these pads. Now you've got the load carried through to the frame and as an added benefit, you've support holding the roof up if you crossbolt the stanchion to the roof ribs. No more spread at all at this point.
The weight of the patio is to a degree going to affect the coach's handling, the amount of affect related to the weight of the stuff and how high above the roof you raise it. It'll look cool as hell, though.
--johnny
you have provided me with alot to consider on the mini-split. yes, quiet and very efficient too.
on the patio, my idea is for it to be modular as in removable so only there while stationed. I could work around the roof A/C on it but also want the max amount of solar panels on the roof. they will lay just under the top of the racks so that the racks can still be used but also thinking about using larger panels hinged at the top hanging off the sides so that when they are up it will double as awnings.
thanks again
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Re: [GMCnet] TZE166V902114 the odd number project. [message #292717 is a reply to message #292692] |
Tue, 22 December 2015 08:50 |
Jp Benson
Messages: 649 Registered: October 2011 Location: Fla
Karma: 2
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Anonymous wrote on Mon, 21 December 2015 20:30Jp Benson wrote on Mon, 21 December 2015 18:07There's laws about them sort of thing...
No, I'm not an attorney but I did sleep with one last night.
JP
hi JP,
if I didnt know any better, I'd probably swear by it! it does appear to have the color of law, and the possibility to even the force of law unless that presumption was properly rebutted I guess.
I think it might be some sort of code? a codified law maybe? encrypted? just glad I no longer have a need to decrypt that stuff.
I used to *think* I could read that stuff too but I cant read chinese, much less this legalese. TBH, Im not aware of any law that even requires a man to read at all.
I'll stick to common law for the most part but thanks for bringing that up, it would seem to make sense and something Ive actually thought about as well but Im certainly not authorized to interpret the codes of a legal society or agents of a foreign principle. in fact Ive found it better to not even try it.
maybe you can find the other ones that resemble law and of the correct time period about the V.I.N. plates too? that would be most interesting for the group I think.
if your sleeping partner also has a leviathan black robe, they might even under-stand what I just wrote.
magi's gonna magi straight I suppose. word
ANSI A119.2/NFPA 1192 is a set of standards designed by the NFPA, adopted by ANSI and conformed to by the RV manufacturing industry. Not only for public safety but also (in the case of rear bumper mounted propane cylinders) to keep attorneys out of their wallets when rear end collisions occur.
It's a topic on forums where folks make RV's out of old school buses, box trucks etc. I've read on those forums that many states have adopted ANSI A119.2/NFPA 1192 as part of their statutes for RV's.
I can't be much help on the VIN issue. Tried some tricks in photoshop but it didn't do much. Abandoned vehicles can be titled but I don't know the details.
Good luck with that one.
JP
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